Re: New fuel capacity rule question/clarification:

I understand where you're coming from, Mike. But just bear in mind that a Lemons race is anything but that predictable. Between the breakdowns (which are almost inevitable, even on a spec'd out Brat smile ) and the trips to the penalty box (which can even be 100% the fault of the other driver, but that still means a trip to see the judges), it's just about impossible for the race to work out as planned. Lemons is like what they say about war, no plan survives first contact with the enemy. So don't expend too much angst on this arbitrary unfairness, it is but the first of many indignities to come. That's what we love about Lemons. Cheers.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: New fuel capacity rule question/clarification:

Does Chump really use bar code readers?  I know the one they use at Auto-x, NEVER works.  Pretty high-tech for a $500 car race.

28 (edited by RobL 2009-12-16 09:20 AM)

Re: New fuel capacity rule question/clarification:

bob-e wrote:

Does Chump really use bar code readers?  I know the one they use at Auto-x, NEVER works.  Pretty high-tech for a $500 car race.

Maybe the barcode reader in your region doesn't work - but our region bought one (and SCCA Nationals use two) and they're bulletproof.  I don't know firsthand that they use barcodes, but that's what they have in thier rules.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: New fuel capacity rule question/clarification:

Can we get back to the original question?


Is it acceptable to displace fuel volume in a large tank to get it down to 24 gallons, or do I need to go find a new fuel cell?

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

30 (edited by Evil Genius 2009-12-16 08:27 PM)

Re: New fuel capacity rule question/clarification:

mikespeed95 wrote:

whew, that was tough.  apparently 22-27 is -5.  now geeeeeeeeeez , i wonder how this will affect all the foxbodies/v8 cars.

this is all about being fun, try not to be such a dick on the forum and tell people how they are cheating because of your ignorant assumptions as to their car build.  its not very fun reading a post where someone is being a complete dick now is it?  its just not needed here.

it was a legitimate question, and i was just curious.  i think if you have a true sub $500 lemos car that has the mechanical ability to run 3 hours straight you should be allowed to have the fuel to do so.

Whoa!!   You need not get so upset... Around here we call everybody else's engine a cheater..   Like, "hey Trekkor, how's that cheater engine in the Escort running?"  And Trekkor will hand me another beer and say, "Good, man, good" 

  Think of it as a badge of honor that you are assumed to be running a cheater motor, It means you're trying!!

   I just think that someone getting to use as larger tank  because they have a thirsty motor and want to run long stints is sorta like asking to for an advantage because you have a fast car...      So, I should petition Jay for an exception so we can run a 30 gallon cell in the V8olvo?   It's thirsty and fast, and has won a race and done quite well in others.   It has a stock tank that holds about  15 gallons...  yep, fuel every 1.5ish hours.     

  Every car out there theoretically 'has the mechanical ability to run 3 hours straight'  what makes yours special?   

  The limit is 24 gallons, set your stints at 1.5 hours and the math still works, all the drivers get to drive and it all works out, especially if the car breaks, all your drivers have a much better chance of getting a turn...     

       Sorry to have upset you, just wanted to point out the fairness of the rule, it applies to you, the Fox body guys, me and everybody else... easy.

Gosh, my business card says 'Tech Tyrant'

Re: New fuel capacity rule question/clarification:

we're jsut really tryin to honestly do this for under $500 and be creative/ghetto with it.  we're trying to convince a lot of other people to hop in on Lemons, and be creative with it, and that you can indeed think outside the box, for less than $500 without doing anything spectacular fabrication wise.  we would've probably build something similar to the metro-gnome, but obviously thats been done, and i hate rotaries, so its a good fit.

sorry, we're just trying to be honest while telling others to jump in on building stuff, so it'd be a real dis-service to all of them to cheat while telling them they can do it for a genuine 500+safety.

Mike Peters
Former rotary brat pioneer.
3.17.08 Jalopnik Hoon of the day.  #hasbeen
1984 Dodge Rampage, A few SHO engines, a Mustang 8.8, and a lot of hot glue going on now.

Re: New fuel capacity rule question/clarification:

Bump.  Nobody in a position of authority has chimed in yet.


RichVS wrote:

Can we get back to the original question?


Is it acceptable to displace fuel volume in a large tank to get it down to 24 gallons, or do I need to go find a new fuel cell?

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Re: New fuel capacity rule question/clarification:

The stock tank on a 67 Plymouth Fury is 25 gallons so if we still had the stock tank we would not qualify under the rules.

We usually got about 2.5-3 hours on our 30 gallon cell but it varied depending on track.  We will probably end up doing 1.5 hour stints now and we have tried in the past to do 2.

Carb size change doesn't seem to matter on a small block mopar.  For whatever reason they seem to be almost as thirsty as a big block.

To be completely honest having a big cell in our car made it go faster.  By the time we were running out of fuel the back end gets very loose on since all that weight is off the rear end.

