The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Tech → New fuel capacity rule question/clarification:
Dear whoever-the-tech-Tsar is:
Can I turn my pre-existing 32 gallon fuel cell into a 24 gallon cell by adding an object to displace the delta in volume?
You know, something sensible like scrap iron with sharp edges (kidding). Seriously though, say something like 8 gallons of fuel tolerant ping pong balls.
danke
-Rich
Try sand!
2x4s
We used to have a generator at work that took 2 quarts less oil than all the rest. The oil pan started leaking more than usual and when we dropped it, it had a 4x4 in it. The 4x4 never caused any problems other than a lack of oil capacity.
Try sand!
sand is way too fluid. concrete will fill the space and no worries of possible expansion.
Most race supply shops sell balls or blocks that won't degrade and take up volume when inserted into a fuel cell. It's a pretty easy solution to your problem... I think you can find some cheaper as well.
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/group. … CELLBLOCKS
I like this new rule.....since my theory on buying a mondo fuel cell just got cancelled... a few more $$$$ for other things!!
Didn't somebody at some point use inflatable bladders that they would then deflate at some point during the race to get that extra fuel capacity back?
I'm not saying anyone would do that in Lemons, though. Naaaaw. Never.
What I want to know is how exactly are they going to enforce this rule? I imagine filling the tank and then draining it at tech is probably not the solution they're looking for. My guess (based on how Lemons typically enforces rules) is that if it looks bigger than 24 gallons it won't pass, ping pong balls or no.
Although watching fill-ups would work. When you start putting the 6th 5-gallon can in, they might start asking questions.
Don't think we can do 2 hours on 24 gallons of fuel.
Don't think we can do 2 hours on 24 gallons of fuel.
if you put a smaller carb on the 360 I think you could?
Our 928 could stay out for around between 1:45-2:15 on a full tank of 22 gallons....I originally estimated it at around 10 gallons per hour...
could there be some sort of displacement/fuel rule?
we were building a rotary knowing it would guzzle fuel with a bigger tank in mind, now we have a 2/3 built car that is gonna have to stop for gas every 2 hours....
could there be some sort of displacement/fuel rule?
we were building a rotary knowing it would guzzle fuel with a bigger tank in mind, now we have a 2/3 built car that is gonna have to stop for gas every 2 hours....
um, most of the cars out there need to stop that often...what's the issue?
A 12a running flat out (way less traffic and yellows than at Lemons) uses 9 gallons an hour at TH, that's running constant 2:09ish times. I know this having raced the 25 hour in my 1st gen for years. If you're using a lot more than that, you've got a cheater motor... better bring some big bribes.
could there be some sort of displacement/fuel rule?
we were building a rotary knowing it would guzzle fuel with a bigger tank in mind, now we have a 2/3 built car that is gonna have to stop for gas every 2 hours....
I thought about this:
Basically you're saying: 'Gee, We've got this big, powerful motor and therefore we want to carry more fuel than everybody else so we can stay out longer, can we get an exception to the rule?'
That sounds really fair, ask Jay about it, see what he says........
I stayed out for 2.5 hours on ten gallons...
KT
umm....i dont know about you, but our team has four drivers. we're building our car for a true 24. so since you would like to tell me how things work on the car (since you're obviously helping me build it) we would rather not waste stops or our playtime. so lets think.
2 stints / driver with 4 drivers. lets do some basic math here.
24/(2*4)=...let me bust out the ti-83.....omg its 3!!
so in order to be efficient we should build a car to aim at 3 hour stints minimum to make 8 stops, so we'd want to build the car to run about 3.5 hours.
now using your 12a info (again since you know exactly what we're doing, not to mention we just picked up a 89 fc for $200 that doesn't run, putting us at a grand total of....$190 right now after selling our $50 car's engine/drivelines for $100 and our $100 fb's rear glass for $60, after which we'll mostly be done spending) we'll use your know-it-all set-in-stone 9gal/hour formula here, so 9x3 is...let me find the calculator...oh yeah 27. Now I need to subtract 27 from 22 and see if that works. let me take a break and eat some food/water, all this button pushing on my ti-83 is wearing me out. brb.
whew, that was tough. apparently 22-27 is -5. now geeeeeeeeeez , i wonder how this will affect all the foxbodies/v8 cars.
this is all about being fun, try not to be such a dick on the forum and tell people how they are cheating because of your ignorant assumptions as to their car build. its not very fun reading a post where someone is being a complete dick now is it? its just not needed here.
it was a legitimate question, and i was just curious. i think if you have a true sub $500 lemos car that has the mechanical ability to run 3 hours straight you should be allowed to have the fuel to do so.
