Topic: Noise: or, put a muffler on that thing, buddy.

Yeah, after having been beat up by the track officials at TH this past weekend, I'm putting y'all on notice.   Your cars need to be quieter.   

   We had over 15 cars blow past the track limit of 103 db.     Every one of those cars lost track time for repairs, a few got tossed out of the race.. Not by us, the track gave 'em 3 chances and then said we couldn't let them run any more.

   Our limit is 92 db... and we haven't been that diligent about enforcement when the track allows higher limits.  That is changing, if your car is too loud, you will have to fix if before racing, really!   

      So, put a quality muffler on your hooptie and do it well.  Or you will incur the wrath of the Lemons tech squad.

  I f you have questions, ask me, but if your question is: Is my car too loud?  The answer is yes, asking the question means you're over 92 db, without doubt. 

   Crappy turn down/baffle/re-route away from the sound meter fixes are not what we're after.  Add mufflers and make the damn thing quiet, OK? 

-TEO

Gosh, my business card says 'Tech Tyrant'

Re: Noise: or, put a muffler on that thing, buddy.

FWIW, both of our cars are running a magnaflow (or knockoff of it) and they are free flowing and keep the noise down well. Plus they are everywhere, and cheap.

We ran with some 3" bullet race mufflers, and it was horrible on drivers in the car as well as around it, im sure. We swapped them out with a quickness.

Team Lost in the Dark
Winner " I got screwed" and "Jay's dream car"
2012 Gulf region champs

Re: Noise: or, put a muffler on that thing, buddy.

Where's the LIKE button?

We're running a cheapo Magnaflow/Thrush/CherryBomb turbo muffler on the Z and  I wish more people did the same.  You don't lose any power, they're wicked cheap, and available in all sizes.

Black Gold/Sex Panther Racing: '79 Datsun 280ZX
Dirty Penny Racing: Rustyass Datsun 210.

Re: Noise: or, put a muffler on that thing, buddy.

"WHAT?!?!?"

"Real ZomBees prefer Bacon"
IOE(x2) MGB/SAAB 96, Judge's Choice, Class C Win, & 2011 Hooniverse Car of the Year!
MRolla, Stick Figure/Animal House, Free Range MR2, SAAB Sonett, "The Death Flip"
2008 Exoskeleton Jag Fiasco, Concours d Lemons - Rue Britannia, worse British car.

Re: Noise: or, put a muffler on that thing, buddy.

We run a cheap Thrush as well.  28 bucks.

Re: Noise: or, put a muffler on that thing, buddy.

simple solution, add a turbo. Yay muffling.

Seriously though, this makes me happy. So irritating when a car goes screaming past loud enough to make your ears bleed.


Unless it's an alfa V6, then please be louder because that noise is god like.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Noise: or, put a muffler on that thing, buddy.

There are sound meter apps for smart phones. Anyone know if they are accurate enough to keep people out of trouble?

Organizer's Choice Award 2011 Heaps in Heart of Texas
IOE 2012 North Dallas Hooptie
2014 ECR Class C WIN;  2015 MSR Class B WIN
Speedy Monzales

Re: Noise: or, put a muffler on that thing, buddy.

Strangely, only a couple of RX-7s failed the noise test at Thunderhill. Most of the offenders were Detroit V8s and BMW sixes.

Re: Noise: or, put a muffler on that thing, buddy.

rcazwillis wrote:

There are sound meter apps for smart phones. Anyone know if they are accurate enough to keep people out of trouble?

We tested our cars with the smart phone app, at like 20 feet, and it was close enough that we havent been talked to. We were well under the mark at 50'

Team Lost in the Dark
Winner " I got screwed" and "Jay's dream car"
2012 Gulf region champs

Re: Noise: or, put a muffler on that thing, buddy.

I'd say, "I hear ya", but my Yamaha V8 is too loud.

Capt. Delinquent Racing
RUST-TITE XR4Ti - '21 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA  I Got Screwed
The One & Only Taurus V8 SHO #31(now moved on to another OG Delinquent)
'17 Vodden the Hell - (No) Hope for the Future Award, '08 AMP Survivor, '08 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA Mega-Cheater

Re: Noise: or, put a muffler on that thing, buddy.

