My first Lemons build - What am I screwing up? (Page 1 of 5)

Put a new timing belt on for sure and change all the fluids (tranny etc,)

Get rid of anything you don't need, anything

Welcome to Uncle Jay's traveling theme park and petting zoo.

I didn't see a seat...may I suggest a comfortable seat.  Try to avoid drag seats...they're made to be comfortable for about 20 seconds...or for about 1/4 mile.  You'll be in that seat for at least an hour or about 180 times longer than a drag race.  If you can't find a used one, a new one will cost at least $300 (Corbeau).

Also, you'll need race quality brake pads(we use Carbotech XP24), fluid (again, we use Motul RBF600) and fresh flex lines (we use braided stainless).  We carry a spare set of front rotors.  There are other race quality brake parts out there as well.

You will need at least 6 mounted tires. 

Some form of communicating to the driver is also helpful.  If you have been reading this forum, then you should be up to speed on that.

Good luck!  Oh...keep in mind the most constant message from Doctordel's favorite book..The I Ching...and that is...perseverance furthers.

Thanks for the comments. 

We do have a seat - at least one of the team members has a used seat they're willing to give to the cause.  I'll make sure it fits the rules first, and if it's legal and comfortable enough we'll go with it. 

Tires - we're going with 15" ones on new rims for now, and will probably have a few 13" ones for backup.  If we can afford more 15" wheels and tires, we will, or we'll use 15" on the front and 13" on the rear in case of emergency (I hope it doesn't come to this).  Any wheels for this car are either brand new (expensive) or 30+ years old and 14" max.  The 4x98 bolt pattern is a pretty odd one except with Italian cars it seems. 

Brake pads were going to be EBC greenstuff - they're available for the new Fiat 500, and the kit I was looking at uses all factory Fiat 500 components (hopefully that means parts stores might have pads and rotors in stock!) and braided stainless lines.  Hopefully they'll be good for the track and the budget.  I know brakes are exempt, but we still need to pay for them. 

We haven't had the chance to figure out communication - we might just stick a cell phone in the car and have the call going all the time to use as communication with a board as a backup. 

Greg, I know you said you changed the belt, but we're going to change it before the first race.  Replacement belts are cheap enough and cheap insurance. 

I'm working on a garage addition now, so I hope to make more progress once that's complete.  I'll be able to do work at night in good light and any weather!  It should be done just in time for spring and nice weather again.

I'm sure you have seen this advice already but there is an order of priority that you should properly work towards.

1. Make the car pass tech.
There is not much that can't be fixed at the track but having the cage and seat right before you get there will save a lot of stress.

2. Make sure it will be reliable.
Basics like fluid changes, hoses and belts, fuel system (old fuel tanks tend to be full of rust that will be released when you fill it all the way up for the first time in 10 years), electrics etc

If all this is good you will run long enough to have problems with things like brakes and tires. Bring a spare set of pads and inspect every few hours until you find how fast they are wearing, this can be very driver dependent but you don't want to get to the metal on metal stage where you have possibly screwed the calipers as well as the rotors.

For spares you have found rock auto, buy everything that's cheap for your car especially things like ball joints, tie rod ends, wheel and axle bearings etc. If you have time replace and keep the old as spares or just bring the new parts, it's much better to grab a $9 rockauto tie rod end from your spares than be off track and chasing down a part that local parts stores likely will not have.

Good luck!

Cool, another Fiat 124!

Mine isn't for Lemons, and it's a Spider, but allow me to pass along wisdom gained from my father in law, who is building an even crazier Fiat than you or I... (His is a Locost 7 stuffed with all the driveline of a '76 Spider)

4x98 wheels are cheap and available near you, I bet. The steel wheels from a new 500 fit fine. They are 15" and usually $100 a set if that on CL.

Running 1 weber or 2? I see yours has 2000 badges, does it have a late EFI 2000 motor to match?

Thanks for the replies!  I'll up the budget a bit for the on track costs, but each driver is responsible for their own stuff (Driver fee, license, suit, helmet) because some people had a helmet and suit, some hand only a helmet, some had nothing - so that's why it was a bit low.  And I'm not sharing underwear.  Hopefully we come in enough under budget for everything else that the driver entry fees will be covered. 

We may be able to borrow a trailer, but in a way, that's towards the bottom of the list for now.  We need the cage first.  Worst case I can rent a trailer from U-haul, or possibly buy a used one out of my own money.  I guess that decision will be made depending on what's available closer to race time. 

I have some portable pop-up tents, chairs and stuff.  I have 4 small kids, so we're probably going to stay in a hotel nearby.  They will have fun at the track, but I don't think they'll handle the camping too well. 

The previous owner (Greg above) cleaned out the tank, lines, and rebuilt the carburetor.  I'm going to add an additional filter before the fuel pump before racing, and have a fuel pump as a spare in case the one that's there goes bad. 

The car has the 1608 motor according to the casting numbers, I guess an owner sometime in the past thought the badges looked nice.  Single Weber 32/36 downdraft carb, but if I find an inexpensive dual carb manifold I'll pick it up for later - maybe the residual will be low enough after the first few races to make that a possibility.  Turbo manifolds are available now too....  The 2000 motor is a little taller than the 1608, so I'm not sure it'll clear the hood, but I'm sure some creative clearancing will allow it to fit.  As part of the "keeping it reliable", I think we're going to stay as stock as possible for the first few races. 

