The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Tech → ebay coilovers = penalty laps?
I think if you got a bit motivated, you could modify a stock strut housing to use a stock lower spring perch with a coil over adjuster and have adjustable stock springs.
That's a common first-gen RX-7 mod, but we use 400lb/in front springs instead of the stockers.
MurileeMartin wrote:All this whining about BS penalty laps would be meaningless if everyone would just bring real Lemons cars. Volvo 544s! Fiat 128s! Kaiser Henry Js!
We try, but all these other boobs keep jamming up the track with their E30s and Civics and other piles...
We have no problem with Civics, as long as they're pre-1980 examples.
Not sure how good they are or how long they last (most Civics blow the head gasket and/or throw a rod early on and give the suspension a nice break while the team drives the tow vehicle to the next county to buy parts), but you probably get what you pay for.
i daily drove and autoXed my miata on a set of $30 (shipped) ebay coilover sleeves (swapped out the springs for good ones) for two years with no issues. so i'd say that at least the aluminum sleeves seem to be OK.
ronman wrote:MurileeMartin wrote:All this whining about BS penalty laps would be meaningless if everyone would just bring real Lemons cars. Volvo 544s! Fiat 128s! Kaiser Henry Js!
We try, but all these other boobs keep jamming up the track with their E30s and Civics and other piles...
We have no problem with Civics, as long as they're pre-1980 examples.
They'd get about 1.8 laps before loosing the head gasket.
I love 70's hondas, but the engines had major HG issues.
Now a F22 or something might be rather nice.
We have no problem with Civics, as long as they're pre-1980 examples.
This is why we describe our car as a 1988 Cessna.
I ran 2G DSM eBay coilover sleeves on the Daihatsu, worked pretty well with the stiff springs in the back a'la Koni Challenge cars.
Worked great, we had plenty of roll stiffness with the stock swaybars and were able to hit a curb if necessary without upsetting the crappy balance of the car.
My $500 car was bought with old after market springs/shocks and we got BS laps so remember BS laps are not based on anything but the whims of the BS judges so it will be a crap shoot even with the reciepts and shipping bill.
No, your SEVEN HUNDRED DOLLAR CAR was bought for $500.
BIG difference.
Successfully negotiating a price from $700 to $500 is violating the rules or grounds for BS laps? Almost every price on cars are negotiable, the rules say $500 so that's all I was going to pay for the car, that's all I COULD pay for the car. It's NOT what the seller is asking for the car, it's what you finally PAY for the car that counts, isn't it?
Successfully negotiating a price from $700 to $500 is violating the rules or grounds for BS laps? Almost every price on cars are negotiable, the rules say $500 so that's all I was going to pay for the car, that's all I COULD pay for the car. It's NOT what the seller is asking for the car, it's what you finally PAY for the car that counts, isn't it?
Where do they offer degrees in foot-in-mouth?
You got the price reduced because the guy selling it was going to be on your time!!!
That's why you got the BS laps. He lowered the price for his own advantage.
What part of that don't you get?
Where do they offer degrees in foot-in-mouth?
My degree does not list foot-in-mouth, but I am sure it is in fine print as a minor somehwere.
Where do they offer degrees in foot-in-mouth?
You got the price reduced because the guy selling it was going to be on your time!!!
That's why you got the BS laps. He lowered the price for his own advantage.
What part of that don't you get?
I think it's new avatar time!!
Johnny - the price was negotiated BEFORE being on the team was discussed. He simply liked the whole idea of his car "going out" in a Lemons race rather than some gear head buying it for parts and then the eventual scrap heap. Since he never made it on the team anyway, why would that even be a factor?
Mole, plenty of guys are willing to donate/sell a car cheap to a team they are going to be on or that they might end up being on. This ain't going to help your case and even mentioning anything about this is going to get the BS meter rolling.
You would have been worse off if the guy had been there on your team whether you paid $500 or $700.
I am not the best person to explain to you the finer points of knowing when to keep your mouth shut but you should have done it during BS and now might be a good time too.
Next time you buy a cheap car for less than the advertised price, which will pretty much be every time, bring an add listing. Have a Bill of Sale for the actual price you paid. Do not get the current owner involved in being on your team unless you are paying the listed asking price and even then you might want to be quiet about this.
Other good ideas are to photograph the car as you first see it and get pictures of the included cheaty parts. Somehow I never end up with my camera at the time of purchase and it's usually at night. So get pics of your new prized turd early before you start doing anything with it.
The sooner you get over your BS inspection, the more likely Jonny might forget about it. At this point, I think it's seared into his gray matter so you're screwed.
So how about them eBay coil overs?
Troy,
I realize that NOW, but for the most part that's what I did, I had photos, the ad, emails, bill of sale, etc. Had the price been contingent on the sellers inclusion on the team then the BS laps would have been justified since that is a rules violation and I used that "carrot" to manipulate the seller to go lower, that was not the case. He wanted to know why $500 was the max I could pay, I told him about Lemons and he thought it was really cool and agreed to the price. Yes, I showed Johnny the emails that said he was in for the race BUT they were AFTER the emails discussing the price and why $500 was the cap. I know now that Johnny has a lot of cars to inspect and simply can't inspect them for a long time, he has to make a judgement call and I had the plead my case the best I could with the limited time I had.
