• From: Colorado Springs Co.
  • Registered: 2013-09-24
  • Posts: 807

Re: Total and utter domination, coming to a racetrack near you in 2014

Is it sad that I want several of those adapters for DD projects? This from the guy who drives a Cummins powered Jeep....with a Ford ZF 5 speed......with a Dodge 208 transfercase. Just have to. I just can't help it.

Captain of the Speedholes Wrenching #365 1965 Rambler Marlin and owner of the "Cockroach 454 Chevy Bigblock". Collector Emeritus of awful crapcans.
Earned every finish with Blood, Sweat, Tears,  Smoked brakes,dead wheelbearings, two blower explosions, and a never-ending thirst for more fuel. Finished em all! Currently hiding in a secret base in the shadow of the "Race to the Clouds".
  • tSoG
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
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  • From: the Hill, PA
  • Registered: 2011-06-10
  • Posts: 2,100

Re: Total and utter domination, coming to a racetrack near you in 2014

Firebelly wrote:
philikon wrote:

(Tangent: has anybody ever run a TDI in Lemons?)

Smokey unit (1980 fiat spider) won the Kershaw County Mosquito Abatement Trophy at the Fall South race. 
They swapped a TDI into the Fiat and made it vary difficult to follow them, as there was a heavy cloud of diesel particulate and turbo oil.
But they looked good doing it.

has anyone confirmed this was actually a tdi and not just an earlier indirect injection turbo diesel?

therood wrote:
philikon wrote:

We were strongly considering Diesel as well. My favourite option would've been the 90s era VW TDI (Porsche 911. Turbo. Diesel.), but try to find a sucker within budget! Not to mention getting spares. (Tangent: has anybody ever run a TDI in Lemons?)

Looking for a budget TDI? Talk to tSoG.

Some of the Focke Ewe guys (F40Jim, I believe, is related to the team somehow) debuted a TDI swap in a Mk. 2 Golf this year. Maybe it was a Mk. 3. And maybe F40Jim wasn't involved.

Anyway, someone did it this year, but it'd be amazing in a Porsche.

idunno much about porsches, but tdi is completely possible in rear engined setups. it is what i will do if i ever find another cheap 911

dead rabbit society: cultured 'n shit.
  • From: Pepperell MA
  • Registered: 2009-12-06
  • Posts: 536

Re: Total and utter domination, coming to a racetrack near you in 2014

tSoG wrote:
Firebelly wrote:
philikon wrote:

(Tangent: has anybody ever run a TDI in Lemons?)

Smokey unit (1980 fiat spider) won the Kershaw County Mosquito Abatement Trophy at the Fall South race. 
They swapped a TDI into the Fiat and made it vary difficult to follow them, as there was a heavy cloud of diesel particulate and turbo oil.
But they looked good doing it.

has anyone confirmed this was actually a tdi and not just an earlier indirect injection turbo diesel?

therood wrote:
philikon wrote:

We were strongly considering Diesel as well. My favourite option would've been the 90s era VW TDI (Porsche 911. Turbo. Diesel.), but try to find a sucker within budget! Not to mention getting spares. (Tangent: has anybody ever run a TDI in Lemons?)

Looking for a budget TDI? Talk to tSoG.

Some of the Focke Ewe guys (F40Jim, I believe, is related to the team somehow) debuted a TDI swap in a Mk. 2 Golf this year. Maybe it was a Mk. 3. And maybe F40Jim wasn't involved.

Anyway, someone did it this year, but it'd be amazing in a Porsche.

idunno much about porsches, but tdi is completely possible in rear engined setups. it is what i will do if i ever find another cheap 911

FJ40Jim is indeed involved with the Focke Ewe guys - he is the team captain...  Yes, a TDI into an A2 Golf - but one of the other guys did the swap not FJ40Jim.  Yes, it was hella fun to run that car are NJMP this fall.  Pretty sure the Smoky Unit had a real TDI first but it took them a few races to get the wiring/computer/dash/pedals to talk to each other to make it go kinda right.  This was not the first TDI our team has messed with - just the first in a Lemons car.

