Topic: Radiator fans or not?

Is this a dumb question?

Do most teams keep or remove their radiator fans? 

Removing the fans will increase flow across the radiator while the car is in motion, but may result in insufficient cooling while the car is stopped (or moving very slowly).  Which is the more important scenario to base this decision on (moving vs. stopped)? 

I know "real" race cars generally don't have fans, but "real" race cars generally tend to spend a greater percentage of time "at speed" than most Lemons, at least in my observations.

Re: Radiator fans or not?

Keep the fans and install a manual switch so that the driver can turn them on from the cockpit.  You don't want to have a situation where the engine is getting hot and you're under full course yellow behind a slow moving car without sufficient aiflow getting to the radiator.

-Kyle
Eyesore Racing
"That's probably wrong, but it's worth a shot."

Re: Radiator fans or not?

Better still, keep the factory thermostatic control over the fan or if you don't trust that, just hardwire them on.  Drivers forget things.

There will come a time when you find yourself in an extended slow full-course yellow, if not a full-stop red flag.

Lemons South 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Spring 2009 - Fail, Lemons Detroit(ish) 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Fall 2009 - Fail, Lamest Day 2009 - Fail, Miami 2010 (Chump) - 2nd!, Sebring 2010 (Chump) - Fail, Cuba 2010 - Crew Chief, Roebling 2011 (Chump) - 8th!, Sebring 2011(Chump) - 19th!

Re: Radiator fans or not?

sac02 wrote:

I know "real" race cars generally don't have fans, but "real" race cars generally tend to spend a greater percentage of time "at speed" than most Lemons, at least in my observations.

I've seen plenty of real race cars with fans.  Caution laps in 95F degree heat will cause you to need them.

We kept ours and left the primary control up to the ECU.  We also have a manual override switch as Loren suggests just in case the driver "forgets".

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Radiator fans or not?

Fans are heavy. Pull them out.

wink

Just another crappy BMW and moto-powered MR2: http://www.facebook.com/BlackIronRacing
Gnome money, Gnome problems. (RIP) http://www.facebook.com/MetroGnomeRacing

Re: Radiator fans or not?

The E30 strategy: pull the engine driven fan for the hp, leave the electric fan behind as a manual fan for when you're stuck idling somewhere. The AC switch turns it on.

To finish first, first you must finish. -Rick Mears
Pandamonium Racing

Re: Radiator fans or not?

My "Real" race car has no fan.
My Lemons car, like one other good suggestion, has the mechanical fans removed, and the two electric, theromstatically controlled fans retained.... Most of these Lemons need a fan, and there is lots of low speed, low airflow conditions that require it. Many Lemons are also marginal on cooling to begin with, so if that is suspect, get a bigger rad....

"Don't mess with Lexas!" LS400. We survived another one! See website link for build details.
Maker of the "unofficial Lemons fish!" - If you ask nice, I'll likely give you one at the track.

Re: Radiator fans or not?

If you remove the engine driven fan and wire your electric fan backwards you can decrease the aerodynamic drag on your car and go much faster.

El Capitan de los Bastardos De Lemons
1993 Linco Mark Ate
1957 Renault Dauphine
Driver with LemonSpeed's V6 Mustang

Re: Radiator fans or not?

Electric fan wired to a relay/switch or even the ignition is the best option. You for sure need something. We just leave our fan on all the time because you're always slowing down for yellows and it's a pain to remember to turn it on/off.

Shake and Bake
America, birthplace of the missionary position. You're welcome...

Re: Radiator fans or not?

gielamonster wrote:

Fans are heavy. Pull them out.

wink

+1.  also, the radiator can be pretty hefty, so you might as well get rid of it also.  takes a lot of weight off the nose of the car.  and run very thin oil, and as little of it as possible, to pick up a few HP...you don't want the crank having to push through oil for 15-24 hours.  all that drag adds up.

mike - Schumacher Taxi Service
12+-time loser
"Winner" - We Got Screwed, NJMP '11

Re: Radiator fans or not?

Our car turns the fans on to low speed above 200 degrees and turns it off above 25 mph.  Unless the AC is on or it is above 208 then it stays on high speed until 35 mph.

Aren't computers fun...

We hot wired it after it boiled over in the last race, turns out the problem was the P.O. removed the thermostat entirely leaving the bypass open and shortcutting the radiator.

El Capitan de los Bastardos De Lemons
1993 Linco Mark Ate
1957 Renault Dauphine
Driver with LemonSpeed's V6 Mustang

Re: Radiator fans or not?

You don't need a fan or a radiator just lots of ice tongue

Check out our smoke breathing two stroke monster build...I mean imminent failure at http://metroneige.blogspot.com.

Re: Radiator fans or not?

NOS cools the intake charge, and clearly that would cool the engine.  Sell your cooling system and spend the bucks on a bottle.  Cooler and faster.

Kurt Krumm
STS
Current car: who the hell knows
Prior offenses to sound judgment: Toyota coROLLa, Audi 80, Toyota MR2, Ford Crown Vic chop job

Re: Radiator fans or not?

Your car might spend a long time idling in the line to get on the track for transponder testing, so a fan is a good idea. What the hell, we're talking about 4 pounds for an electric fan.

Re: Radiator fans or not?

MurileeMartin wrote:

Your car might spend a long time idling in the line to get on the track for transponder testing, so a fan is a good idea. What the hell, we're talking about 4 pounds for an electric fan.

Its the principle of it!