Evil Genius wrote:

Yeah, after having been beat up by the track officials at TH this past weekend, I'm putting y'all on notice.   Your cars need to be quieter.   

   We had over 15 cars blow past the track limit of 103 db.     Every one of those cars lost track time for repairs, a few got tossed out of the race.. Not by us, the track gave 'em 3 chances and then said we couldn't let them run any more.

   Our limit is 92 db... and we haven't been that diligent about enforcement when the track allows higher limits.  That is changing, if your car is too loud, you will have to fix if before racing, really!   

      So, put a quality muffler on your hooptie and do it well.  Or you will incur the wrath of the Lemons tech squad.

  I f you have questions, ask me, but if your question is: Is my car too loud?  The answer is yes, asking the question means you're over 92 db, without doubt. 

-TEO

Damn,  that's Laguna Seca quite ..

Better dig up the stock mufflers, I have yet to find an aftermarket one that will pass there!

Re: Noise: or, put a muffler on that thing, buddy.

Judge Phil wrote:

Strangely, only a couple of RX-7s failed the noise test at Thunderhill. Most of the offenders were Detroit V8s and BMW sixes.

I absolutely do not understand why people that run RX7s think they need to be super loud!

Neither of our RX7s is loud at all!

Rob R.

Ghetto motorsports - Car #555 1980 Mazda RX7 (3x winner of BFE GP / 1x 2nd place of BFE GP...BOO!)
Car #350 78 Chevy Malibu (Least horrible Yank Tank, Heroic Fix) (Gone)
Car # 556 1987 Mazda RX7 (6th place MMC 2013) (1st place Capitol Offense 2013)

13 (edited by DelinquentRacer 2013-09-20 11:03 AM)

Re: Noise: or, put a muffler on that thing, buddy.

Ultimately, db levels measure the energy in the sound pressure of the exhaust note. Sound testing on a cold or rainy day will read at higher levels than on hot dry days. Cool/moist air is more dense, so it better transfers the energy to the dB meter.

One of the reasons that the rotaries don't trip the meter is they shriek. Loud 4 cylinder cars tend to have higher pitched exhaust  as well. Big 6- and 8-cylinder cars will have lower pitched exhaust. These "bass" tones carry farther with more energy than the high freq. tones of 4-cylinders and rotaries.

CA Vehicle Code limits "competition off-highway vehicles" to 96dB and 101dB depending upon date of manufacture. That measurement is taken from 20 inches, and certain rpm that the CVC doesn't specify other than listing an SAE test procedure number. 

92 dB at 50 feet means the exhaust will be a lot louder at the car. I do, however, feel that 92dB at 50 feet is a bit restrictive for a race car, especially a V8 at full throttle.

So, the fix:
4-cylinder with bullet muffler and 2 inch exhaust or less
6- and 8-cylinders with bullet muffs and dual 2.5 inch or less

Any larger diameter exhaust tubing and you'll probably need more muffler.

I was running 3.4L V8 with 3.5 inch single exhaust with a 20"  bullet muffler and that was measured 104 dB at Thunderhill's monitor. I did have a lot of other racer's compliment me on the sound of the car, however.

Lastly, I ran afoul of tech by dumping my exhaust under the car, but in front of the fuel tank at Thunderhill. The current rule set says this is OK, but expect to see that changed next year, and for the rest of this year. So, we spent 3 hours fabbing additional exhaust for a side exit thought the cab and out the right rear passenger door. (We have ground clearance issues) Thanks to everyone that donated tubing and flex and welders. Of course, after all that work, we ended-up too loud and black flagged.

Capt. Delinquent Racing
RUST-TITE XR4Ti - '21 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA  I Got Screwed
The One & Only Taurus V8 SHO #31(now moved on to another OG Delinquent)
'17 Vodden the Hell - (No) Hope for the Future Award, '08 AMP Survivor, '08 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA Mega-Cheater

Re: Noise: or, put a muffler on that thing, buddy.

