Cage tubing question (Page 1 of 3)

Dude, I'm not a tech inspector, I don't play one on TV and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so take this with the appropriate grain of salt. If this were my ride, I'd never incorporate black pipe into the cage design, mainly because I think it would stand a good chance of getting the car DQ'd in tech. Bear this in mind:

"3.1.1: Rollbar Tubing and Padding:  No muffler tubing, no water pipe, no electrical conduit, etc."

I suspect that black pipe fits into that broad "etc." category. YMMV. Cheers.

Black pipe has a higher iron content than DOM or mild steel, which makes it less strong and more brittle.  It is NOT recommended for any structural use.  You're nutz for even thinking of this...

ASTM A53, BS 1387, DIN2440, BS EN39, ASTM,BS1387,JIS,DIN,EN39

One thing to think about is that Lemons HQ is getting more serious about our safety.
I can imagine that one of the next steps will be the requirement for DOM for all Roll cages. I for one would go for the extra cost of DOM just to keep my head inside my helmet instead of all over the track. It's not worth the headache of not passing tech for bad welds, improper mounting or wrong pipe/tubing to begin with. IMO

Oh well I never would use it for the primary cage itself, this was more related to a "rear cage structure" We were not planning on really calling this part of things a safety thing, its really more of a keep the rear of the car attached thing.
Our existing cage was perfectly legal last year.I gueess after reading my email we will be having to buy some more DOM tubing for another door bar.  Perhaps we will just find some extra money for the tubes required for the rear cage thingy we wanna do. Just hope as a result that is "safety" budget not part of our $200 to play with (we have 300 as our residual from last year)

I know it's probably not a fully satisfactory answer, but at least you can get grandfathered in:

"3.1.5: Waivers: Previously entered Lemons cars that don't meet the above specs must upgrade their equipment or apply for an individual grandfather waiver before showing up for the race. Be warned: Waivers aren't automatically granted."

But I'm betting that the guys who have rides being built and maintained in professional shops are less likely than home garage teams, and I'd bet that grandfathering doesn't last long either. I guess it's the early adopter/bleeding edge penalty again. Sorry guys.

Hmm now that I read the rules more carefully, I think we may be okay. Here's what our current cage looks like:

All of the joints are welded together. The only bolt together connections are on the straight parts of the tube (you can see the "collars" with bolts on the top windshield bar and the door bar).

I know I have to add an extra door bar. I'm not sure if it should be higher or lower than the current bar. Any higher will seriously impede our ability to get in/out of the car.

I'll wait for clarification before jumping to any conclusions.

I am not as concerned about the door bars or the dash bar as I am of the Full Front Hoop
"cage must include: Full front and rear hoop, appropriately braced to each other along the roofline; two drivers-side door bars (X-design is acceptable); appropriate main-hoop backstays with no bends, located as close to 45 degrees from horizontal as practical; one main-hoop diagonal; appropriate spreader plates and gussets; complete 360-degree welds at all joints. Each hoop and bar must be formed from its own single, continuous tube."

As I understand this I would say at least half of the cages won't meet this specification. In our car we run the standard rear hoop with a roof hoop that is connected by two pillar bars that run down along the window pillar to the floor.
Others run two pillar bars that run along the roof line back to the the rear hoop, with a bar connecting both sides along the front window.
I hope for clarification on this one, from Lemons HQ

I know it's a little confusing, but the way I understand the rule, the front hoop is one continuous bend. Jeeps, and convertibles  are pretty much the only ones I have seen a full front hoop. Example: http://www.offroaders.com/jeepfan/rollbar.htm
Maybe I think too much, My head is hurting!

I think that Paul's really stumbled onto something here. Looking at the Autopower cage above, it doesn't have a continuous 1-piece front hoop. Few cars do. But I don't think that the intent of this change was to force everyone to rebuild their cages. It's just going to need a little more re-work. I'm confident that Jay is now aware of the problem and will address it.

A BMW driver coming to a reasonable conclusion? What will happen next, cats living with dogs? Cheers.

Wow.  If that is so, a LOT of us are screwed that are building new cars for upcoming events.  I'm sure finding a reasonably priced caged of that design is more than likely non-existent.