1 (edited by majo 2014-07-01 09:25 PM)

Topic: Chrysler slant-six - is it as reliable as they say?

Hi guys.  We're always on the lookout for our next Lemons car, and I'm going to look at an early 80's Mopar product with a 225 slant six in a few days ( if it's not sold by then! ).  I've only owned one Chrysler product ( a 95 Caravan ), and I'm not that well versed in all things Mopar.  I know it's common knowledge that these engines are virtually indestructible, but how are they under Lemons duty?  I think the car also has the TorqueFlite tranny, which I hear is a pretty sturdy unit as well.

Are there any cheaty engine performance parts for these engines?  We'd run it bone stock for the first race, and then see where we are.

What do y'all think?  This car isn't the elusive Dodge Mirada that Judge Phil is looking to see race in Lemons, but it's pretty close!

COM ( Chief Operating Moron ) of Burnt Rubber Soul Racing
Current fleet: 95 Ford Probe, 81 Mazda 626.  Past: 81 Imperial
Facebook page:  https://www.facebook.com/burntrubbersoulracing

Re: Chrysler slant-six - is it as reliable as they say?

Yeah, there are speed parts available, and other motor parts are pretty cheap for old American iron. I'm sure with a little work you can have a Slant six putting out 150-200hp. No idea what the Baracuda with the Olympia Beer theme has done to theirs, but it was faster than our Ford 200 six. I believe the Dudes Ex Machina have a slant six Plymouth, and its been fairly reliable after some initial teething issues

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

Re: Chrysler slant-six - is it as reliable as they say?

Don't forget the E30 with /6 power.  It's pretty dang fast, though they've put some work into that engine, I believe.  Still a /6 is one of those things the Judges tend to smile down upon and look the other way if it happens to have a Super Six intake or split exhaust manifolds...

Tunachuckers: 13 Years of Sucking at Sucking
2008- 2010:  1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
2010-conversion into Plymford:  1975 Ford LTD Landau...doesn't have a name?
2018:  1950 "Plymford".  Organizer's Choice - CMP Fall 2018 Hurricane Florence reschedule

Re: Chrysler slant-six - is it as reliable as they say?

Change the pulleys around or move the alternator so you don't end up with a 22ft long fan belt.  They are prone to starving for oil in the turns.  You may consider modifying the pan.  There are lots of options for go fast stuff.

This space for rent.

Re: Chrysler slant-six - is it as reliable as they say?

NSF wrote:

Change the pulleys around or move the alternator so you don't end up with a 22ft long fan belt.  They are prone to starving for oil in the turns.  You may consider modifying the pan.  There are lots of options for go fast stuff.

This is only an issue if your car can, you know, turn.

Tunachuckers: 13 Years of Sucking at Sucking
2008- 2010:  1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
2010-conversion into Plymford:  1975 Ford LTD Landau...doesn't have a name?
2018:  1950 "Plymford".  Organizer's Choice - CMP Fall 2018 Hurricane Florence reschedule

Re: Chrysler slant-six - is it as reliable as they say?

Your talking about this? This is the 72 Valiant of DEM (see my signature)
http://www.murileemartin.com/UG/LTH13/0021-Thunderhill_24_Hours_of_LeMons_2013-UG.html
http://www.murileemartin.com/UG/LTH13/0016-Thunderhill_24_Hours_of_LeMons_2013-UG.html

And this barracuda is from the Seattle area
http://www.murileemartin.com/UG/LSPS12/ … -0059.html
http://www.murileemartin.com/UG/LSPS12/ … -0057.html

There have been 4 slant Six cars that have/are running in Lemons as far as I know (Judge Phil will chime in here maybe?).
A 225 into a BMW,
Spacefranks 1964(?) Dart down in texas(?),
the Baracuda (ran Searspointless and the Ridge in 2012),
and our 72 Valiant which has been running 4-5 races since 2012.

They are not quite bullet proof.
They are nose heavy and low Hp. the crankshaft alone weighs like 70-90 lbs. I think the whole engine is over 700lbs of cast iron.
Judge Phil (and maybe Jay) like underdog cars. You will get good residuals, so you can residual your way to a pretty good car. look at those used carbs on our car. they were 100% of a big residual.
you have to be diligent and patient shopper over the whole USA for GFP.

There are some parts that you can get from other cars to make the chassis handle, good brakes, and there are some options for making some Hp, maybe has high as 240 Hp (really cheating a lot). Our 72 handles with some of the best cars on the west coast, and we have awesome brakes (under budget for the 1st race)
Send me an e-mail direct (right click my name), and we can talk off line. Also go to the Slant Six.org, or forAbodiesonly forum.