DelinquentRacer wrote:

Ultimately, db levels measure the energy in the sound pressure of the exhaust note. Sound testing on a cold or rainy day will read at higher levels than on hot dry days. Cool/moist air is more dense, so it better transfers the energy to the dB meter.

One of the reasons that the rotaries don't trip the meter is they shriek. Loud 4 cylinder cars tend to have higher pitched exhaust  as well. Big 6- and 8-cylinder cars will have lower pitched exhaust. These "bass" tones carry farther with more energy than the high freq. tones of 4-cylinders and rotaries.

CA Vehicle Code limits "competition off-highway vehicles" to 96dB and 101dB depending upon date of manufacture. That measurement is taken from 20 inches, and certain rpm that the CVC doesn't specify other than listing an SAE test procedure number. 

92 dB at 50 feet means the exhaust will be a lot louder at the car. I do, however, feel that 92dB at 50 feet is a bit restrictive for a race car, especially a V8 at full throttle.

So, the fix:
4-cylinder with bullet muffler and 2 inch exhaust or less
6- and 8-cylinders with bullet muffs and dual 2.5 inch or less

Any larger diameter exhaust tubing and you'll probably need more muffler.

I was running 3.4L V8 with 3.5 inch single exhaust with a 20"  bullet muffler and that was measured 104 dB at Thunderhill's monitor. I did have a lot of other racer's compliment me on the sound of the car, however.

Lastly, I ran afoul of tech by dumping my exhaust under the car, but in front of the fuel tank at Thunderhill. The current rule set says this is OK, but expect to see that changed next year, and for the rest of this year. So, we spent 3 hours fabbing additional exhaust for a side exit thought the cab and out the right rear passenger door. (We have ground clearance issues) Thanks to everyone that donated tubing and flex and welders. Of course, after all that work, we ended-up too loud and black flagged.


Greg,
That sucks. I love the way the Skunk sounds. And it's fun to drive.
I was going to stop by and say "Hi" but by the time I had a chance you were loaded up and gone. I wish something could have been worked out. I was worried the car broke but this kinda sucks even more.
Never thought it seemed obnoxiously loud. There are some of those high screamers that seem way worse.
Good luck sorting it out.

Re: Noise: or, put a muffler on that thing, buddy.

DelinquentRacer wrote:

Ultimately, db levels measure the energy in the sound pressure of the exhaust note. Sound testing on a cold or rainy day will read at higher levels than on hot dry days. Cool/moist air is more dense, so it better transfers the energy to the dB meter.

One of the reasons that the rotaries don't trip the meter is they shriek. Loud 4 cylinder cars tend to have higher pitched exhaust  as well. Big 6- and 8-cylinder cars will have lower pitched exhaust. These "bass" tones carry farther with more energy than the high freq. tones of 4-cylinders and rotaries.

CA Vehicle Code limits "competition off-highway vehicles" to 96dB and 101dB depending upon date of manufacture. That measurement is taken from 20 inches, and certain rpm that the CVC doesn't specify other than listing an SAE test procedure number. 

92 dB at 50 feet means the exhaust will be a lot louder at the car. I do, however, feel that 92dB at 50 feet is a bit restrictive for a race car, especially a V8 at full throttle.

So, the fix:
4-cylinder with bullet muffler and 2 inch exhaust or less
6- and 8-cylinders with bullet muffs and dual 2.5 inch or less

Any larger diameter exhaust tubing and you'll probably need more muffler.

I was running 3.4L V8 with 3.5 inch single exhaust with a 20"  bullet muffler and that was measured 104 dB at Thunderhill's monitor. I did have a lot of other racer's compliment me on the sound of the car, however.

Lastly, I ran afoul of tech by dumping my exhaust under the car, but in front of the fuel tank at Thunderhill. The current rule set says this is OK, but expect to see that changed next year, and for the rest of this year. So, we spent 3 hours fabbing additional exhaust for a side exit thought the cab and out the right rear passenger door. (We have ground clearance issues) Thanks to everyone that donated tubing and flex and welders. Of course, after all that work, we ended-up too loud and black flagged.