Team Oly Express
Current car - 1964.5 Plymouth Barracuda, Former car - Size Does Matter 1967 Plymouth Fury
07 IOE Winner Thunderhill, 12 IOE Winner Sears Pointless
https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Team- … 4609354407

Re: New fuel capacity rule question/clarification:

*facepalm*  Well, at least it wasnt' a rickroll.

Lets make this the official thread for talking about mpg, your car, your shaggy dog, snipe hunts,  putting magnets on your fuel lines, barcodes, and anything else that isn't the question I was so foolish to ask.

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Re: New fuel capacity rule question/clarification:

I went on a snipe hunt once when I was 10.  tongue

BRE Datsun (Broke Racing Effluence) formerly Dawn of the Zed Racing
'74 260Z
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/editpicture.php … 2559430584

Re: New fuel capacity rule question/clarification:

Troy wrote:

Mike,


The Snoopy van was probably 30+ gallons.

.

Actually we have a stock 20 gal tank, we had considered a 40 gal tank but this would have involved way too much modification and excessive weight.

It Ain't My Fault

Re: New fuel capacity rule question/clarification:

Thread officially jacked.

If it ain't broken, fix it 'til it is.

Re: New fuel capacity rule question/clarification:

We ran a 22 Gallon Cell on our car trying to only have to stop every 4 hours.  At the last race in Houston we only had to take on 5 gallons in the last hour.  We are going to run a larger motor at the next race but we should only need two fuel stops all day if we start with a full tank.  Our idea in the begining was to keep it simple fewer stops means more laps,  I am glad we only have an aircooled 4 cylinder.

Organizer's Choice Houston Yee-Haw Its Lemons 08', DNF Houston Yee-Haw Its Lemons 09'
Ugly Class 3 Winner Houston Gator-o-Rama  10', Ugly Class 3 Winner BFE Colorado 10', Ugly Class 3 Winner Texas World Speedway 12, We got Screwed Winner ECR 14', Barely Finished MSR 14' took a few years off but trying like hell for IOE in 2017!

Re: New fuel capacity rule question/clarification:

Oh I forgot to add I would be very careful with anything having do do with a fuel cell.  We did not get an FIA compliant fuel cell and it created an issue for us.  Honestly the cost of modifiying an FIA compliant cell and the tech inspetors tenacity on this item I would skip it and get the right gear the first time.  In the long run it would have saved us some $$ and a stop sign we got from somewhere!

Organizer's Choice Houston Yee-Haw Its Lemons 08', DNF Houston Yee-Haw Its Lemons 09'
Ugly Class 3 Winner Houston Gator-o-Rama  10', Ugly Class 3 Winner BFE Colorado 10', Ugly Class 3 Winner Texas World Speedway 12, We got Screwed Winner ECR 14', Barely Finished MSR 14' took a few years off but trying like hell for IOE in 2017!

Re: New fuel capacity rule question/clarification:

Hi!

I'm a fuel cell.  I'm in a bulkhead, separated from the driver. I was legal last year, but I'm larger than 24 gallons.  That makes me an outcast, just like I was at the 8th grade dance.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/RS/SR/Product/45820810_L.jpg

I've got these friends who looks like this:

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/Images/L/2539.JPG

and if I swallow enough of my friends, then I'll be a  24 gallon cell.  Will that make me cool enough to play with the other kids?

Please someone, answer my question.  Then we can resume talking about gas mileage, snipe, møøse bites (they kan be pretty nasti) and all the other things that are on our mynds.

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Re: New fuel capacity rule question/clarification:

Might be best to email Nick or Jay directly to ensure you get a valid answer to your question.

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

Re: New fuel capacity rule question/clarification:

RichVS wrote:

Hi!

I'm a fuel cell.  I'm in a bulkhead, separated from the driver. I was legal last year, but I'm larger than 24 gallons.  That makes me an outcast, just like I was at the 8th grade dance.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/RS/SR/Pro … 0810_L.jpg

I've got these friends who looks like this:

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/Images/L/2539.JPG

and if I swallow enough of my friends, then I'll be a  24 gallon cell.  Will that make me cool enough to play with the other kids?

Please someone, answer my question.  Then we can resume talking about gas mileage, snipe, møøse bites (they kan be pretty nasti) and all the other things that are on our mynds.

We're aware of the capacity-reducing blocks, and we wouldn't be opposed to allowing them--we just haven't been able to come up with a satisfactory way of verifying that 24+ gallon cells have the blocks installed. If you guys can come up with a reliable and reasonably simple (ie, not draining and filling everyone's fuel tank) way of verifying the capacity, we're all ears....

Re: New fuel capacity rule question/clarification:

RichVS wrote:

Hi!

Please someone, answer my question.  Then we can resume talking about gas mileage, snipe, møøse bites (they kan be pretty nasti) and all the other things that are on our mynds.