The major problems are oil pump drive gear oiling, and radiator.
Oil Pump drive gear oiling I think I solved with a .8mm drill bit. You drill through the block from the oil pump output side, pointing at the oil pump drive gear adn camshaft junction. this costs you about 5-10psi of oil pressure, but saves you from a chewed up oil pump drive gear, which leads to low oil pressure and then to failed rod or main bearings.
Get a Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 Radiator and its a super easy bolt in. Take the upper radiator hose from the jeep too.

Dudes Ex Machina: https://www.facebook.com/dudesexmachina

?Everyone who has ever built anywhere a 'new heaven' first found the power thereto in his own hell- Frederick Nietzsche

Re: Chrysler slant-six - is it as reliable as they say?

700lbs!!! Fuck! We just picked up a new Ford 200 motor from a junk yard. The truck drove over the scale empty on the way in, and with the full dressed motor (air cleaner to oil pan, no AC, no PS, no Alternator, but all the brackets and the exhaust manifold) on the way out. A Ford 200 six weighs just 440lbs. If we were just running the six to be different we would have given up and put a 302 in it years ago, but the 302 is at least 100lbs more of nose heavyness.

Of course I have my heart set on building a straight 8 powered car for the future, and those do weight like 800lbs

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

Re: Chrysler slant-six - is it as reliable as they say?

They're not that heavy, most sources show 475lbs, but that's without starter and possibly carb.  A tall deck big block 440 with iron heads and manifolds is less than 650lbs.  I don't think even a 426 hemi goes 700, and those heads are a ridiculous amount of cast iron. 

The slant 6's are heavier than they need to be since they were designed for aluminum construction then switched to cast iron.  There are a few of the aluminum motors floating around still, and they're about 50lbs lighter than the iron ones.  S/F.....Ken M

Re: Chrysler slant-six - is it as reliable as they say?

They just seem incredible heavy. And are incredible heavy vs the output. If you put one on an engine stand, BE CAREFUL!!, that tall off deck and long block with tip over many engine stands.

Just went to For A bodies Only form and found this.

Engine Weight's
Slant Six 475

273-340 "A" V8 525

360 "A" 550

361-383-400 V8 620

413-426W-440 V8 670

Street Hemi 765

Dudes Ex Machina: https://www.facebook.com/dudesexmachina

?Everyone who has ever built anywhere a 'new heaven' first found the power thereto in his own hell- Frederick Nietzsche

Re: Chrysler slant-six - is it as reliable as they say?

Just for reference purposes, the earlier Chevy Stovebolt sixes actually weigh more than the small block V8 motors. I think it changed when they revised the design some time in the mid sixties, but back in the day the front springs for the stovebolt cars were stiffer than the small block cars.

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

Re: Chrysler slant-six - is it as reliable as they say?

All this slant six love and no Jag talk, 22 degrees and 531 lbs of British Steel (aluminum actually).

'18 PNW-Organizer's Choice '17 PNW-IOE '15 PNW-Judge's Choice '14 PNW-Heroic Fix
Jagvair 2.0 Build   Jagvair YouTube  Jagvair Facebook

Re: Chrysler slant-six - is it as reliable as they say?

The Slant Six is more reliable than the Lemons average, but (like Toyota and Honda engines) nowhere near as reliable as it is in street use. It is, however, the most reliable Chrysler engine in Lemons (that we've seen so far).

Re: Chrysler slant-six - is it as reliable as they say?

Judge Phil wrote:

The Slant Six is more reliable than the Lemons average, but (like Toyota and Honda engines) nowhere near as reliable as it is in street use. It is, however, the most reliable Chrysler engine in Lemons (that we've seen so far).

We've only really killed one engine in 6 races, and that was when we failed the oil pump driver gear. The current engine has seen 2 races and runs great. The block was acid cleaned (filled with pool acid for a couple days).  The biggest problem, which re-surfaced at Thunderhill 2 weeks ago, was over heating. We now have a nice big jeep V8 radiator, but when the outside temps get above about 90, we just can't keep the engine cool when pushing hard in racing. The head stayed cool 170-180, but the block was continually creeping up (210-215-220) and the car won't run at those temps. I think we might try adding a oil cooler to cool the block more

We have a roughly 12" sq Jeep oil/trans cooler on as a transmission cooler, and so long as we have enough fluid, that keeps the 904 trans at 170 or below, even in the hot temps of California summer. We had a transmission leak this last race and the temps kept climbing when we dropped a quart or 2.

