Re: Driver's fees up 50%. Let's Unionize!

Huh, when I read it this morning I must have still been groggy because I took it to mean the license fees were increasing. But I just checked our status page for the next race and it wants me to pay $1150! $50 more per driver...*per event.

That's interesting, because I was just noticing that Chump now charges as much as $1200 per event.

30 Time Loser with Class C, Index of Effluency, I got Screwed and Heroic Fix Trophies who usually races, according to Car and Driver, The Greatest Road Racing Cherokee in History.

Check out our FB Page and follow our various exploits.

27 (edited by disarrae 2013-09-03 09:31 PM)

Re: Driver's fees up 50%. Let's Unionize!

Yeah, CC also has some bizarre a$$ new valuation rules that make 2004 Cameros worth cheap, like $350?!?!?!?!?.  I say MOaR Lemons, MOar racing.  I really like the koolaide, I'll pay more for it!

Putting the "dirty" in Dirty Little Freaks Racing
~stalk us on facebook

Re: Driver's fees up 50%. Let's Unionize!

Where's all this C&D money going!?!

Auto Lemon Union www.facebook.com/autolemonunion     
'11 - Point, Sweat, Skank; '12 - Point, Sweat, Vodden, Freeze, '13 Point (+even), Turrible, Vodden, Freeze, '14 Problem, Point, Turrible, Vodden, Freeze, '15 Point, Lemonites, Freeze.

Re: Driver's fees up 50%. Let's Unionize!

f263u wrote:

Where's all this C&D money going!?!

Hahahahaha! There is no C/D money! It's a deal in which Car and Driver gets my writing for free (I do it as part of my judge job) and then publicizes Lemons in the pages of the magazine. C/D gets a bunch of free pageviews on their website for running stuff from the Murilee Martin Lifestyle Brand™, Lemons gets exposure through the C/D empire, everybody is happy. But the sponsorship deal doesn't pay anything (that I know of-- maybe Jay is getting midnight deliveries of suitcases full of C-notes).

Re: Driver's fees up 50%. Let's Unionize!

Crap. That was our oil & brake money.

Looks like I'm gonna have to tape plastic bags and diapers under the car to recover oil drippings. And hey, what about using strips of oak in lieu of actual brake pads. It's not like we go fast enough to make a difference.

Hapless ZomBee Driver: "THE BRAKES DON'T %$@#& WORK!!"

Team Delusional Captain: "THEN SLOW THE HELL DOWN!!"

"Real ZomBees prefer Bacon"
IOE(x2) MGB/SAAB 96, Judge's Choice, Class C Win, & 2011 Hooniverse Car of the Year!
MRolla, Stick Figure/Animal House, Free Range MR2, SAAB Sonett, "The Death Flip"
2008 Exoskeleton Jag Fiasco, Concours d Lemons - Rue Britannia, worse British car.

Re: Driver's fees up 50%. Let's Unionize!

Sparky Pete wrote:

And hey, what about using strips of oak in lieu of actual brake pads. It's not like we go fast enough to make a difference.

Please use Mesquite. I love the smell of mesquite when I'm being passed.

Re: Driver's fees up 50%. Let's Unionize!

disarrae wrote:

Yeah, CC also has some bizarre a$$ new valuation rules that make 2004 Cameros worth cheap, like $350?!?!?!?!?.  I say MOaR Lemons, MOar racing.  I really like the koolaide, I'll pay more for it!

Cadillac Catera - $500
Integra GSR - $450
Gen. I/II RX-7 - $300

Makes sense to me!

Re: Driver's fees up 50%. Let's Unionize!

Spank wrote:
Sparky Pete wrote:

And hey, what about using strips of oak in lieu of actual brake pads. It's not like we go fast enough to make a difference.

Please use Mesquite. I love the smell of mesquite when I'm being passed.

Try being passed by a car that has ribs being smoked in the back...

Pucker Factor Racing - Gator-O-Rama, Feb '11, Yee-Haw It's Lemons Texas!, Oct '11
Scuderia Ignorante - Yee-Haw, It's Lemons Texas, Feb '12 (As seen in Car & Driver), Gator-O-Rama, Sept '13

34

Re: Driver's fees up 50%. Let's Unionize!