Møøse trained by:            TUTTE HERMSGERVORDENBROTBORDA

"Real ZomBees prefer Bacon"
IOE(x2) MGB/SAAB 96, Judge's Choice, Class C Win, & 2011 Hooniverse Car of the Year!
MRolla, Stick Figure/Animal House, Free Range MR2, SAAB Sonett, "The Death Flip"
2008 Exoskeleton Jag Fiasco, Concours d Lemons - Rue Britannia, worse British car.

Re: New fuel capacity rule question/clarification:

Nick_LeMonsHQ wrote:

We're aware of the capacity-reducing blocks, and we wouldn't be opposed to allowing them--we just haven't been able to come up with a satisfactory way of verifying that 24+ gallon cells have the blocks installed. If you guys can come up with a reliable and reasonably simple (ie, not draining and filling everyone's fuel tank) way of verifying the capacity, we're all ears....

How about having the teams that are needing to use them install them right there in tech? Having not ever installed a fuel cell, I don't know if that would be too hard/messy to do on the spot like that. You might need a different lane or special time just for those (few?) teams that have this issue. But it would be the team's responsibility to have already drained the cell before going to tech, show up and show tech that they are being installed, get tech to sign off before the cell is sealed up, and then put in enough gas to show that the cell doesn't leak and passes the kill-switch-kills-all test. How's that for a start of an idea?

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: New fuel capacity rule question/clarification:

Mulry wrote:
Nick_LeMonsHQ wrote:

We're aware of the capacity-reducing blocks, and we wouldn't be opposed to allowing them--we just haven't been able to come up with a satisfactory way of verifying that 24+ gallon cells have the blocks installed. If you guys can come up with a reliable and reasonably simple (ie, not draining and filling everyone's fuel tank) way of verifying the capacity, we're all ears....

How about having the teams that are needing to use them install them right there in tech? Having not ever installed a fuel cell, I don't know if that would be too hard/messy to do on the spot like that. You might need a different lane or special time just for those (few?) teams that have this issue. But it would be the team's responsibility to have already drained the cell before going to tech, show up and show tech that they are being installed, get tech to sign off before the cell is sealed up, and then put in enough gas to show that the cell doesn't leak and passes the kill-switch-kills-all test. How's that for a start of an idea?

What about the next race they run?  Do they have to remove the blocks and drop them in again?

BRE Datsun (Broke Racing Effluence) formerly Dawn of the Zed Racing
'74 260Z
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/editpicture.php … 2559430584

46 (edited by Mulry 2010-01-07 02:36 PM)

Re: New fuel capacity rule question/clarification:

I'd say probably so. Unless you came up with some sort of tamper-proof seal to put over the removable part of the top of the fuel cell. Lemons Tech could put a tamper-proof seal on the part and then the next time they wouldn't have to re-install in front of tech if the seal were still intact, but if it were compromised, they'd have to re-install. Don't know if tamper-proof seals like that are available or not, although with spec-engine series out there, I'd have to think that they are.

The burden is always on the team to prove that they're in compliance with the rules. The only other choice is to just get a smaller fuel cell, right?

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: New fuel capacity rule question/clarification:

Why couldn't you just show up to tech with the blocks already installed and just have the tank completely empty. Then dump the fuel in right there in tech. Seems easy enough to me. Just have the tech guy look in the tank first to verify there is no fuel in the bottom of it before you start dumping it in. Im just curious how many teams will still have those blocks in there at the end of the race??? Maybe and answer to that would be to keep track off all the cars with the blocks in there and randomly drain 1 or 2 of the cars and then fill them back up just to make sure everything is like it was in tech. This would keep people on their toes and might discourage them from thinking about taking them out. Hell you could even do this as a penalty if one of the cars that has the big tank in it gets black flagged.

E=MC Hammered
E30, 302I (ME car)
Pintoghini with turbo 2.3L
Old Spice Crown Victoria

Re: New fuel capacity rule question/clarification:

I think that sounds pretty reasonable, too. Except that some tracks may not allow fueling in the tech area.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

49 (edited by Jeff G 78 2010-01-07 02:42 PM)

Re: New fuel capacity rule question/clarification:

Is it really THAT big of an advantage for the middle of the pack teams?  If a car is running up front and nobody sees them fuel for hours, the angry mob will take care of the problem via the People's Curse.  If the cheating team is seen carrying 30 gallons of fuel to the fuelling area, people WILL notice.

I don't see this being any different than running cheater engine parts.  You might get away with it, but then again, you might get crushed.  Is it worth the risk?

BRE Datsun (Broke Racing Effluence) formerly Dawn of the Zed Racing
'74 260Z
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/editpicture.php … 2559430584

Re: New fuel capacity rule question/clarification:

I suspect it's more of a liability/insurance issue.

Also, with the no-vote-equals-vote-for-nobody-gets-crushed rule, I think the days of Angry Mob Justice are mostly in our rear view mirror.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.