Thanks for the post. What about the eBay coilovers? Hay if you have room under the $500 cap, then caveat emptor with cheap eBay stuff, if you buy the car with some mods then well, be prepared for bs laps, it's that simple. I wish I had known that going in, but like others have said , in the whole scope of the event bs laps are not nearly as costly as black flags, bad pit work and over aggressive driving.
Dude, at this point TROY is telling you to shut up!
....like others have said , in the whole scope of the event bs laps are not nearly as costly as black flags, bad pit work and over aggressive driving.
That my friends is the gospel. I doubt you can many examples of the 2nd place car losing because of their BS penalty laps.
"Carrot"
Yup, you got screwed. (It's called Lemons.) Now we can move on. For instance, I love how you were able to weave the totally random usage of word "Carrot" into a racing thread.
I do like me some carrots.
I don't think we got "screwed" at all. Ultimately our demise was too many blag flags, not the bs laps. My point is you never know what the bs judges will or will not hand out for bs laps. It is what it is. That's the point of this trhread, the eBay coilovers, if you buy them,even with paper work, you MAY still get bs laps furthermore "buyer beware" with low price imported coilovers from eBay. It is possible to get stung twice - bs laps and a crappy product.
I don't think we got "screwed" at all. Ultimately our demise was too many blag flags, not the bs laps ... It is what it is.
Mark it 12/6/09, 2:01 PM, Dude.
No it is possible to predict BS laps. You can't do it because you are too entrenched in your structured thinking to realize what BS is and how a freaking hela-cheating Mustang can get through BS with no laps and some other "true" $500 car will get 20.
consider it on record for all eternity
No it is possible to predict BS laps. You can't do it because you are too entrenched in your structured thinking to realize what BS is and how a freaking hela-cheating Mustang can get through BS with no laps and some other "true" $500 car will get 20.
While I certainly didn't understand BS for our first race, I do have nice suspension without penalty laps.
We did have cash, babes and beer.
Troy,
I realize that NOW, but for the most part that's what I did, I had photos, the ad, emails, bill of sale, etc. Had the price been contingent on the sellers inclusion on the team then the BS laps would have been justified since that is a rules violation and I used that "carrot" to manipulate the seller to go lower, that was not the case. He wanted to know why $500 was the max I could pay, I told him about Lemons and he thought it was really cool and agreed to the price. Yes, I showed Johnny the emails that said he was in for the race BUT they were AFTER the emails discussing the price and why $500 was the cap. I know now that Johnny has a lot of cars to inspect and simply can't inspect them for a long time, he has to make a judgement call and I had the plead my case the best I could with the limited time I had.
Thanks for the post. What about the eBay coilovers? Hay if you have room under the $500 cap, then caveat emptor with cheap eBay stuff, if you buy the car with some mods then well, be prepared for bs laps, it's that simple. I wish I had known that going in, but like others have said , in the whole scope of the event bs laps are not nearly as costly as black flags, bad pit work and over aggressive driving.
Last comment (I hope) on this:
You KNEW BEFORE THE RACE that you were going to get laps! I told you, others told you. You refused to believe it because you think we're all stupid and you're the only smart one around and can sneak by the rules and the idea behind Lemons. You keep arguing in exactly the same way. You still think we're all stupid and you mistakenly got BS laps because of a mix up in judging. The Judges are smart, dare I say.. smarter than you. This is NOT their first rodeo! They know how much cars cost in general, and how much cheaty parts cost. You had a high dollar car with cheaty parts. Hello BS laps. Even the S600 guys have a much more believable story than you!!
I don't think we got "screwed" at all. Ultimately our demise was too many blag flags, not the bs laps. My point is you never know what the bs judges will or will not hand out for bs laps. It is what it is. That's the point of this trhread, the eBay coilovers, if you buy them,even with paper work, you MAY still get bs laps furthermore "buyer beware" with low price imported coilovers from eBay. It is possible to get stung twice - bs laps and a crappy product.
I think you were unfairly penalized but I'm sure that kind of thing doesn't happen very often. The judges will certainly see the error of their ways and smile upon your car the next time they see you at BS. I suggest you enter a similarly prepped Miata or E30 325is with Ebay coilovers.
I did not KNOW it, I knew it was POSSIBLE but NOT a foregone conclusion. NO, I never said any one was stupid or I was trying to pull something over on the judges (i.e cheating). I didn't say there was a mix-up either. I understand now that just because you get a car for $500 and it has some after market parts on it, that does NOT mean you won't get BS laps, even with paperwork.
I guess I was in denial that I wasn't going to get BS laps cuzz I DID get the car for $500, I DID have pix and paperwork, but because the "judges are smarter than me" (your words) I got BS laps because it was too good of a deal and had too good of mods on it (i.e unbelievabley good) and the judges thought that this car could be "too good" so they had to issue BS laps to handicap the car in case it really was a super fast car. OK now I know how it works. I am fine with that, that's how the system is set-up.
It was not unfair it is how Lemons works for EVERYONE, our team was not exempt from bs judging or treated wrongly or unfair nor did we get screwed, it is what it is. It is the allegations that we willfully and knowingly cheated that I don't like.
The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Tech → ebay coilovers = penalty laps?