Topic: 200 treadwear BS

The latest 200 treadwear tires (e.g. RE-71R) are basically 100 treadwear in performance and longevity. I don't know why 200 treadwear is the limit, but given that today's 200 is yesterdays 100, maybe it's time to up the treadwear rating. It would make racing cheaper and probably safer.

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Re: 200 treadwear BS

Changing the rating would suck. Say they bumped it to 250, now we can't use legit tires like the Star Specs that last a long time and perform well while not breaking the bank.


The influx of tires is a product of popularity. Between the numerous cheap racing organizations, SCCA putting a larger emphasis on "street tires", and other factors, it's a pull for tire makers to jump on board.

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Re: 200 treadwear BS

Higher TW rating does not always equate to longer life on the track.  How many stories have been posted about teams running 400 TW tires, and the tread coming off after just a few hours of abuse?

Until TW ratings become standardized, all we can do is try to find the best tire for each teams needs that meets the rules.  If all the racing series in America went to a minimum of 250 TW, then all these tires that are now 190-200 would magically become 250.

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Re: 200 treadwear BS

The current TW is what the limit is on Street tires.  Anything below that is considered street/track or just track.

The problem is they TW is totally meaningless and manufacturers can put whatever they want.

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Re: 200 treadwear BS

I think they got it right.  I know people who've run higher TW rated tires. and they fall apart after a half day on the track.  All the 200 rated tires we've run have given great performance, take an incredible amount of abuse, and last us 5-6 full race days.  To me, that's pretty impressive.

bs

Re: 200 treadwear BS

any time you measure in loosely-defined, self-reported arbitrary units (UTQG) this kind of disparity inevitably creeps in. (anyone remember the Japanese 300hp pact of the 90s?). I think it is kind of funny because even though these 200tw tires are all "the same" by the number, some are obviously better suited for endurance racing than others...

My proposal:
Class A: Minimum 420 UTQG
Class B: Minimum 200
Class C: Slicks

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Re: 200 treadwear BS

A durometer test would be one way to keep the tires in some specific range. Alternatively, a list of approved tires regardless of treadwear rating.

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Re: 200 treadwear BS

drKorf wrote:

A durometer test would be one way to keep the tires in some specific range. Alternatively, a list of approved tires regardless of treadwear rating.

I'd be resistant to anything that makes the rulebook longer. I have a suspicion HQ feels the same.

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Re: 200 treadwear BS

Also a good tire for say a Honda Civic, may be a chunky greazy heap of exposed cords on say a malaise era LTD in under an hour.

The 200 minimum works well since people just buy what works for them and their budget.

A "softer" re-rated tire isn't necessarily a good thing in an endurance race where alignment tolerances are measured by thumb withs.

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Re: 200 treadwear BS

I think the root problem is that as more groups/autocrosses moved towards a minimum 180/190/200 TW rule, the tiremakers who were making 140 TW waved a wand and said "voila!, our model XYZ has been redesigned and is now 200 TW!".  The problem for us is to figure out which of these redesigned tires is still an autocross tire and which is an endurance tire.

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Re: 200 treadwear BS

http://autoweek.com/sites/default/files/styles/gen-738-415/public/Spec%20Land%20Yacht%20Tire.jpg?itok=-pwUgAds

If I had my way, everyone would be running nothing but Douglas Xtra Tracs.

12 (edited by mechimike 2016-01-28 06:06 AM)

Re: 200 treadwear BS

Guildenstern wrote:

Also a good tire for say a Honda Civic, may be a chunky greazy heap of exposed cords on say a malaise era LTD in under an hour.

I represent that remark. 

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Re: 200 treadwear BS

You can't make a blanket statement for the whole series. A tire that works well on one car wont' work well on the next, just like brake pads. It's up to you to find the tire that works the best on your car. A huge land yaught is going to need a harder tire than a small light car.

Durometer tests are insane, and not accurate either. Take the same tire, take a reading brand new, after a 20 minute lapping session, and after 10 heat cycles, you're going to get 3 different readings. The series has it right. 190TW min, do your own homework from there.

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Re: 200 treadwear BS

We have learned that simple, easy-to-explain-and-enforce rules work best. Which is why I am lobbying for Douglas Xtra Tracs to be the only tire allowed in Lemons (so far, Jay is ignoring my lobbying).