Good to see my car is worth the same as a mid 80's through early 90's v8 transam, or mustang. 

Chump is finally giving the Cutlass Ciera the respect it doesn't deserve.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
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Re: Driver's fees up 50%. Let's Unionize!

Spank wrote:
Sparky Pete wrote:

And hey, what about using strips of oak in lieu of actual brake pads. It's not like we go fast enough to make a difference.

Please use Mesquite. I love the smell of mesquite when I'm being passed.

Ooooh, or Pecan! Pecan smells great too!

RetroRacing-1973 Super! Beetle
Nine Finger Drifters- 1982 te72 Toyota Corolla Wagon (BEAMS PWRD!)
My one man show: G. D. Yo-Man: No! YOU Ams Da A&&hole!
2010 CMP Fall-Judges' Choice, 2014 Barber-DFL and I Got Screwed!, 3X- You Talk Shit Better Than You Race (YTSBTYR) Award, 2017 NCM- IOE (thanks, Speedy!), 2018 Inde-Heroic Fix, 2019 Inde-Winner C Class

Re: Driver's fees up 50%. Let's Unionize!

ross2004 wrote:
disarrae wrote:

Yeah, CC also has some bizarre a$$ new valuation rules that make 2004 Cameros worth cheap, like $350?!?!?!?!?.  I say MOaR Lemons, MOar racing.  I really like the koolaide, I'll pay more for it!

Cadillac Catera - $500
Integra GSR - $450
Gen. I/II RX-7 - $300

Makes sense to me!

It's almost like they're trying to discourage people from running crappy cars or something...

Tunachuckers: 13 Years of Sucking at Sucking
2008- 2010:  1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
2010-conversion into Plymford:  1975 Ford LTD Landau...doesn't have a name?
2018:  1950 "Plymford".  Organizer's Choice - CMP Fall 2018 Hurricane Florence reschedule

Re: Driver's fees up 50%. Let's Unionize!

The pressure is on to get sponsors. Compuware, where's that bag of money I asked you for? Compuware: Tell me again about that 5 lap race you just "completed".

Re: Driver's fees up 50%. Let's Unionize!

Speaking of paying, while Lemons' fees haven't gone up since '06, some expenses sure have. Just little stuff, like track rental, and corporate liability, and event liability, and participant insurance, and corner workers, and tow crews, and fire & rescue crews, and gate staff, and security staff, and timing software, and timing hardware, and timing staff, and transponders, and office rent, and fulltime salaries, and employee health care, shipping, and database design, and airfare, and lodging, and reg-tool management, and photographers, and work comp, and Federal retirement matching, and signage, and many many many many damn lawyers, and web hosting, and web design, and business licenses in CA, TX, NJ, NH, WA, IL, MI, FL, LA, NV, WV, etc, and state taxes in CA, TX, NJ, NH, WA, IL, MI, FL, LA, NV, WV, etc, and federal taxes, and tax prep, and bookkeeping, and accounting, and corp fees, and printing, and meals, and graphic design, and rent cars, and travel agents, and flags, and radios, and spam hosts, and umbrella coverage, and computers, and phones, and internet, and camping access, and wristbands, and credit-card fees, and ambulances, and merchant processing, and magazine/web/FB ads, and mail lists, and tech inspectors, and BS inspectors, and fuel bosses, and trophies, and flatbeds, and onsite race managers, and onsite event managers, and starters, and tower staff, and truck insurance, and traffic cops, and rent-a-cops, and table staff, and grid dudes, and a Gobi Desert of Oil-Dri, and gear inspectors, and track damages, and IT contracts, and comm lines, and SFI dues, and safety/medical/tech consultants

- free internet porn = no price increase.  Seems like simple math.

