• From: Detroit Metroland
  • Registered: 2015-08-27
  • Posts: 90

Topic: Halo to main hoop junction

Our car, like many, is somewhat tight on interior space. We mounted our seat to the floor, so we're golden in the vertical direction, but we're always going to be somewhat tight in the lateral direction (ie between helmet and top of the door/window).

We would like to run the halo tightly along the a-pillar/roof edge while staying as close to the roof as possible. This means that the halo won't intersect the main hoop without an additional bend at the end of the halo.

Two questions:
1 - is it ok to have some small bends at the end of he halo to facilitate it being closer to the roof?
2 - can we remove the factory roof rail to get the tube out closer to the edge of the car? We are running a 1.75" x 0.125" tube in a car with a factory curb weight around 2600 lbs if that matters

Here's a picture of what I'm talking about:

http://epsilongraphics.com/img/prelude/MainHoop1.jpg

Here's a picture from another 3rd gen prelude team's build. Note the small bend at the end of the halo and the material removed from the factory structure.

http://epsilongraphics.com/img/prelude/MainHoop2.jpg

  • From: South of Chicago
  • Registered: 2011-11-26
  • Posts: 750

Re: Halo to main hoop junction

IS that main hoop yours? The hoop could have been bent differently so as to be closer to the roof line and the halo bar would have lined up better. You could just shift the whole main hoop over to the let side to get it closer if you don't want to make up a new one.
I would think that putting a slight bend in the halo tube end should be no issue.  But I'll let the Lemons tech gurus comment on this if I'm wrong.

  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 9,416

Re: Halo to main hoop junction

This is a question for Chief Tech Overlord John Pagel. Email him with some photos and he'll help you out.

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  • From: Detroit Metroland
  • Registered: 2015-08-27
  • Posts: 90

Re: Halo to main hoop junction

jimbbski wrote:

IS that main hoop yours? The hoop could have been bent differently so as to be closer to the roof line and the halo bar would have lined up better. You could just shift the whole main hoop over to the let side to get it closer if you don't want to make up a new one.
I would think that putting a slight bend in the halo tube end should be no issue.  But I'll let the Lemons tech gurus comment on this if I'm wrong.

The first picture is ours. The hoop in the picture is touching a brace in the center of the roof, so it can't be any taller. We have a second hoop that's about 2" wider in the center section (ie it hugs that factory roof shape better - about 1" closer on either side), but it will need plinths (not a huge deal).

Both hoops will still have the same issue though - the halo/main hoop junction will need a bend in order to keep the halo as wide and close to the roof as possible.

Judge Phil wrote:

This is a question for Chief Tech Overlord John Pagel. Email him with some photos and he'll help you out.

Thanks for the address, I'll be sure to reach out.

  • -SDR-
  • Ripened Lemon
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  • From: CT
  • Registered: 2015-10-06
  • Posts: 282

Re: Halo to main hoop junction

I just sent John similar questions and photos of our cage.  Our halo is bent down and the roof is gutted like the second photo, and he did not say anything negative about it. 

Other people have posted about running the halo over the main hoop radius to a plates (two each side) and that's been approved as well.  We almost did ours this way, but decided to go the way we did.

Still worth asking him.....



Bill

2020 I.O.E. CT #36 The Rootes Of All Evil,1958 Sunbeam Rapier Convertible (YES 1958!!) & 2019 Judges Choice NJMP
2016 Thompson Speedway #36 Sabrina Duncan's Revenge, IOE Trophy, 5th Place 'C' Class 1977 Ford Pinto
2009 Stafford Motor Speedway #16 Team Teflon, 11th Place (overall) 1997 Saturn SL2
  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 9,416

Re: Halo to main hoop junction

Always ask us before you spend money or cut metal. We are happy to help you get it right the first time.

Murilee Martin aka Judge Phil on Facebook
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  • From: Buxton NC or Truckee CA
  • Registered: 2013-03-25
  • Posts: 836

Re: Halo to main hoop junction

-SDR- wrote:

Other people have posted about running the halo over the main hoop radius to a plates (two each side) and that's been approved as well.

When I first saw that our cage builder has done this I was freaked out that he'd installed the cage illegally. I sent emails and they said it was fine. I've not seen many others done this way but it gives ample headroom.

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  • From: South Jersey
  • Registered: 2013-12-01
  • Posts: 588

Re: Halo to main hoop junction

My halo, 00 Firebird, is bent in a similar manner as to what you are planning.  We have only run that car in one race in NJ and the tech inspectors had no issue with it.  That being said it is not the same inspectors at every race every year, so they may all want something different.  It is always good to talk to John, and even bring a copy of the emails to inspection just in case.  I'll try to post some pictures this weekend showing ours.

Team Glue Sticks
00 Firebird, 02 X-Type, 93 NX2000, 00 Mazda 626 (Sold)
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  • -SDR-
  • Ripened Lemon
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  • From: CT
  • Registered: 2015-10-06
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Re: Halo to main hoop junction

FPRbuzz wrote:
-SDR- wrote:

Other people have posted about running the halo over the main hoop radius to a plates (two each side) and that's been approved as well.

When I first saw that our cage builder has done this I was freaked out that he'd installed the cage illegally. I sent emails and they said it was fine. I've not seen many others done this way but it gives ample headroom.

Our car is an old mini-stock that had the cage that way when we got the car. We searched the site, and found it was legal and considered putting the new cage that way.   We did a bunch of measuring and figured we could get even more room with the halo bar bent down and in. We were correct.  Please note that this might not be true for every car.

The reason for me emailing John is that our roof-line is such that the sides of the halo ended up being slightly higher than the main hoop.  Our question was about where to measure to the helmet.  Before John even had the chance to reply we were able to remount the seat to make that question a non-issue.