Can you elaborate on that? We have dual exhaust dumped before the rear axle, and a cell behind the rear axle. Its passed tech this was several times, but Id very much not like to be trying to figure out a fix just hours before the start of the houston race.

Team Lost in the Dark
Winner " I got screwed" and "Jay's dream car"
2012 Gulf region champs

Re: Noise: or, put a muffler on that thing, buddy.

Our Volvo 4-banger got yanked off the track on Saturday for 1-1/2 hours while we flipped the tail pipe toward the inside of the track.  We are running a 3" exhaust with a magnaflow muffler.  Needless to say we are building a new exhaust with two mufflers.  :-(

10x loser (Arse-Freeze '11 - Vodden '15) 1x WINNER! Arse-Freeze '14 in the Watermelon Volvo Wagon
Swedish Knievel Skycycle('90 Volvo 740 Wagon)

17 (edited by Omnilith 2013-09-20 03:12 PM)

Re: Noise: or, put a muffler on that thing, buddy.

Two reality checks:

1) If we have to stop talking at the Thunderhill Grill while you fly by into turn 1, you're too loud.

2) If I can't hear my engine AT ALL over your car near me on track, you're too loud.

Oddly enough, one of my favorite things about going to the (real) races is the sound of the cars... except a Lemons race. With a few small exceptions, all of our cars sound like shit and are best kept well muffled.

Lorin Mueller
Scuderia Asino formerly Team Haulin' Ass - 83 Plymouth Scamp
Team Soccer Moms - 93 Dodge Caravan

Re: Noise: or, put a muffler on that thing, buddy.

Judge Phil wrote:

Strangely, only a couple of RX-7s failed the noise test at Thunderhill. Most of the offenders were Detroit V8s and BMW sixes.

Our RX7 is very, very  loud inside the car but surprisingly quiet outside the car.

13X losers (or is 14 now?) refusing to learn from our failures.
Organizer's Choice!  Trophy should have a bottle opener on it.

Re: Noise: or, put a muffler on that thing, buddy.

Wendell34 wrote:

Greg,
That sucks. I love the way the Skunk sounds. And it's fun to drive.
I was going to stop by and say "Hi" but by the time I had a chance you were loaded up and gone. I wish something could have been worked out. I was worried the car broke but this kinda sucks even more.
Never thought it seemed obnoxiously loud. There are some of those high screamers that seem way worse.
Good luck sorting it out.

Neal, we did break.
Killed another engine.
We woulda fixed the sound issue and continued to race,
but for whatever reason a head gasket let go when my driver shut off the engine at the Penalty Box.
Turned out to be a very harsh penalty. We were all pretty bummed.

Wendell34 wrote:

Never thought it seemed obnoxiously loud. There are some of those high screamers that seem way worse.

That's what really sucks about sound energy - I tune for bass which gets hammered at the dB meter, but the screaming rotaries (which I like BTW) get a pass
because of the higher freqs.      Oh, well.

Capt. Delinquent Racing
RUST-TITE XR4Ti - '21 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA  I Got Screwed
The One & Only Taurus V8 SHO #31(now moved on to another OG Delinquent)
'17 Vodden the Hell - (No) Hope for the Future Award, '08 AMP Survivor, '08 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA Mega-Cheater

Re: Noise: or, put a muffler on that thing, buddy.

Baron wrote:

Can you elaborate on that? We have dual exhaust dumped before the rear axle, and a cell behind the rear axle. Its passed tech this was several times, but Id very much not like to be trying to figure out a fix just hours before the start of the Houston race.

You'd better check with TEO. YMMV

I followed the rules, I thought, by dumping straight down 18 inches in front of the tank, but behind the driver. I figured I wasn't blowing on the tank and 18 inches would be enough to mix in plenty of ambient air to dilute the hot exhaust gases.

The way it was explained to me was something like, "...1000+°F gases swirling about the front and bottom of the fuel tank will heat the fuel excessively...Sorry, but you'll have to get the exhaust out from under the car."