Lou Glutz Motorsports:  Vodden 2012 DNF, Pointless 2013 DNF, Vodden 2013 DNF, ArseFreeze 2013 P-53, Pointless 2014 P-65, Vodden 2014 P-85, Arse-Freeze 2014 P-31 Class A, Pointless 2015 P-105 (brakes) Class A, Vodden 2015 P-75 (Electrical), ArseFreeze 2015 P-41, Pointless 2016 P-53, ArseFreeze P-29

Re: Driver's fees up 50%. Let's Unionize!

Read through the new CC, so screwy. They have 4 different base values for 190e-s, they did change year over year, just what model you bought. 89 Jetta 250, 89 gti (SAME CAR) 300 ... crazy.

the Syndicate - 30 losses and counting ...
89 VW Jettarosa - #337 (11 motors later) <> 67 Mercedes 200 - #200, winner "most with the least" MSR Feb 11, IOE at MSR June 11 <> 88 Mercedes 560 SEL <> 76 Mercedes SLC - IOE at ECR March 13 <> now pimping performance parts for 1970-1980's Mercedes SEL, SEC, SL, SLC's

40

Re: Driver's fees up 50%. Let's Unionize!

Camaro and trans-ams have different values.  Celebrity and Cutlass ciera has different values for the same years.

However it does leave it open to engine swaps on some of these cars.  take a car worth 100, and another car worth 300, and that leaves you 100 for whatever other parts you need to mate them.  Pretty sure if we try we can really break their system.

Yugo is only $75, leaving you plenty of fwd options to get a donor to drop in the rear of it.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
Facebook Page

Re: Driver's fees up 50%. Let's Unionize!

BoB wrote:

Camaro and trans-ams have different values.  Celebrity and Cutlass ciera has different values for the same years.

However it does leave it open to engine swaps on some of these cars.  take a car worth 100, and another car worth 300, and that leaves you 100 for whatever other parts you need to mate them.  Pretty sure if we try we can really break their system.

Yugo is only $75, leaving you plenty of fwd options to get a donor to drop in the rear of it.

Nope. From CC rulebook, this is how they value engine swaps:

"The “Formula” is: MPV + (ACPV/IN–ACPV/OUT) + Stuff + Surcharge = TCV

4.6.1.
To determine the Total Competition Value (TCV) for all cars that have swapped-out a major component (or components), ChumpCar will start with the vehicle’s MPV (Market Performance Value–See Section 4.1)

4.6.2.ChumpCar teams must then document and add the value of the components installed, determined by the average of the lowest ten (10), “A-rated” advertised prices for the exact same component, as found on Car-Parts.com. (ACPV/IN-Average Car-Parts Value/IN)

4.6.3.
ChumpCar teams must then document and deduct the value of the components removed, determined by the average of the lowest ten (10), “A-rated” advertised prices for the exact same component, as found on Car-Parts.com. (ACPV/OUT–Average Car-Parts Value/OUT)

4.6.4.
ChumpCar will only consider Car-Parts.com “A-rated” advertisements as qualified, approved documentation. The ad must quote a specified, firm price.

Blah, blah, blah for 64 more pages..."

This means my Jeep Cherokee is valued at $6,700, probably more, but I couldn't stop laughing and gave up. lol

30 Time Loser with Class C, Index of Effluency, I got Screwed and Heroic Fix Trophies who usually races, according to Car and Driver, The Greatest Road Racing Cherokee in History.

Check out our FB Page and follow our various exploits.

Re: Driver's fees up 50%. Let's Unionize!

TeamPettyCash wrote:
BoB wrote:

Camaro and trans-ams have different values.  Celebrity and Cutlass ciera has different values for the same years.

However it does leave it open to engine swaps on some of these cars.  take a car worth 100, and another car worth 300, and that leaves you 100 for whatever other parts you need to mate them.  Pretty sure if we try we can really break their system.

Yugo is only $75, leaving you plenty of fwd options to get a donor to drop in the rear of it.

