The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Pics, Pics, Pics (and Vids) → Hella Shitty 911 and AVI$ Aveo battle for a top 3 at Thunder Hill!
I appreciate your interpretation of the rules. I'm sure our team, and others appreciate it too.
In three years we have had contact that required a PB twice. Thanks for your input on the matter.
Oops, dubble post.
The judges want to see your car before you have attempted to cover up.. Er... repair anything. If you have a fluid leak or other mechanical, they want to see it themselves so they can tell you to fix it and then bring it back so they can see your fix. They don't want something kinda fixed that they never new was broken (because you hid it), and then you go back out on the track and cause mayhem due to your incompetence turning a wrench. To take this a step further, it benefits you to go. Especially if you're inexperienced. As often the judges are very smart and they might give you a hint on what to fix and how to fix it. Finally, what prevents a team from going straight to their pit to avoid a line of BF recipients just for convenience claiming their car needed work and then coming in after their pit to avoid a line?
Obviously we are way off topic, so I will rest my case with that. 
The judges want to see your car before you have attempted to cover up.. Er... repair anything.
Pretty much this. We want to put a good set of eyeballs on the car, slow things down, and make sure both the machine and the meat in the seat are alright, both physically and mentally. If your car goes straight back to the pits on the hook, we're still going to want to talk to the driver to find out what happened and to make sure he/she is fine. We also want to talk about the incident and, ultimately, the end result is that we want the driver(s) to walk away from incidents with some kind of lesson learned. The most common takeaway from any contact is "Expect the stupid to happen and never assume someone understands your intentions on the track." It's not Skip Barber School or anything, but in a roundabout way, the Penalty Box is still supposed to help you become a better driver.
As for phantom black flags, I can assure you with 100 percent certainty no one is throwing "competition black flags" or playing favorites or any BS like that. The calls come from the corner workers, who could know or care less who's leading anything. They relay the call to Race Control (who also typically don't give a rat's ass who's leading) to have the car(s) black flagged. The only times the Penalty Box has anyone black flagged is if:
(A) you've sped in the pits or otherwise done something stupid in the paddock.
(B) your team wants you in the pits and It Is Impossible for them to get ahold of you with radio, pit board, smoke signals, et. al. This happens more often than you think.
(C) you owe us for a previous black flag and we see you re-enter the track without coming to the Penalty Box.
What you've maybe misheard from Phil or Steve or myself is this: "I'm going to put you in Class B with 0 laps, but if you get black flags, we're going to make them hurt." That is not the same thing as "I'm going to have you black flagged if you're winning." Sorry to step on the tinfoil hats, but that just isn't a thing that will happen because neither Phil, Steve, myself, or any of the other judges really care that much who wins the classes outside of dreading the inevitable "Y U PUT [TOTALLY TERRIBLE CAR] in [MY CLASS]!!!11!"
neither Phil, Steve, myself, or any of the other judges really care that much who wins the classes outside of dreading the inevitable "Y U PUT [TOTALLY TERRIBLE CAR] in [MY CLASS]!!!11!"
I'm totally guilty of this.
Sorry.
Great video with the 911! Each of you were faster in different sections, so it made it entertaining. It looks like you were pushing pretty hard to keep him behind...more understeer than in the Buttonwillow video.
Not to be critical or discourage you from posting the videos, but there are two criticisms I would have from the videos that were not really covered in the other comments...
1. In the Thunderhill battle against the 911, at 8:15 where the 911 is on the outside entering turn 14, you defended a bit too aggressively. Aside from your squeezing the 911 to the outside of the track before corner entry, the 911 was fully alongside at corner entry (actually, even a bit more than that) so was entitled to racing room on the outside line. You were unfortunate in that there was another car on the inside line, but I think you should have stayed behind that car rather than move to the outside line. Philip in the 911 was being very careful and recognized that you were pushing wide, but if he had stayed alongside, not only did you move into the space that you should have been giving him as racing room, but you went in to the corner so hot that you nearly went off the outside of the track and would have forced Philip off track had he not dropped back. Anyway, mistakes happen and it appears that you were cooking the front tires pretty heavily trying to keep the 911 behind you, which may have resulted in more understeer than you expected there, but I wouldn't want someone to see that and think it is good racing etiquette. In endurance racing, where you have another car that is evenly matched or just slightly faster, it is often better not to fight too hard for the position but rather to tuck in behind and let the other driver do the hard work (and take the risks) of opening a line through traffic.
2. In the Sears contact with Donuts, recognizing that there is a certain reputation associated with that car, I do think you were at fault in that contact. You cannot expect Donuts to leave you room at the apex unless you are fully alongside (door-to-door) at corner entry. You were fully behind Donuts at corner entry and by the apex only got your nose up to (into, actually) Donuts' door. It looks like Donuts may have overflowed at the apex, but you were still too far back and given the massive speed differential between the cars, I don't think the driver ever expected you to try to repass (which is fairly pointless as he was no-doubt running 10+ seconds per lap faster).
Anyway, really enjoyed the videos and hope you continue to post them as they are educational for people to see how a relatively underpowered car can still turn fast laps and be competitive in Lemons. Hoping your next car will be a Class A machine!
Harry
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Cerveza Racing
It is definitely donuts fault.
Should not waved bmw emblem in front of him
And you are lucky you did not get another black flag. Working on the car and fueling in same time.
Again...this is exactly why I am being so transparent with the videos and the opinions. This is a great learning experience for everyone, especially me and my students. I am a driving instructor and have shared this thread (and others) with those that could benefit. I don't mind getting laughed at when I blow my top in the pits, but behind the wheel, I stay pretty calm and collected.
Yep, all of us came to race, and we complete in Spec Miata and Porsche Club Racing routinely...so our fun is not usually on the slow side. That said, I was pushing pretty hard IN A TIRED CHEVY AVEO with the 911 behind me, so there were some not-so-pretty moments. Philip, when he has time, will be posting his video of the fun as well. I really want to see what it looked like from his point of view. We laughed and shared the moment later in the evening and we both agreed, that was some of the best Lemon's Racing either of us had ever done.
One thing we all know is, it's really easy to play couch quarterback and do the woulda-shoulda-coulda thing. Hence the reason why we video the whole race from beginning to end. Even pipe in the radio audio so whatever drama might be going on, can be realized in the video and taken in context. That said, we will tweak the drivers a little, maybe exercise a little more discretion, build another car, and come and play once again!
Thank you, gentlemen (and an occasional lady), for good times and great memories. See you at Sears!
Another view of the war, just in!
Another view of the war, just in!
Obviously no insurance companies from this country are involved with this activity.
Renegade wrote:Another view of the war, just in!
Obviously no insurance companies from this country are involved with this activity.
Well, I am sure my wife has got a ton of insurance out on me and she's probably counting on cashing in after watching this video! LOL!
Great video! Very well driven for someone I assume does not live in Germany!
Harry
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Cerveza Racing
The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Pics, Pics, Pics (and Vids) → Hella Shitty 911 and AVI$ Aveo battle for a top 3 at Thunder Hill!