Dudes Ex Machina: https://www.facebook.com/dudesexmachina

?Everyone who has ever built anywhere a 'new heaven' first found the power thereto in his own hell- Frederick Nietzsche

Re: Chrysler slant-six - is it as reliable as they say?

mackwagon wrote:
Judge Phil wrote:

The Slant Six is more reliable than the Lemons average, but (like Toyota and Honda engines) nowhere near as reliable as it is in street use. It is, however, the most reliable Chrysler engine in Lemons (that we've seen so far).

We've only really killed one engine in 6 races, and that was when we failed the oil pump driver gear. The current engine has seen 2 races and runs great. The block was acid cleaned (filled with pool acid for a couple days).  The biggest problem, which re-surfaced at Thunderhill 2 weeks ago, was over heating. We now have a nice big jeep V8 radiator, but when the outside temps get above about 90, we just can't keep the engine cool when pushing hard in racing. The head stayed cool 170-180, but the block was continually creeping up (210-215-220) and the car won't run at those temps. I think we might try adding a oil cooler to cool the block more

We have a roughly 12" sq Jeep oil/trans cooler on as a transmission cooler, and so long as we have enough fluid, that keeps the 904 trans at 170 or below, even in the hot temps of California summer. We had a transmission leak this last race and the temps kept climbing when we dropped a quart or 2.

Are you sure its jetted rich enough at WOT? A slightly more advanced ignition may make it run cooler too.

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

Re: Chrysler slant-six - is it as reliable as they say?

Parkwod60 wrote:

Of course I have my heart set on building a straight 8 powered car for the future, and those do weight like 800lbs

You asked   http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/4683630767.html

Duck Die nasty Button turibble 13  60 somthinish  Snowballs Chance in Hell 85 MR2
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Sears pointless 2011 47th 2012 118th

Re: Chrysler slant-six - is it as reliable as they say?

It took us five/six races of massive idiocy to cook ours. Rings went bad, doesn't hold compression no more. However, it continued to race at Sebring, even though over half of the cylinders lost over half of their compression.

We have a 1964 Slant Six. Stock oil pan, just overfilled a quart for each race. If you get one, baffle the oil pan - you won't regret it. Or, you'll be getting new rings like us. Certain years have a forged crank; which is nice.

Things the really anger us on our six:

- Distributor location.
- Getting the intake and exhaust manifold back on.
- Transmission cooler line routing. 
- Some intake and exhaust manifold design bits.

Take advantage of your torque curve. This thing, with the right gearing, will punch out of the corners. If you know how to drive and you have a car that handles, this thing will help you keep up for sure. 

Finally, they are so lovely and simple to work on. Only so much can be wrong for it to not go - which is nice.

Captain of Virtuous Authority and Tool Underdevelopment: Escape Velocity Racing
- Ten+ Time Loser
- IOE, Heroic Fix, Class C and Class of 1964
- Heroic Beer Drinker

Re: Chrysler slant-six - is it as reliable as they say?

For cooling, we have been lucky. We got some radiator from some Toyota truck. Had to do a touch of cutting to get it to fit. We run at thermostat temperatures to about 210 on the track when hot. It doesn't mind the temperature. We also run a touch rich (about 11:1-13:1) at all times.

Captain of Virtuous Authority and Tool Underdevelopment: Escape Velocity Racing
- Ten+ Time Loser
- IOE, Heroic Fix, Class C and Class of 1964
- Heroic Beer Drinker

Re: Chrysler slant-six - is it as reliable as they say?

Parkwod60 wrote:

Are you sure its jetted rich enough at WOT? A slightly more advanced ignition may make it run cooler too.

Jetting is problematic, Big cam so its hard to get a idle AFR that makes sense. Running WOT (on the street) we have about 12, 10 at initial opening. So plenty rich. I've tried to get the AFR down a bit to get more power and better fuel economy, but can't seem to lower it.
Timing , yes.

Dudes Ex Machina: https://www.facebook.com/dudesexmachina

?Everyone who has ever built anywhere a 'new heaven' first found the power thereto in his own hell- Frederick Nietzsche

Re: Chrysler slant-six - is it as reliable as they say?

bossnova wrote:
Parkwod60 wrote:

Of course I have my heart set on building a straight 8 powered car for the future, and those do weight like 800lbs

You asked   http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/4683630767.html

Oh my, you are an evil one!

'13  Sonoma - Class B Crown Vic, 14 Sonoma IOE - Race Rambler!, Autobahn Class C+IOE #Racevan!, '15 Thill IOE Winner - Omega!, '16 Ridge - IOE - Avanti!, '17 THill Class C Winner - Omega, Butt IOE - Race 411, Sonoma IOE - Aztek '18 Butt - IOE - Allante, MSR - IOE - '41 Olds - '19 Butt-Class C - Allante, '20 Covid, '21 THill-Class B - Omega, Sonoma - IOE and HWG  - Satellite, '22 Sonoma - HWG-Tojan

Re: Chrysler slant-six - is it as reliable as they say?