Nick
Focke Ewe racing -> Muttonheads! Racing -> Torque Junkies
86ish VW GTI...now with TDI Powah!
  • From: Houston, TX
  • Registered: 2009-05-05
  • Posts: 109

Re: Total and utter domination, coming to a racetrack near you in 2014

The ideal engine should be like for like, from something rear engined and air cooled, but utter shite - however ignoring the obvious VW.  Here are some non-Corvair suggestions:

2 or more Fiat 500/126 units
Fiat 850
Skoda Estelle/Rapide
Hillman Imp
Tatra

Peter
GATORAMA 2009: Engine Broke. No Problems 2011: Car broke
GATORAMA 2013: Austin America, Built did not break. Eagles Canyon 2014: Car broke, replaced engine, broke it
Arizona D-Bags 2016: Broke, repaired, still running
  • Registered: 2009-06-10
  • Posts: 558

Re: Total and utter domination, coming to a racetrack near you in 2014

Judge Phil wrote:

Yeah, a Chrysler LH engine would be ideal. Do it!

May I humbly suggest an even _more_ ideal engine?

Perhaps a engine with, much like the 911, a proven racing history, and heritage?

Perhaps a Mitsubishi 6G72, out of a recently DOMINATING Chrysler product? smile

  • From: San Francisco, CA
  • Registered: 2012-03-07
  • Posts: 307

Re: Total and utter domination, coming to a racetrack near you in 2014

JThw8 wrote:

EJ22 is well below the power thresholds of the bug trans.  It will hold slightly north of 200hp without much complaint,

That isn't what I've been told by virtually everybody who races VWs. Stock transaxles are typically only good up to about 100 hp. After that you start breaking things. Since we really only use 3rd and 4th, we keep breaking things on the 3rd and 4th gear shaft. First the synchros let go, then the gears. The usual remedy is to replace the keys on those gears with hardened ones and tack weld them to the synchro hubs.

Our first transaxle held together for along time (3 races or so), so it's possible that you get lucky. Maybe we were also a lot more gentle. smile

Go surf the samba for a cheap KEP adapter, whatever motor it fits, use that smile  The cheap ones are usually for stuff like Pintos or old toyota motors, loads of fun.

Haha, yeah, I'm keeping an eye out for Kennedy adapters. That's how the whole Subie conversion for the Bug started.

Hella Shitty Racing -- Premium Crapcan Racing since 2010!
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  • From: San Francisco, CA
  • Registered: 2012-03-07
  • Posts: 307

Re: Total and utter domination, coming to a racetrack near you in 2014

zebrabeefj40 wrote:

FJ40Jim is indeed involved with the Focke Ewe guys - he is the team captain...  Yes, a TDI into an A2 Golf - but one of the other guys did the swap not FJ40Jim.  Yes, it was hella fun to run that car are NJMP this fall.  Pretty sure the Smoky Unit had a real TDI first but it took them a few races to get the wiring/computer/dash/pedals to talk to each other to make it go kinda right.  This was not the first TDI our team has messed with - just the first in a Lemons car.

We would love to do a TDI, but we haven't been able to find a donor in budget. The problem with California is that there are no rust buckets, diesels last forever, and everybody loves the TDI (rightly so), so even a '98 Jetta with a million miles can't be had for under $2k. Going to insurance auctions to buy a wrecked one will only be a few hundred dollars cheaper, it seems.

If anybody has a lead on a TDI in the SF Bay Area, please let us know!

Hella Shitty Racing -- Premium Crapcan Racing since 2010!
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  • From: San Francisco, CA
  • Registered: 2012-03-07
  • Posts: 307

Re: Total and utter domination, coming to a racetrack near you in 2014

Bloody-Brit wrote:

The ideal engine should be like for like, from something rear engined and air cooled, but utter shite - however ignoring the obvious VW.  Here are some non-Corvair suggestions:

2 or more Fiat 500/126 units
Fiat 850
Skoda Estelle/Rapide
Hillman Imp
Tatra

I would put a Tatra V8 in this thing in a heartbeat. Got a spare one? tongue

Hella Shitty Racing -- Premium Crapcan Racing since 2010!
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- Ferdinand the Bug (2x class C, 1x class B, IoE)
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  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 9,416

Re: Total and utter domination, coming to a racetrack near you in 2014

The Subaru swap is kinda boring, been done in too many Vanagons and so forth. Do something that will really enrage the Porsche Jihad.

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  • From: Colorado Springs Co.
  • Registered: 2013-09-24
  • Posts: 807

Re: Total and utter domination, coming to a racetrack near you in 2014

I'd vote for a Northstar V8 mid mounted. No fail there! Don't forget the coolant additive/compressed beavershit pills GM requires as "Maintenace" Keeps the headgaskets alive till out of warranty....

Captain of the Speedholes Wrenching #365 1965 Rambler Marlin and owner of the "Cockroach 454 Chevy Bigblock". Collector Emeritus of awful crapcans.
Earned every finish with Blood, Sweat, Tears,  Smoked brakes,dead wheelbearings, two blower explosions, and a never-ending thirst for more fuel. Finished em all! Currently hiding in a secret base in the shadow of the "Race to the Clouds".