Nope. From CC rulebook, this is how they value engine swaps:

"The “Formula” is: MPV + (ACPV/IN–ACPV/OUT) + Stuff + Surcharge = TCV

4.6.1.
To determine the Total Competition Value (TCV) for all cars that have swapped-out a major component (or components), ChumpCar will start with the vehicle’s MPV (Market Performance Value–See Section 4.1)

4.6.2.ChumpCar teams must then document and add the value of the components installed, determined by the average of the lowest ten (10), “A-rated” advertised prices for the exact same component, as found on Car-Parts.com. (ACPV/IN-Average Car-Parts Value/IN)

4.6.3.
ChumpCar teams must then document and deduct the value of the components removed, determined by the average of the lowest ten (10), “A-rated” advertised prices for the exact same component, as found on Car-Parts.com. (ACPV/OUT–Average Car-Parts Value/OUT)

4.6.4.
ChumpCar will only consider Car-Parts.com “A-rated” advertisements as qualified, approved documentation. The ad must quote a specified, firm price.

Blah, blah, blah for 64 more pages..."

This means my Jeep Cherokee is valued at $6,700, probably more, but I couldn't stop laughing and gave up. lol

I gave it a go on the Fairmont, just for kicks. $150 for the car, then $350 for a markviii to get the engine from. So I guess if we called selling the i-6 and 4spd out of it, plus buying a t45, we might make it without too many laps.

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Winner " I got screwed" and "Jay's dream car"
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Re: Driver's fees up 50%. Let's Unionize!

Baron wrote:

I gave it a go on the Fairmont, just for kicks. $150 for the car, then $350 for a markviii to get the engine from. So I guess if we called selling the i-6 and 4spd out of it, plus buying a t45, we might make it without too many laps.

The way I read their swap rules, they don't allow you to buy another car for the motor. I went to Carparts.com and the only 4.8 liter V8 out of a '00 GMC Savannah was $4,300.

30 Time Loser with Class C, Index of Effluency, I got Screwed and Heroic Fix Trophies who usually races, according to Car and Driver, The Greatest Road Racing Cherokee in History.

Check out our FB Page and follow our various exploits.

44

Re: Driver's fees up 50%. Let's Unionize!

but you then get to subtract the most expensive price you can find for your stock engine.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
Facebook Page

Re: Driver's fees up 50%. Let's Unionize!

Baron wrote:
TeamPettyCash wrote:
BoB wrote:

Camaro and trans-ams have different values.  Celebrity and Cutlass ciera has different values for the same years.

However it does leave it open to engine swaps on some of these cars.  take a car worth 100, and another car worth 300, and that leaves you 100 for whatever other parts you need to mate them.  Pretty sure if we try we can really break their system.

Yugo is only $75, leaving you plenty of fwd options to get a donor to drop in the rear of it.

Nope. From CC rulebook, this is how they value engine swaps:

"The “Formula” is: MPV + (ACPV/IN–ACPV/OUT) + Stuff + Surcharge = TCV

4.6.1.
To determine the Total Competition Value (TCV) for all cars that have swapped-out a major component (or components), ChumpCar will start with the vehicle’s MPV (Market Performance Value–See Section 4.1)

4.6.2.ChumpCar teams must then document and add the value of the components installed, determined by the average of the lowest ten (10), “A-rated” advertised prices for the exact same component, as found on Car-Parts.com. (ACPV/IN-Average Car-Parts Value/IN)

4.6.3.
ChumpCar teams must then document and deduct the value of the components removed, determined by the average of the lowest ten (10), “A-rated” advertised prices for the exact same component, as found on Car-Parts.com. (ACPV/OUT–Average Car-Parts Value/OUT)

4.6.4.
ChumpCar will only consider Car-Parts.com “A-rated” advertisements as qualified, approved documentation. The ad must quote a specified, firm price.

Blah, blah, blah for 64 more pages..."

This means my Jeep Cherokee is valued at $6,700, probably more, but I couldn't stop laughing and gave up. lol

I gave it a go on the Fairmont, just for kicks. $150 for the car, then $350 for a markviii to get the engine from. So I guess if we called selling the i-6 and 4spd out of it, plus buying a t45, we might make it without too many laps.