From what I was told the new Fiat 500 wheels are slightly different backspacing, and there may be clearance issues when the wheels are fully turned.  I'll check into the steel wheels, though.  The alloy wheels I was looking at were about $500 per set.  If we can save some cash great!  I still hope we get in under budget, but time will tell.  If I need to spend more, then so be it, hopefully my wife understands! 

I'm not making the May race.  It's Mother's Day Weekend for NJMP, and there's no way I'm getting the permission to both build a race car AND go racing on Mother's Day.  I also don't think the car will be ready in time - no sense rushing it and not being able to enjoy the build.  Maybe next year the race will be the weekend before or after - or I'll tow down to the Carolina race. 

Thank you all for your input so far!  I look forward to posting up pictures of this build and finally getting it to the track.  I'll try to borrow a GoPro for getting some video of the laps.

I live 20 minutes from S&W.

I purchased a pre bent cage from Rollcagecomponents.com.  May cost a few more $, but you've got the expensive part covered, (fabricator).

Jim is awesome and you get more than you'll ever need, which is a really good thing.

As far as carbotech pads.  You can send them backing plates, and they put the pad material onto your old plates.  they did this for our pinto, and it's worked out very well.  talk to Mike Jr.

Forums. Go find the Fiat forum and start looking over what those guys have done to there cars. Find out if there are any easy upgrades, like finding the brakes or struts from a bigger/other car, which can swap in easily. Or spring or sway bar upgrades. Some of those guys have owned cars for 20-30 years and know lots of the tricks. Some upgrades of that leave for after the first race, just get it running and safe for the first race. But maybe you'll happen upon something easy.

I see you've double budgeted for Brakes, you've got $1K in for brake upgrade and 750 for brake repairs. Just get the brakes working and reliable for now. Go through the bearings, seals, calipers, probably new brake lines. Get SS braided lines if you can, or get someone to make them by sending your old lines in and have them make SS braided copies. Front and rear (1 or 2 rubber lines at the rear!)

Battery to the rear of the car, it will make up for removing the interior.

The 32/36 weber should be a great carb for that engine, even with a bigger cam and some engine work, so don't worry too much about that now, just make sure it works correctly.

as mentioned 6 wheels minimum, or 8, 1 set for racing dry, one set for racing wet (rain).

Personally, I'd keep it bone stock and just put decent 2-300TW tires on it.  Upgrades can come later.  You don't know what you don't know and you guys aren't racers (yet).  I agree with the stainless lines just because you are going to replace the ones on there.  Forget Carbotech/Porterfield or any of the high dollar stuff for now.  Next time.  Just put the best pads RockAuto or somebody's severe duty pads and check them after the first day.  You'll probably be able to buy at least 3 sets for what custom Carbotech/Porterfield will cost.  Maybe even find someone on ebay that is selling NOS Ferodo DS pads.  Whatever.  Use good brake fluid (ATE/ZMotul/etc).  Fiats had very good brakes for their time.  They also handled decent.  Make it run and drive reliably first which means being ultra anal about cleaning the (stock) fuel and cooling systems.  Pull the fuel tank and send it to the radiator shop along with your radiator and have both cleaned out.  Replace the fuel hard line.  Clean that carb real good.  Replace the fluids in anything that uses them.  Make it street legal.  Drive the car for a few weeks and then see where you stand.  Replace the (at least front) wheel bearings before you race it.   I wouldn't worry about getting 27 sets of tires.  At minimum, 4 on the car and two spares.  Anything more than that is gravy.  No need to spend money on specialized rain tires and such just yet.  Slow down if it's slippery.  Make sure it's aligned before you race it.  At worst, google home alignment and do it yourself for near zero dollars.  Replace the timing belt.  I don't know what tricks they have come up with since but I can remember from when way back when I did one of these that without the special tool for keeping the cams aligned, it was a bitch to change that belt.  As others have said, join a Fiat forum, post what you are doing and ask questions.  Most will think this is a great idea but you'll find a few that you piss off.  Ignore them and learn from the others.

Spend your money now on safety and reliability.  Starting at say race 3 go for performance.  For one thing, the spending curve for the first race is far and away the most expensive so spend wisely.  You guys are just starting out and you won't be able to get more than 70% out of the most tricked out Fiat on the planet.  99% of your speed increase in the beginning will come from just learning to drive fast, not from a car with fancy bits on it.  You can dream later but it's real easy to spend your money in the wrong places and end up with a car with nice parts on it but the team spends the race weekend working on the ones related to reliability that got ignored.  Or spend the time working out the kinks on those custom parts.  When the time comes, you can search for old PBS Fiat racing parts but not now.  Just guessing that Phil would put this in C, I would think a reliable 124 would do decently in that class.

BTW - Love this car.

The best parts store pads are hit and miss.  You'll waste alot of time replacing pads and rotors (and possibly calipers) if you get it wrong. 

Don't cheap out on the pads.  a set of XP8 for the front are less than 150.00, and you'll get at least 2 races out of them.  We get over a season out of our RP2 pads.  $200 well spent.

YES YES YES YES YES

That is all.

We did our first race with the same DOT 3 fluid the car came with. Don't do it.