Topic: Removing power steering

Has anyone removed the OEM power steering on their piece o' crap racers? Our car is still heavy and next up is removal of PS and I was wondering how many have done this and if you have did you have to ge a new steering rack? I'm sure you did but where would u start looking for a non PS steering rack?

Re: Removing power steering

The trick is to route the lines on the PS rack to each other so fluid can flow.  If you cap them it makes it a lot harder to turn the wheel.
At least, that's the trick for hondas.
Personally, i'd like to have PS if i'm going to be driving hard for an hour or two.  I think it's worth the ten pounds.

Re: Removing power steering

In our car the steering has like no feel at all, if there was a way to get more "feel" out of it, that would be fine, but the way it is now is "over assisted"

Re: Removing power steering

I think you will have a hard time finding a non-power rack for most modern cars.

I am sure there are articles on the Interweb about converting to non-power.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Removing power steering

We just cut the hoses off.  5 races in one car and one in the other with no steering issues so far.

Property Devaluation Racing

Drivers wanted for TX races

Re: Removing power steering

We had PS until Buttonwillow when the pump decided it had lived a long and happy life and started gushing fluid everywhere.  Later we learned that it is a weak point in Miatas and most Spec guys pull them off anyway.  Since then, we haven't had PS and I haven't noticed much difference, particularly at speed.  It would be nice to have, but not necessary.
Like Bobnova says, if you can, route the lines back into eachother.

-Kyle
Eyesore Racing
"That's probably wrong, but it's worth a shot."

Re: Removing power steering

After a 2.5 hour stint in our car, I'm glad we had power steering.
I felt like driving another couple hours.


KT

TH 2009- 40th ~ SP 2010- 13th Class Bad win!! TH 2010- 17th ~TH 2010- 16th  SP 2011- 20th ~ RF 2011- 13th Least Horrible Yank Tank ~ TH 2011- 79th
SP 2011- 105th ~ SP 2012- 119th ~ SP 2013- 139th ~ BW 2013- 17th
Follow Filthy on Facebook: Flailing Lizard Motorsports

Re: Removing power steering

I'm usually a fan of manual steering, even "depowered" power steering.  Adds lightness and simplicity, improves steering feel.  Good stuff.

But... this is an endurance race, and the easy it is to physically drive the car, the less fatigued your drivers will be near the end of their stint, and the less likely your car is to get damaged or black-flagged due to a dumb driver error.

Leave the power steering in.  Max out the caster and add a touch of toe-out if you want more steering feel/responsiveness.

Lemons South 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Spring 2009 - Fail, Lemons Detroit(ish) 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Fall 2009 - Fail, Lamest Day 2009 - Fail, Miami 2010 (Chump) - 2nd!, Sebring 2010 (Chump) - Fail, Cuba 2010 - Crew Chief, Roebling 2011 (Chump) - 8th!, Sebring 2011(Chump) - 19th!

Re: Removing power steering

If you can get underdrive puliies it might slow the pump down enough. Or just a bigger pulley for the pump.

Re: Removing power steering

we discussed removing the leaking pump on our mx6 but there isnt any way to route the belt w/out it and still catch all the pulleys right with a serpentine  , we also thought about just leaving it on and running the lines on the rack back into each other but then the pump would eventually lockup from lack of lubrication and smoke the belt so keep that in  mind               
we have decided to just leave it ,fix the leakyness, and run a bigger better cooler   if the pump ever dies we will already have a home made idler to take its place using the pump on our spare motor as a " fab " pattern

spectator "Lamest Day 09",DNF "American Irony" 2010,DNS "Capitol Offense"2010,DNF "Gingervitis"2011,DNF"ShowroomShlock"2011 maybe someday....                                                                                     
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
"luckily I didnt go into the mountain,.......I went over the cliff. I was doin 300 MPH sideways and 100 ft. down at the same time............"

Re: Removing power steering

I vote pull the power steering.  One less thing to go wrong.  A friend's team lost 30min patching a power steering unit because the belt was shared with the water pump and a failure of the PS unit would kill the water pump also.

Pull the hoses off.  Turn the wheel lock to lock (it will pump out a lot of fluid) and figure out which way the lines suck and pump.  Then loop them to make the system sealed.  Pull the pump, reservoir and belt (or swap to shorter belt).

Not all who wander are lost.

Re: Removing power steering

prime suspect wrote:

we discussed removing the leaking pump on our mx6 but there isnt any way to route the belt w/out it and still catch all the pulleys right with a serpentine  , we also thought about just leaving it on and running the lines on the rack back into each other but then the pump would eventually lockup from lack of lubrication and smoke the belt so keep that in  mind               
we have decided to just leave it ,fix the leakyness, and run a bigger better cooler   if the pump ever dies we will already have a home made idler to take its place using the pump on our spare motor as a " fab " pattern

You could open the pump up and remove the impeller.  Then you can fill it with fluid for lubrication but it won't actually pump anything.  Should work fine, but i've never actually tried it.

13 (edited by Jer 2009-11-30 06:07 AM)

Re: Removing power steering

We removed the power steering from our Miata and I never noticed it.  Keep in mind Lotus Elises at 1880 pounds do not have power steering from the factory. 

With the success we had removing the PS from the miata, we just removed it from the coROLLa too.  We wrapped the system back onto itself with 8 inches of hose (see photo), filling it with fluid first.  But that saves us more like 60 pounds, because the pump, reservoir, hard and soft lines, AC compressor and serpentine belt all really add up in weight.  I expect it to feel the same.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t271/Surferjer/IMGP0983.jpg

Jer / Schumacher Taxi Service
2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)

Re: Removing power steering

Same here the Miata I raced at CMP in the fall 2009 race had no power steering and really didn't even feel tired after a 2 hr + stint in the car. I didn't know that the car didn't have power steering until after the race was done.