There is a lot of math in Chump. And lots of alphabet soup. I get confused easily after the 50th or so page. I never realized when I complained to my teachers and my Mom that I would never use all the advanced math they were trying to teach me that I would need it to figure out how much my legitimate $300 slow little 87 CRX was worth.
I like racing.
I don't like math.
I've only got one car and there is nothing I can do to change what it is so when we do Chump I'll just take the penalty if we get one and pretend like I'm passing for position. We aren't going to win in either series with the car we have, even with a 50 lap advantage, so I ain't trippin', Lulu. It's supposed to be fun. Math isn't fun to me. Rule books aren't either.

AND, to make sure I'm not entirely complicit in the thread hi-jack, I'm okay with the fee raise from Jay. I'm surprised and thankful that it has been kept the same price for so long. It WILL pinch a little because I operate on such a razor thin margin of being able to do this or not AND because I want (need) to do as many races as possible while I can and while the opportunity exists. I'll figure out a way. Even if it means a little less beer or a little less bacon. That's right, I said it!

Re: Driver's fees up 50%. Let's Unionize!

BoB wrote:

but you then get to subtract the most expensive price you can find for your stock engine.

That still leaves me $3000 in the hole for the new engine, even though I was able to buy the V8 for $300, and I sold my 4.0 for $600.

30 Time Loser with Class C, Index of Effluency, I got Screwed and Heroic Fix Trophies who usually races, according to Car and Driver, The Greatest Road Racing Cherokee in History.

Check out our FB Page and follow our various exploits.

Re: Driver's fees up 50%. Let's Unionize!

Wendell34 wrote:

AND, to make sure I'm not entirely complicit in the thread hi-jack, I'm okay with the fee raise from Jay. I'm surprised and thankful that it has been kept the same price for so long. It WILL pinch a little because I operate on such a razor thin margin of being able to do this or not AND because I want (need) to do as many races as possible while I can and while the opportunity exists. I'll figure out a way. Even if it means a little less beer or a little less bacon. That's right, I said it!

Yep, that about sums it up.  The leftover beer from the race just won't last a week anymore.  O-well.

Bloomington, IN
We'll bring Beer!  Motorsports
Team Fiery Death! #0 2009 Lamest Day(65th), 2010 American Irony(24th), 2010 Detroit Bull(4th),2012 Capitol Offense (8th) 2012 American Irony (11 th), 2013 Capitol Offense (3rd) 2013 Chubba Chedder (4th, Judge Choice!) Now sadly part of a scrap pile. 
Toothless Racing Deadbeats #110 2011 Summit Point (61st) Currently being rebuilt into the new car!

Re: Driver's fees up 50%. Let's Unionize!

Wow, what drugs were they on when they wrote those rules? A Isuzu P'up has the same value as a V8 Camaro or Mustang? A Ford Exp worth more than a regular Escort? A Renault Alliance the same as a Civic? Crazy...

Fourteen time loser. You'd think I'd know better by now.

49

Re: Driver's fees up 50%. Let's Unionize!

TeamPettyCash wrote:
BoB wrote:

but you then get to subtract the most expensive price you can find for your stock engine.

That still leaves me $3000 in the hole for the new engine, even though I was able to buy the V8 for $300, and I sold my 4.0 for $600.

What you pay has nothing to do with it.  I beleive you can replace your engine with a fresh one and it doesn't matter what you pay.  Even the car you buy doesn't matter what you paid for it as long as it matches their chart.  What they felt was a better way.  I'm guessing it will be pretty easy to look through the list and figure out which cars you should run.

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2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
Facebook Page

Re: Driver's fees up 50%. Let's Unionize!

Wendell34 wrote:

[I'll figure out a way. Even if it means a little less beer or a little less bacon. That's right, I said it!

You, kind sir, are %$@#& delusional.

"Real ZomBees prefer Bacon"
IOE(x2) MGB/SAAB 96, Judge's Choice, Class C Win, & 2011 Hooniverse Car of the Year!
MRolla, Stick Figure/Animal House, Free Range MR2, SAAB Sonett, "The Death Flip"
2008 Exoskeleton Jag Fiasco, Concours d Lemons - Rue Britannia, worse British car.