Capt. Delinquent Racing
RUST-TITE XR4Ti - '21 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA  I Got Screwed
The One & Only Taurus V8 SHO #31(now moved on to another OG Delinquent)
'17 Vodden the Hell - (No) Hope for the Future Award, '08 AMP Survivor, '08 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA Mega-Cheater

21 (edited by DelinquentRacer 2013-09-20 05:37 PM)

Re: Noise: or, put a muffler on that thing, buddy.

Omnilith wrote:

Two reality checks:

1) If we have to stop talking at the Thunderhill Grill while you fly by into turn 1, you're too loud.

I might agree with that, though 3 seconds of no talking every 2:38 might be nice.
Seriously, was that the 131 Skunk SHO that caused y'all to pause and take a breath? Or some other POS with ratty sounding, excessively loud exhaust?

Omnilith wrote:

2) If I can't hear my engine AT ALL over your car near me on track, you're too loud.

All of our drivers found the through-the-door-side-exiting-3.5"-awesomeness quite useful when passing on the left.

Omnilith wrote:

Oddly enough, one of my favorite things about going to the (real) races is the sound of the cars... except a Lemons race. With a few small exceptions, all of our cars sound like shit and are best kept well muffled.

I ALWAYS strive to be exceptional AND Nobody refers to me as "small."

Capt. Delinquent Racing
RUST-TITE XR4Ti - '21 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA  I Got Screwed
The One & Only Taurus V8 SHO #31(now moved on to another OG Delinquent)
'17 Vodden the Hell - (No) Hope for the Future Award, '08 AMP Survivor, '08 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA Mega-Cheater

Re: Noise: or, put a muffler on that thing, buddy.

None of that was directed at you guys specifically.  I think the skunk sounds just snazzy.

Lorin Mueller
Scuderia Asino formerly Team Haulin' Ass - 83 Plymouth Scamp
Team Soccer Moms - 93 Dodge Caravan

Re: Noise: or, put a muffler on that thing, buddy.

Hey Greg   so with our tailpipe cut on the mazda we all got Carbon monoxide sickness from pipe not tall enough ..

OOPS  know that for next time.

Pit Crew Revenge Racing   Rolling chicanelimo,95Lamdspeeder,Gimp Pimp Cadi,300zx Car show kaboom!! 90 Wagovan, mazda v8 Lemons LOGO TATTOO!  Aces 84 Cadi Eldo Briattz I O E WINNER
Class C win with LemonOdy Cannonball Run Whambulance !EX K Captain
Lemons Trophy Truck ShaGuar Baby!

Re: Noise: or, put a muffler on that thing, buddy.

So a few things to add. A good high flowing muffler will not hurt hp much if at all and can improve torque.
Placement off the muffler matters, length of the pipe before and after the muffler matter. Having a muffler near the tailpipe usually helps more than just one in the middle with a long tailpipe.
Dumping exhaust in the middle of the car creates 2 possible issues. One is resonance of the exhaust in the cabin. Dumping the tailpipe just past the rear bumper helps lower cabin volume/resonance. The other is heating the fuel tank. Airflow under a car is a strange thing, you don't know if it will heat the tank until you try it. Not a fun experiment.

You could use a smartphone or laptop app/program to see offending frequencies and create a quarter tuned resonator (like a gonzo nose that tees into the exhaust) that will dull or wipe out those frequencies. You can get length and volume and make a sliding resonator tube to adjust the gonzo nose resonator volume and frequency cancelling. No extra muffler and frequency specific noise canceling/dulling. Maybe high tech for a Lemons car but doable on the cheap.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

Re: Noise: or, put a muffler on that thing, buddy.

Omnilith wrote:

None of that was directed at you guys specifically.  I think the skunk sounds just snazzy.

Indeed it does. One of the few cars that had people stopping and pausing just to hear it. There were many awesome comments on the Skunk last weekend.

"Real ZomBees prefer Bacon"
IOE(x2) MGB/SAAB 96, Judge's Choice, Class C Win, & 2011 Hooniverse Car of the Year!
MRolla, Stick Figure/Animal House, Free Range MR2, SAAB Sonett, "The Death Flip"
2008 Exoskeleton Jag Fiasco, Concours d Lemons - Rue Britannia, worse British car.