But I think once you go above a certain weight you do need the power steering to stay fresh for long stints.

Re: Removing power steering

I pulled the belt from the power steering pump on our E30 to drag race it (seriously) and noticed hardly any difference in steering effort when driving faster than 5 mph. Even at speeds less than that it wasn't bad. I left the belt off for our last Lemons race but next time I will remove the pump and lines altogether and install a bypass on the pressure/return fittings at the rack. I did nearly a 2 hour stint at Buttonwillow and wasn't worn out.

The Homer: Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.

Re: Removing power steering

Just a thought from a noob.  Why not ditch the power steering pump and rather than running the hoses between the sides of the rack, just run them up to the ps tank.  It would allow for easy grunge free(ish) fluid swaps to help keep seals from leaking, bleed the system with ease, and give more fluid volume in the system.  Would that work fine?   A few feet of line and a couple of quarts of fluid aren't going to make a roll of tp in a shit storm worth of difference on these crapboxes.  Or are you just going to say no and cite cleaning up the crap in the bay and getting rid of stuff you technically don't need.

17 (edited by SharkBait 2009-12-08 10:58 PM)

Re: Removing power steering

Power steering? Really? Go lift some weights. If our one female driver doesn't miss having PS at all, you shouldn't either. And if you want to have any idea of how the turning wheels actually feel going through turns, you'll get rid of it.

We pulled it five races ago and still haven't sealed up the hoses going in and out of the rack (must add that back to the to do list). Thankfully, we do less two-wheeling these days which means there's still probably some PS fluid in there.

The Sharks
Home of the E28 Turbo Tuner Fish and the Hammered Head 944 Turbo

Re: Removing power steering

SharkBait wrote:

Power steering? Really? Go lift some weights. If our one female driver doesn't miss having PS at all, you shouldn't either. And if you want to have any idea of how the turning wheels actually feel going through turns, you'll get rid of it.

We pulled it five races ago and still haven't sealed up the hoses going in and out of the rack (must add that back to the to do list). Thankfully, we do less two-wheeling these days which means there's still probably some PS fluid in there.

Just make sure you check your steering shaft/coupler/flex disc, right?

The Homer: Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.

Re: Removing power steering

Loren wrote:

Leave the power steering in.  Max out the caster and add a touch of toe-out if you want more steering feel/responsiveness.

Loren,

How do you "max out" castor on a MacPherson strut car without purchasing parts?  Can an alignment shop "shim" it or something?  More castor would help and we already have a wee bit of toe out, but the steering is still "numb".

Re: Removing power steering

I've done one with and one without (in a heavy car).  So much nicer with PS.  I say use PS until it blows, then go manual.  A cheap PS cooler can add some life to the pump too.

Re: Removing power steering

ifb_mole wrote:

How do you "max out" castor on a MacPherson strut car without purchasing parts?

Dremel.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

22 (edited by Troy 2009-12-09 01:52 PM)

Re: Removing power steering

ifb_mole wrote:
Loren wrote:

Leave the power steering in.  Max out the caster and add a touch of toe-out if you want more steering feel/responsiveness.

Loren,

How do you "max out" castor on a McPherson strut car without purchasing parts?  Can an alignment shop "shim" it or something?  More castor would help and we already have a wee bit of toe out, but the steering is still "numb".

Mole, I consider Lemons more or less war of the wrenchers.

There tends to be the right way (SCCA way) to do things, then there's the Lemons way.

McPherson struts adjustability is based on the chassis and how they are used.  Not specifically on the fact that they are McPherson struts.

You have to look at what you have, what you want to do and figure out how to make that happen.  There may be parts you can buy but this is Lemons.

Brute force, heat, mechanical abilities and fabrication skills all come in to play here.

Time to start doing some head scratching.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Removing power steering

LTDScott wrote:

Just make sure you check your steering shaft/coupler/flex disc, right?

Or just remove it altogether.

The Sharks
Home of the E28 Turbo Tuner Fish and the Hammered Head 944 Turbo

Re: Removing power steering

ifb_mole wrote:
Loren wrote:

Leave the power steering in.  Max out the caster and add a touch of toe-out if you want more steering feel/responsiveness.

Loren,

How do you "max out" castor on a MacPherson strut car without purchasing parts?  Can an alignment shop "shim" it or something?  More castor would help and we already have a wee bit of toe out, but the steering is still "numb".

First, quit spending money on alignment shops.  This is Lemons.  Learn to take a few simple measurements for yourself.

Caster can be adjusted with a strut suspension in the same way camber is.  For extra camber, you slot the bolt holes at the top of the strut tower inward so that the whole works can be tilted inward giving more static camber.  To increase caster, you want to tilt the top of the assembly more rearward (correct me if I have that backwards, guys), so angle your camber slots in that direction and you'll get more caster.

The exact numbers aren't critical for Lemons racing, just try to do the same thing on each side so that caster and camber are close to the same left and right, and be sure to reset your toe when you're done.

Lemons South 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Spring 2009 - Fail, Lemons Detroit(ish) 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Fall 2009 - Fail, Lamest Day 2009 - Fail, Miami 2010 (Chump) - 2nd!, Sebring 2010 (Chump) - Fail, Cuba 2010 - Crew Chief, Roebling 2011 (Chump) - 8th!, Sebring 2011(Chump) - 19th!

Re: Removing power steering

I'll keep PS just going to add a cooler so it does not over heat and boil out agaon, other than that it was nice to have.  Flame me.

-Mike
Junk Works Racing Team Captain
Lemons South Spring '09 SR-71 BlackBird Finisher
Southern Discomfort '10 E-30ata 4th place