If I ever build an old-timey street rod, it will have a Buick straight-eight.

Re: Chrysler slant-six - is it as reliable as they say?

There's a 1954 Pontiac Chieftan Super Eight in Dallas that's a good price....so much want....so much want.

Captain of Virtuous Authority and Tool Underdevelopment: Escape Velocity Racing
- Ten+ Time Loser
- IOE, Heroic Fix, Class C and Class of 1964
- Heroic Beer Drinker

Re: Chrysler slant-six - is it as reliable as they say?

mackwagon wrote:
Parkwod60 wrote:

Are you sure its jetted rich enough at WOT? A slightly more advanced ignition may make it run cooler too.

Jetting is problematic, Big cam so its hard to get a idle AFR that makes sense. Running WOT (on the street) we have about 12, 10 at initial opening. So plenty rich. I've tried to get the AFR down a bit to get more power and better fuel economy, but can't seem to lower it.
Timing , yes.

Aren't you using complicated, ferrin, progressive 2bbls? with like 100 adjustments on them? Way too complicated for me, but I bet they are going lean somewhere in the midrange. Do they have a vacuum activated enrichment circuit that you can put a lighter spring in?

We were running a 274 degree cam in our Ford 200, up from the 264 we broke at Sears Point. It really didn't seem all that much faster, though both were way better than the old factory 256 smog cam.

Lastly, just this race at Thunderhill we ran a bone stock (well, with a header) 200 motor with 50k miles on it. With the T5 behind it, instead of the C4 we ran there last time, it actually felt nearly as fast even though it was down 50ish horsepower, and we had a self imposed 4000rpm rev limit. So a 5 speed manual transmission makes a huge difference compared to a 3 speed auto. How hard is it to get a 5 speed behind a slant six? Could you get a 6 speed manual out of a Dakota?

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

Re: Chrysler slant-six - is it as reliable as they say?

The slant six shares a bell housing with precisely nothing else, so transmission choices are problematic. If you're comfortable fabricating a bell housing and flex plate, you could probably put whatever you want behind that thing.

Like both Bobs have mentioned in this thread, oil starvation in turns is a big issue. Probably the only real problem that kills street reliability when you put this engine on the track. We studiously ignored this issue for 5 races and ended up with leakdown numbers that were well below 50%. No one seems to make an aftermarket oil pan baffle for this thing, so pull out the sheet metal and get creative.

Go-fast parts are actually surprisingly available as long as you don't mind getting cheaty with the budget. We haven't really cracked that egg yet, but visit slantsix.org and see what some of these lunatics are capable of.

Command Pilot/Flight Director, Escape Velocity Racing
Index of Effluency, Heroic Fix, Class C Trophy, now hopelessly gunning for Class B.
Currently 1-2 vs. Team Fairlylame in the Class of 1964 Championships

Re: Chrysler slant-six - is it as reliable as they say?

SpaceFrank wrote:

No one seems to make an aftermarket oil pan baffle for this thing, so pull out the sheet metal and get creative.

Wait, there are companies that make aftermarket baffled oil pans?  How come they do not make they for the super awesome, track-ready, Saturn 1.9L DOHC?

Re: Chrysler slant-six - is it as reliable as they say?

No problems with oiling, we have a 3 quart Acusump plumbed into the oil pressure switch port. 8 quarts in the pan. we only had low oil pressure when we failed an oil pump gear, a known failure point of the slant six in racing (mostly drag racing).

We also drilled (Frank did I tell you about this!!) a 0.8mm hole in from the oil pump out put area of the block IN toward the oil pump/distributor gear area. this cost us a few PSI, but seems to have overcome the cam gear chewing up the Aluminum oil pump gear. Drill slowly with a sharp bit and you'll get through. Cast iron is easy to drill if you go slow.

There is a 4 speed manual that is available but finding the transmissions, bell housing, and pedal set up is very difficult, then its costly. really costly. No way we can residual up to that.

Parkwod60, we have two Weber DCNVA dual 36mm down draft carbs. Very simple carbs, an idle and a main jet and an Idle mixture adjustment. Overall they are great,. Its a set up from http://www.piercemanifolds.com/  in Gilroy, CA. the home for all Weber parts you'll ever need.

Dudes Ex Machina: https://www.facebook.com/dudesexmachina

?Everyone who has ever built anywhere a 'new heaven' first found the power thereto in his own hell- Frederick Nietzsche