Mike,
I know you guys have some racing experience. Do you have any experience running an enduro, let alone a 24 hour enduro?
In 24 Hour of LeMans, the one in France, those drivers are limited to quadruple stints. I thought a stint was 1 hour but may be been considered 45 minutes.
I am not aware of a time limit on a driver's stint in Lemons yet but 2 hours is typically considered pretty long.
I think the 24 gallon limit is fine. Unless the stock tank is larger. In which case I think you should be able use the stock tank limit.
The Snoopy van was probably 30+ gallons.
Needless to say Mike, your plans may be foiled by a supplemental rule for a 24 hour race or just a general rule change.
The reality is you are more likely to make a mistake doing a long stint resulting in a penalty.
You are also assuming your crap can can go 24 hours with nothing more then fuel and driver changes. The odds are even worse if it's the car's maiden voyage. It could happen and I could win the lotto too.
One problem with a large tank is it takes longer to fill it. So while you avoid stops, your stops will be longer.
One advantage to the larger tank is if you can run two drivers on one tank. I think the general rule at all tracks at this point is no one in the car during fueling. So if you can do a driver change and go, you save a lot of time during a pit.
If we go back to fueling while changing drivers, we can save time in the pits. Is the skin on the back of your neck worth a few minutes during a race?
We have a 12-15 gallon cell and run around 1 1/2 hours a stint which ends up working out pretty well.
I don't know much about fuel consumption of a rotary but I understand they are pretty small displacement with a thirst. They are irritatingly loud though.
I didn't know there was a limit, I just know we all want to drive really really really really really really bad, and we're buliding the car with reliability as the #1 priority, which is why we wen't with a n/a rotary ( with premix, pretty unbreakable with no mods) and an air pressure driven horn, and why we will use an electronic CD player to listen to sweet jamz.
We just wanted to cut down on driver swaps, our theory was stay out as long as possible = have the most fun. I just don't like the assumtion we're trying to cheat. thats stupid, have you seen our build thread? we have a subaru brat, don't you think wed've picked something we could put the motor behind the front axle if we wanted to destroy everyone?
Now is there a stint limit? I think that'd be a great rule in addition to the fuel cell rule so that way no car is scrutinized against with the fuel cell rule, also it'd even out the pit stops...
we're buliding the car with reliability as the #1 priority
Get a spare ignitor or two and cut the center out of your thermostat.
The rules (3.25 in particular) are pretty clear... Besides most cars have to stop at least every two hours or less.
I didn't know there was a limit..,
There is no stint limit. It is just that longer stints = more ass-hattery
...we're buliding the car with reliability as the #1 priority,
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Most teams try to build for reliability, but this is Lemons! Shit breaks. Just sayin...
Chump has a 2 hour stint limit, FWIW.
could there be some sort of displacement/fuel rule?
I'm thinking a (Displacement x Fuel Capacity) limit would be more appropriate. 
Chump has a 2 hour stint limit, FWIW.
how do they enforce that? I bet they don't
EvergreenDan wrote:Chump has a 2 hour stint limit, FWIW.
how do they enforce that? I bet they don't
Barcode scans on your helmet in/off the track. Sure you could throw a different helmet on the driver and send him back out but why...
2 stints / driver with 4 drivers. lets do some basic math here.
24/(2*4)=...let me bust out the ti-83.....omg its 3!!
3 stints / driver with 4 drivers. lets do some basic math here.
24/(3*4)=...let me bust out my ass.....omg its 2!!
It's also much more likely that everyone will get to drive with shorter stints.
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