61 Reply by 3pe

  • 3pe
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  • Registered: 2013-08-24
  • Posts: 291

Re: Total and utter domination, coming to a racetrack near you in 2014

Rotary everything porsche would hate, or worse Toyota 4 banger

  • From: New Orleans, LA
  • Registered: 2009-05-16
  • Posts: 635

Re: Total and utter domination, coming to a racetrack near you in 2014

http://images.craigslist.org/00y0y_cCTryBUX64M_600x450.jpg

http://spokane.craigslist.org/bar/4167467171.html

I thought we'd already gone over this?

-=Tom

-=HFC Tom
  • From: Atlanta
  • Registered: 2011-01-22
  • Posts: 507

Re: Total and utter domination, coming to a racetrack near you in 2014

Judge Phil wrote:

The Subaru swap is kinda boring, been done in too many Vanagons and so forth. Do something that will really enrage the Porsche Jihad.

I vote for the venerable Quad4.  They fit in Fieros after all....

Mike
Hong Norrth
#39 TRON Gray/Orange MX-3, aka "Sumbich"
  • From: Conroe, TX
  • Registered: 2012-07-20
  • Posts: 240

Re: Total and utter domination, coming to a racetrack near you in 2014

philikon wrote:

I would put a Tatra V8 in this thing in a heartbeat. Got a spare one? tongue

Do you have any idea how much those things weigh?  I energetically disassembled an engine hoist when pulling mine, and hired a boom truck to put it back in.  2200 RPM redline, yo.  They balanced those things by chiseling off chunks of the bronze con rod caps.  Ball bearing mains, too, big suckers with oil sprayers pointed at 'em.

12 liters of air-cooled V8 fun, though.  22 quarts of oil.

-jt
Unionized Physicist
Tetanus Racing
1986 Porsche 944, #986
  • Registered: 2011-11-14
  • Posts: 192

Re: Total and utter domination, coming to a racetrack near you in 2014

Rear engine, front wheel drive. I can almost guarantee zero penalties. Make it work.

Next Rally Car: An abandoned 1972 Opel GT (Plan-B: My late grandparent's 1996 Chevrolet Caprice Classic)
Previous Rally Cars: 1971 Opel Kadett, 1988 Chevrolet Cavalier Z24, 1998 Volvo V90 (5.0L), 1965 Ford Galaxie 500 (turbocharged 351W)
  • From: Chicago, IL
  • Registered: 2010-08-12
  • Posts: 375

Re: Total and utter domination, coming to a racetrack near you in 2014

Red0ktober wrote:

Rear engine, front wheel drive. I can almost guarantee zero penalties. Make it work.

A rear-engine, Chrysler-powered front-drive 911... They might give you bonus laps.

15x+ Loser, thinks he's a Real Racer(tm)
Rotaries are great, everyone should try them.
  • From: Victoria, BC
  • Registered: 2012-06-18
  • Posts: 442

Re: Total and utter domination, coming to a racetrack near you in 2014

Put the engine where it's supposed to be, at the front.

Silversleeves Racing https://www.facebook.com/groups/487324281329732
Ford/Lotus Cortina #41, Austin Mini #42, MG1100 #44, Barbie's Corvette #44, Mazda Miata #48, Austin 1800 #49
  • From: San Francisco, CA
  • Registered: 2012-03-07
  • Posts: 307

Re: Total and utter domination, coming to a racetrack near you in 2014

jimthefirst wrote:
philikon wrote:

I would put a Tatra V8 in this thing in a heartbeat. Got a spare one? tongue

Do you have any idea how much those things weigh?  I energetically disassembled an engine hoist when pulling mine, and hired a boom truck to put it back in.  2200 RPM redline, yo.  They balanced those things by chiseling off chunks of the bronze con rod caps.  Ball bearing mains, too, big suckers with oil sprayers pointed at 'em.

12 liters of air-cooled V8 fun, though.  22 quarts of oil.

LOL that sounds like one of their truck motors... I'm talking about the 3.5l air-cooled V8 out of the 603/613. Honestly, that'd be the perfect motor for this car. Kind of an alternate universe sort of combination.

Hella Shitty Racing -- Premium Crapcan Racing since 2010!
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  • From: Conroe, TX
  • Registered: 2012-07-20
  • Posts: 240

Re: Total and utter domination, coming to a racetrack near you in 2014

philikon wrote:

LOL that sounds like one of their truck motors...

