The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Tech → Why the 190 Treadwear Requirement?
This conversation is still going on? Wheels aren't part of the budget. Can't get tires in your stock wheel size? Plus up for cryin' out loud. There are very few cars out there that you can't fit a set of 16" or 17" wheels under, and you get a lower, stiffer sidewall to go with them.
We've run 16s and 17s on the MR2. No problem finding tires with those wheels...
We have just put our 205/15's on custom made 15x8's with a 4 inch back space.
Yes folks, that's a track width increase of over 6 inches!!
KT
semi related...I'm used to having cars I can fit plenty of tire under.
what i'm looking at for a car came with 175 width 14 inchers stock.
if i'm running a ~2000-2200lb (fully prepped with driver) car, are 205's going to be enough grip to keep me out of trouble?
205's are plenty.
KT
Mac,
Most 15" 200ish treadwear tires are available in a 205/50r15. That's the Spec Miata tire size.
Miatas do very well on that size. Miatas are light without a lot of power (115-120 hp). They have a great suspension system and get a lot of grip out of 205s.
They do run wider rubber on more powerful Miatas.
Depending on how much power your are trying to put to the pavement is also going to affect how the tires perform for you.
The Dunlop Direzza star spec Z1's I am going to go down and see if the narrower tire will fit our wheels.
Troy - I did find any 200ish 205/50R15 tires available. The deal with China has removed the stock of all of them. This is why lower to 180 would be great help because there is no longer tires between 180 and 300
I just checked on vulcantire.com, they have plenty of Azenis available in 205/50/15.
Mac,
Most 15" 200ish treadwear tires are available in a 205/50r15. That's the Spec Miata tire size.
Miatas do very well on that size. Miatas are light without a lot of power (115-120 hp). They have a great suspension system and get a lot of grip out of 205s.
They do run wider rubber on more powerful Miatas.
Depending on how much power your are trying to put to the pavement is also going to affect how the tires perform for you.
the car i'm looking for has ~97bhp from the factory. Our team has plans of trying to make in the area of 200-225bhp.
I have no idea just how much tire i can fit under this car yet, but I'm willing to bet not much. it comes with 175mm 14's from the factory.
I think i would like to do 225's if i could. Lot's of variables though.
Tullamore,
Dunlop is adding a few tires sizes to the Star Spec Z1 line in early 2010. They will be adding a 205/50r15. A notable fact about the Star Spec Z1 is it is intended to be a road worthy track tire for guys who drive their cars to DE events than track the car and drive home. While we are doing much longer session than a DE, this is geared more toward our overall use then the Azenis. These are one of the more expensive tire options within our rules.
Hankook HAD a 225/45ish-r15 in the R-S2 line which they discontinued and replaced with the R-S3. The R-S3 is a 140 treadwear and no longer Lemons legal. The Hankook has done well in Lemons and is probably better than the Azenis. They can get hot and a bit greasy during a race. My friend swears his changed colors.
The Falken Azenis is pretty much a staple in Lemons. They are reasonably priced and perform well for some teams. Falken is changing the compound in the RT-615 with the introduction of the RT-615K. We will just have to wait and see how the new compound affects it's track-worthiness.
The Azenis seem to have a love it or hate it opinion within the Lemons community. The tire's strong reputation is from AutoX. Earnign them a high ranking by GRM for AutoX. We are road racing in enduros so our demands on tires are different. The teams that seem to like them are teams with smaller lighter cars. The Taurus SHO puts a beating on it's tires and the Azenis has mixed reviews on the SHO.
The reason I posed the question regarding the 190 treadwear limit was because it is set by the manufacturer not DOT or any other 3rd party. I am not suggesting we all start running slicks but if the limit was 180, we would have better tire options.
There are a few 200 treadwear tires with very limited 14" & 15" sizes. From there they jump to the 300 range. At the 300-400 treadwear range, you do start to see more options in the smaller tires sizes. I currently run the Toyo T1R which is a 280 treadwear. They do okay but I think the Hankook would have been better. I am leaning toward the Star Spec Z1 now, I wish they offered a 225 or wider in a 15. So I am looking to up size my wheels now.
Troy I completely agree with everything you are saying, I have been seeing the same results in the searches I have been doing for tires.
Oh noes! Troy has an acolyte! 
Oh noes! Troy has an acolyte!
Acolyte, I had to look that up.
Damn attorneys and their overly complicated vocabulary. That's why they get paid so much. They decipher long legal crap that takes pages upon pages to simply say "you got screwed." Moist towelettes are available in the bathroom down the hall. Now pay the secretary on your way out.
Regarding an acolyte, just cause we agree don't make anyone an acolyte in this equation. How's that fer sum fancy writin?
So... Acolyte = Yes Man?
The reason that lawyers get paid so much is because they have these jedi mind powers that convince you that the ability to pithily summarize complicated situations is of great value to you. Using words like "acolyte" and "pithily" in their correct context supports your belief.
If the treadwear rule went to 290, there would be lots of good 13-14 and 15-inch options....and better racing. Cheaper too.
If the treadwear rule went to 290, there would be lots of good 13-14 and 15-inch options....and better racing. Cheaper too.
400, no 600!
If we're all on bricks, then who needs an e30 when a Crosley will put the same power to the ground? Grippy tires just make easier work of the driving.
Sayyy, when will we have Lemons at a European style rallycross track?
We're running solid forklift tires... Treadwear 8000.
KT
Funny, this thread started out with "if you went to 180 we could get better 18-inch tires," and now it's "if you went to 400 you could get better 13-inch tires." I'd wager a bet that the same two people would have this discussion:
"If that band went to 18-inch bass drivers they'd friggin tear this building APART" versus "If that band went acoustic they'd sound a lot more like the Kingston Trio, and we could all sit around and have a Hootenanny."
Insert appropriate Spinal Tap reference here...
Please stop trying to make Lemons change it's tire rules! The tire rules are just fine. One of the things that should be a consideration when selecting a car is weather you can get tires for it that will fit into the rules. It's not like the rules changed after you got your car. If the rules change now, it will leave those racers who where smart enough to pick a car that can run tires that fit the current rules S.O.L.. How is this a good idea?
If you are having trouble getting the right size rims for your Borgward then perhaps it's not the rules that are the problem.
I have a headache.......
The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Tech → Why the 190 Treadwear Requirement?