We would have kept the 'old' cage, minus all the extra bars that did nothing for strength, but all the bends in it were crap; nice welds though.



I agree with everyone else: Tack it together and send photos!!


Bill

2020 I.O.E. CT #36 The Rootes Of All Evil,1958 Sunbeam Rapier Convertible (YES 1958!!) & 2019 Judges Choice NJMP
2016 Thompson Speedway #36 Sabrina Duncan's Revenge, IOE Trophy, 5th Place 'C' Class 1977 Ford Pinto
2009 Stafford Motor Speedway #16 Team Teflon, 11th Place (overall) 1997 Saturn SL2
  • From: SF, CA
  • Registered: 2015-02-11
  • Posts: 592

Re: Halo to main hoop junction

FPRbuzz wrote:
-SDR- wrote:

Other people have posted about running the halo over the main hoop radius to a plates (two each side) and that's been approved as well.

When I first saw that our cage builder has done this I was freaked out that he'd installed the cage illegally. I sent emails and they said it was fine. I've not seen many others done this way but it gives ample headroom.

What is left of my brain is not able to visualize this. Could someone post a picture?

25X Loser - Delinquent Racing - '86 Rust-Tite Merkur - 9 years (when do I get to stop?).
  • From: South Jersey
  • Registered: 2013-12-01
  • Posts: 588

Re: Halo to main hoop junction

Here are some pictures of mine where the halo meets the hoop.  Not a huge bend but it adds a couple inches.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/137819823 … ed-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/137819823 … ed-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/137819823 … ed-public/

Team Glue Sticks
00 Firebird, 02 X-Type, 93 NX2000, 00 Mazda 626 (Sold)
2016 NJMP Heroic Fix, 2017 NJMP Near Heroic Fix except we can't drive, 2017 Thompson I Got Screwed, 2019 Pitt Heroic Fix

12 Reply by -SDR- (edited by -SDR- 2016-02-05 10:02 PM)

  • -SDR-
  • Ripened Lemon
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  • From: CT
  • Registered: 2015-10-06
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Re: Halo to main hoop junction

billybobster wrote:
FPRbuzz wrote:
-SDR- wrote:

Other people have posted about running the halo over the main hoop radius to a plates (two each side) and that's been approved as well.

When I first saw that our cage builder has done this I was freaked out that he'd installed the cage illegally. I sent emails and they said it was fine. I've not seen many others done this way but it gives ample headroom.

What is left of my brain is not able to visualize this. Could someone post a picture?

I planned on it, and I found them before, but for some reason I could not find any when I went to post here.


http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=rol … ajaxhist=0

Hard to see, but its the best I could find for now.



Bill

2020 I.O.E. CT #36 The Rootes Of All Evil,1958 Sunbeam Rapier Convertible (YES 1958!!) & 2019 Judges Choice NJMP
2016 Thompson Speedway #36 Sabrina Duncan's Revenge, IOE Trophy, 5th Place 'C' Class 1977 Ford Pinto
2009 Stafford Motor Speedway #16 Team Teflon, 11th Place (overall) 1997 Saturn SL2
  • From: SF, CA
  • Registered: 2015-02-11
  • Posts: 592

Re: Halo to main hoop junction

-SDR- wrote:
billybobster wrote:
FPRbuzz wrote:

When I first saw that our cage builder has done this I was freaked out that he'd installed the cage illegally. I sent emails and they said it was fine. I've not seen many others done this way but it gives ample headroom.

What is left of my brain is not able to visualize this. Could someone post a picture?

I planned on it, and I found them before, but for some reason I could not find any when I went to post here.


http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=rol … ajaxhist=0

Hard to see, but its the best I could find for now.

Bill

Picture is fine, thanks, I can now understand what "over... to plates" means. I would have thought that's not legal either, but then I'm 2nd Under Assistant Cage Minion on our team.

25X Loser - Delinquent Racing - '86 Rust-Tite Merkur - 9 years (when do I get to stop?).
  • -SDR-
  • Ripened Lemon
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  • From: CT
  • Registered: 2015-10-06
  • Posts: 282

Re: Halo to main hoop junction

Just note that I have seen that Lemons wants that type of connection done in a very specific way.  Each side with TWO plates, one on the front of the main hoop and one on the rear, with the forward one having a hole in it where the halo bar passes through it, with 360* welds at both.  I have also seen where the front plate is two parts that don't quite make a full circle, but are welded almost all the way around.  I have seen photos of both on this site, but can't find them.



Bill

2020 I.O.E. CT #36 The Rootes Of All Evil,1958 Sunbeam Rapier Convertible (YES 1958!!) & 2019 Judges Choice NJMP
2016 Thompson Speedway #36 Sabrina Duncan's Revenge, IOE Trophy, 5th Place 'C' Class 1977 Ford Pinto
2009 Stafford Motor Speedway #16 Team Teflon, 11th Place (overall) 1997 Saturn SL2
  • From: Detroit Metroland
  • Registered: 2015-08-27
  • Posts: 90

Re: Halo to main hoop junction

meyers0150 wrote:

Here are some pictures of mine where the halo meets the hoop.  Not a huge bend but it adds a couple inches.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/137819823 … ed-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/137819823 … ed-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/137819823 … ed-public/


This is exactly what I'm thinking about doing, but the top of the hoop will be in plane with the tops of the bars that run along the top of the doors. We could either bend the bars that run along the top of the doors to be in plane with the top of the hoop (bigger bend) or bend them 90 degrees out of plane (smaller bend). It seems like quite a few teams have done this.

Here's another pic.

http://epsilongraphics.com/img/prelude/50.jpg


John and I are trading e-mails about this right now, so no official word yet.