Selling Seats, How to handle damage contigencies, fine print etc

I've posted seats that have a "damage deposit" on them.  For eaxample, $500 seat and then a refundable no-fault $500 damage deposit that will be used to repair the car back to "pre-race on starting grid" race-able condition.  The no-fault means that if anything happens to the car no matter who or what causes the damage, everyone loses all or part of thier damage deposit.

Good input guys, thanks

To our "Lady of Perpetual Downforce" (luv that name), say b4 the race you sell the car to the team for $1,000 and it's damaged up.  You then would buy it back from the team for less, say $500, correct?  That's what you mean it's "like a deposit," correct?

Schumacher Taxi (you were a tough one behind our Punisher Cop car at Carolina awhile back, nice driving) ...  you're saying everyone chips in $500 and if the car requires money to fix, everyone reaches into that fund equally and the amount the get back from their $500 deposit is reduced accordingly, regardless of who was at  fault, correct?

That was me.  After tailing you guys for a while, I smelled your brakes change "pitch."  I thought it best if I back off a little and sure enough, you didn't have brakes in the next turn.  That poor civic... 

That's exactly how it should work.  There is a ~$2000 damage fund that gets used to bring the car back to racing condition.  That way, should teamates not be able to race at the next event there will still be a car for them.  It requires a little trust and mutual respect among the team that the drivers before you aren't going to go out and wad the car.  But you have to do that anyway and this way everyone on the team has a vested interest in not pulling bonehead moves that will cost them money.

"Damage Fund" ... good way to sum it up.  I like the "dynamic" of that where everyone shares equally in any misfortune.  Speaking of "dynamic" yep, that was me in front of you at Carolina.  I felt bad about hip checking that Civic with a car that was prolly 3X the weight, and very relieved he recovered and continued on.  The pad backing plate was welded to the piston in the rear ... we increased the brake bias back there to help take the load off the fronts.  Well, we lost brakes as you saw but also, super heated the gas tank too, but we'll save that part of the story for a beer I'll by you for out driving me!

i must admit this all makes me ill.  i don't buy into the whole 'whore out a seat" for my team program.  but then again i'm (we) not going for the season championship.

as with most successful series the money rises to the top.  the element of for-profit racing has and will always ruin the spirit of any series.  Lemons is doomed to repeat the errors of every racing series that has come before its existence.

the King is dead, long live the King.  !!!!!!

Rob, I like your plan.  I imagine a lot of guys would complain about an extra $500 but I think you are realistic.

$500 car or not, repairs can add up quick.

A friend of mine and I do most the maintenance, cause replacing engines/transmissions is maintenance, on the car so it keeps the cost down.

While this keeps cost down, it still takes a LOT of time.

Aside from that, giving guys a vested interest is a good idea.

Don't know if you saw it yet but we were running video...  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MkXRSu6X2I

+1  Rob
Down here in Florida there are alot of Autocrossers and different club racers that want to participate in crap can racing.  Since my 'team' basically consists of my father and myself, in order to play by the rules we are required to fill the two other seats.  The money we collect goes towards maintaining and updating the crap can, tires, trailer maintenance, fuel, spares, beer, storage, etc...  and not for profit.

Wow. 

Not (really, really!) trying to be nasty.  But, some of the above plans sound really complicated to me, and I think it all comes down to initial perceptions and expectations.

We made the following assumptions when we formed our team:

1)  Racing is a stupid thing to do, and you'll never make money at it.
2)  If a member quits the team, he is giving up any right to any refund/share of ownership.  If we only do one race and decide never to do it again, so be it.
3)  If the car gets totaled/cursed, tough luck for us.
4)  If the first driver, on the first lap, in the first turn, destroys the car, tough luck.  That's racing.
5) Every member brings what he can to the team.  Whoever owns the trailer, for example, is donating its use.  There's no money/compensation involved.  If a member doesn't own much and we invited them to be part of the team, we knew their ability to contribute going in.  If they have something valuable and refuse to let the team borrow it, then that guy is a dick and we wouldn't have him in the first place.

Long ago, I used to be on the road crewing formula Mazdas.  I've seen cars hauled 2000 miles to a race and then fail to qualify.  Does this mean that somehow someone is entitled to damages, because things didn't go well that weekend?  In my opinion, no.  Them's the breaks, and if you can't deal with it you shouldn't be racing.

Finally, look at rules 1.3 and 1.6.. these pretty much sum up our whole attitude.  This is supposed to be fun, not a business.  Every time I've turned a hobby into a business it has ended badly for me.

Just my $.02

--Bob