Truck motor, you say...

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5497/10874754063_d42a00f7f8.jpg

-jt
Unionized Physicist
Tetanus Racing
1986 Porsche 944, #986
  • From: Romeoville, IL
  • Registered: 2009-12-12
  • Posts: 1,117

Re: Total and utter domination, coming to a racetrack near you in 2014

Get this guy on your team.
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/ … 448/page1/

Sounds like all you need to do is get a massive trans cooler, and reflash the TCM for a Prowler program to hold 3rd gear to redline. Find like 3 running/driving LH cars for like $10ea. Have complete extra drivetrains ready to go with the twist of 4 bolts and BMW electrical bulkhead connectors.

The Charnal House Geo MetSHO: Turning less laps than a regular Metro, the hard way!

1969 Subaru 360

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  • JThw8
  • JThw8
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  • Registered: 2009-06-10
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Re: Total and utter domination, coming to a racetrack near you in 2014

philikon wrote:
JThw8 wrote:

EJ22 is well below the power thresholds of the bug trans.  It will hold slightly north of 200hp without much complaint,

That isn't what I've been told by virtually everybody who races VWs. Stock transaxles are typically only good up to about 100 hp. After that you start breaking things. Since we really only use 3rd and 4th, we keep breaking things on the 3rd and 4th gear shaft. First the synchros let go, then the gears. The usual remedy is to replace the keys on those gears with hardened ones and tack weld them to the synchro hubs.

Our first transaxle held together for along time (3 races or so), so it's possible that you get lucky. Maybe we were also a lot more gentle. smile

Eh, for the EJ22 I can just go on personal experience, survived 24HOL at summit without issue and it wasn't babied, then a lot of very hard launches on the drag strip, never an issue, and over 5000 street driven miles on it as well, all on a used stock transaxle with unknown history and mileage.

Local VW club guru who's been drag racing them longer than I've been alive was putting down close to 200hp on stock transaxles without issue throughout the years.

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

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  • JThw8
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  • Registered: 2009-06-10
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Re: Total and utter domination, coming to a racetrack near you in 2014

Judge Phil wrote:

The Subaru swap is kinda boring, been done in too many Vanagons and so forth. Do something that will really enrage the Porsche Jihad.

Mission accomplished
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1975-Porsche-91 … 7675.l2557

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

JThw8's Website

  • From: San Francisco, CA
  • Registered: 2012-03-07
  • Posts: 307

Re: Total and utter domination, coming to a racetrack near you in 2014

JThw8 wrote:

Eh, for the EJ22 I can just go on personal experience, survived 24HOL at summit without issue and it wasn't babied, then a lot of very hard launches on the drag strip, never an issue, and over 5000 street driven miles on it as well, all on a used stock transaxle with unknown history and mileage.

Guess you got exceptionally lucky and we got exceptionally unlucky. Or maybe we're beating on the poor thing harder than we should...

Hella Shitty Racing -- Premium Crapcan Racing since 2010!
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  • JThw8
  • JThw8
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  • From: Mullica Hill, NJ
  • Registered: 2009-06-10
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Re: Total and utter domination, coming to a racetrack near you in 2014

philikon wrote:
JThw8 wrote:

Eh, for the EJ22 I can just go on personal experience, survived 24HOL at summit without issue and it wasn't babied, then a lot of very hard launches on the drag strip, never an issue, and over 5000 street driven miles on it as well, all on a used stock transaxle with unknown history and mileage.

Guess you got exceptionally lucky and we got exceptionally unlucky. Or maybe we're beating on the poor thing harder than we should...

Do you have any kind of a Kafer bar arrangement?  It takes some of the strain off the trans since the motor is hanging from it.  It may be one of the things that prolonged our life.  And solid mounts for the trans.  Although those thing usually just help save the CV joints not so much the trans but limiting all the strain and motion probably couldn't hurt.

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

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75 Reply by stimpyvan (edited by stimpyvan 2013-11-15 04:17 PM)

  • From: Very Rainy Washington State
  • Registered: 2011-06-27
  • Posts: 1,157

Re: Total and utter domination, coming to a racetrack near you in 2014

Phil, I think I've got a winner for you and at only $300, it's Lemons $$$.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/pts/4194264383.html

This one isn't a TDI, but it is a diesel, and with 504 c.i., who needs a turbo anyway?

http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/pts/4194221972.html

You're welcome!

~Van

13X losers (or is 14 now?) refusing to learn from our failures.
Organizer's Choice!  Trophy should have a bottle opener on it.