Re: 200 treadwear BS

200 TW is good, my son is running the same  Falken AZENIS RT615K's that we run on the track on his DD and now has 25k miles on them. They still have lots of tread and he feels he can get a lot more use out of them.

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Re: 200 treadwear BS

Judge Phil wrote:

http://autoweek.com/sites/default/files/styles/gen-738-415/public/Spec%20Land%20Yacht%20Tire.jpg?itok=-pwUgAds

If I had my way, everyone would be running nothing but Douglas Xtra Tracs.

How about a class c loophole for anyone running the whole race on Douglas Xtra Tracs?

Chris from 3 Pedal Mafia

Re: 200 treadwear BS

derekste wrote:

any time you measure in loosely-defined, self-reported arbitrary units (UTQG) this kind of disparity inevitably creeps in. (anyone remember the Japanese 300hp pact of the 90s?). I think it is kind of funny because even though these 200tw tires are all "the same" by the number, some are obviously better suited for endurance racing than others...

My proposal:
Class A: Minimum 420 UTQG
Class B: Minimum 200
Class C: Slicks

Good idea!  When do we buy our tires, after BS inspection?  wink

bs

Re: 200 treadwear BS

Sonic wrote:
Judge Phil wrote:

http://autoweek.com/sites/default/files/styles/gen-738-415/public/Spec%20Land%20Yacht%20Tire.jpg?itok=-pwUgAds

If I had my way, everyone would be running nothing but Douglas Xtra Tracs.

How about a class c loophole for anyone running the whole race on Douglas Xtra Tracs?

Surely that would be D-class (D for Douglas). I would try it.

Race: 2012 Vodden; 2013 Pointless, EMP, Vodden, Freeze; 2014 Vodden, Freeze; 2015 Vodden, Loudon, Freeze; 2016 Pointless, Discomfort, Vodden, Sweat; 2017 Turrible
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Re: 200 treadwear BS

If you run D-Class, your car must also have hubcaps.  And, if you loose more than 3 of them, you must pit and replace them.

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'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

Re: 200 treadwear BS

if your car did not come with hubcaps, would it be possible to use plastic hubcaps off the internet?
guess also no cheating, no zipting hubcaps to the wheels, no additional fasteners that is the original attachment.
Tire specked class would be very nice. besides class A,B,C, F.
problems I see is, I cant find the tire size I can use with Douglas Xtra Tracs
I need like miata/mini cooper tire size.

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Re: 200 treadwear BS

mechimike wrote:

If you run D-Class, your car must also have hubcaps.  And, if you loose more than 3 of them, you must pit and replace them.

Hubcaps FTW!

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Re: 200 treadwear BS

kakarot1232001 wrote:

if your car did not come with hubcaps, would it be possible to use plastic hubcaps off the internet?
guess also no cheating, no zipting hubcaps to the wheels, no additional fasteners that is the original attachment.
Tire specked class would be very nice. besides class A,B,C, F.
problems I see is, I cant find the tire size I can use with Douglas Xtra Tracs
I need like miata/mini cooper tire size.

They come in 185/65/14. That will fit a Miata perfectly. $43.50 per tire!

Race: 2012 Vodden; 2013 Pointless, EMP, Vodden, Freeze; 2014 Vodden, Freeze; 2015 Vodden, Loudon, Freeze; 2016 Pointless, Discomfort, Vodden, Sweat; 2017 Turrible
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23 (edited by fleming95 2016-01-28 02:04 PM)

Re: 200 treadwear BS

I see you your Douglas Xtra Tracs and raise you this -

I was out walking the dog one day and noticed a modern Nissan where the front and back tires weren't matched. . . and then noticed the rears were from. . . .

http://21st-century-tires.com/triangle/images/about_tri.jpg

and am still laughing about it.

Imagine keeping a straight face at the tire store when you get asked, "What kinda tires you want?"

and you get to answer, "hey, put those Triangles on all four corners!"

24

Re: 200 treadwear BS

I think we really need something with a bit more class. A tire with a nice classy white stripe on it like the Optimo 724

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25 (edited by billybobster 2016-01-28 02:38 PM)

Re: 200 treadwear BS

If you deploy spinner hubcaps, -10 penalty laps. I know this looks like a spinner wheel, but it says it's a wheel cover.

http://www.capads.com/Image/Spinner/Spinner2404.gif

As it says on the site where I found this - ALL THING IS STOPPED, IT'S STILL MOVING. Ideal for Lemons cars where often, all thing is stopped.

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