Actually, it surprises me how many want to change or modify perfectly good systems without appreciating the potential consequences. If folks want to actually finish, they should focus on reliability and weight reduction and not mess with critical systems unless there is some demonstrated need to do so. Our Celica ran hot, but that's only because it was a lemon! Fan's and radiators didn't seem to help... must have been that thin oil... hmmm.

"Don't mess with Lexas!" LS400. We survived another one! See website link for build details.
Maker of the "unofficial Lemons fish!" - If you ask nice, I'll likely give you one at the track.

Re: Radiator fans or not?

scavenge a rad fan from a Lincoln Mark VIII, them things run faster and move more air than just about anything under $150. when the temps are up a good rad fan is worth it's weight in gold on the track.

Re: Radiator fans or not?

laz wrote:

The E30 strategy: pull the engine driven fan for the hp, leave the electric fan behind as a manual fan for when you're stuck idling somewhere. The AC switch turns it on.

This also works very nicely in the 928 Estate....  we only run the little AC secondary fan wired to a temp switch (stock) in the radiator...turns on around 195F....  but on track it doesn't run....  it will kick on once you come in the pits....

most serious race cars only have small fans that are used in the pits or maybe under a slow caution lap....

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2

Re: Radiator fans or not?

Take the fan off! Better yet take the water pump belt off because pushing the coolant through the cooling system causes to much drag on the crankshaft. Then you might as well take out the radiator because that will remove a lot of weight off of the front axle area. Then pull of the carb or fuel injection (whatever you are running) and just stick the fuel line right down the intake and hold it in place with a few zip ties. With this easy intake mod done you have easily removed most of your failure items and who needs a ECU anyways(more un-needed weight) With all this done hit the ignition and watch that motor have the fastest revving most glorious 15 to 20 seconds of it's life.

Just kidding don't do a word i said because we already did and it is fun but things don't end well for your car

Re: Radiator fans or not?

Serj wrote:

scavenge a rad fan from a Lincoln Mark VIII, them things run faster and move more air than just about anything under $150. when the temps are up a good rad fan is worth it's weight in gold on the track.

The fans out of BMW E23s move hurricane quantities of air and are cheap at Pick-N-Pull, but they probably draw 20 amps.

Re: Radiator fans or not?

MurileeMartin wrote:

Your car might spend a long time idling in the line to get on the track for transponder testing, so a fan is a good idea. What the hell, we're talking about 4 pounds for an electric fan.

The first part of your answer is exactly what I asking (why I was asking?), thank you.

As to the second part, how did everyone in this thread come to think I was wanting to take the fans off to save a couple pounds?  Did I ever even remotely alude to that? 

If anyone read the entire post, they will see that I asked because I was wondering if removing the fan would help the engine run cooler, since flow acros the radiator at speed will be better without the fan.  In other words, since I didn't know how long the car may be idling/driving slowly, I was asking about removal of the fans to increase reliabilty by increasing cooling, weight never came into it.

Re: Radiator fans or not?

WTH? Parasitic losses? I'll bet most teams could lose more weight by knocking off the Doritos than they'll save by gutting the cooling fans....what is this fascination for tinkering with good stock systems? I had a friend who raced specials in the road racing scene up here in the 60's....almost never had a DNF....with a SBC powered A-H....he used to use only parts that were supplied through GM's competition catalog. He used to tell me that there were so many things that could go wrong and that for an extra five bucks for that cam, you buy a zillion hours of dyno/development time and the brains of of hundreds of engineers....yet everybody is smarter than the OEM engineering team. I learned this in high school when I regularly got clobbered by a guy with a 283-powered Nova....My 400 SBC should have walked away with cam/headers/intake/Holley, but he balanced/blueprinted the 283, gasket-matched the ports and ran a Q-Jet. I'd buy the next goodie out of Car Craft but never changed the plug wires. He made lots of money and never broke. Why do we always want to reinvent the wheel?

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: Radiator fans or not?

jimeditorial wrote:

WTH? Parasitic losses? I'll bet most teams could lose more weight by knocking off the Doritos than they'll save by gutting the cooling fans....what is this fascination for tinkering with good stock systems? I had a friend who raced specials in the road racing scene up here in the 60's....almost never had a DNF....with a SBC powered A-H....he used to use only parts that were supplied through GM's competition catalog. He used to tell me that there were so many things that could go wrong and that for an extra five bucks for that cam, you buy a zillion hours of dyno/development time and the brains of of hundreds of engineers....yet everybody is smarter than the OEM engineering team. I learned this in high school when I regularly got clobbered by a guy with a 283-powered Nova....My 400 SBC should have walked away with cam/headers/intake/Holley, but he balanced/blueprinted the 283, gasket-matched the ports and ran a Q-Jet. I'd buy the next goodie out of Car Craft but never changed the plug wires. He made lots of money and never broke. Why do we always want to reinvent the wheel?

Reading comprehension much?  Read my post directly above yours...

Nice ramble though.  Hey you kids - off my lawn!

Re: Radiator fans or not?

laz wrote:

The E30 strategy: pull the engine driven fan for the hp, leave the electric fan behind as a manual fan for when you're stuck idling somewhere. The AC switch turns it on.

Our stock electric fan was toast, so I bought a cheapo electric fan from eBay for $20-something. It was much lighter than the stock electric fan. Wired it into the thermostatic switch on the radiator AND added a manual turn on switch. Runs cool as a cucumber and I don't have to worry about the clutch fan smashing into the radiator. Then again, I do have to worry about the fan getting crunched in a front end wreck, but we still have the big diving board bumpers and two "bash bars" behind the grille to protect it.

The Homer: Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.

Re: Radiator fans or not?

sac02 wrote:
jimeditorial wrote:

WTH? Parasitic losses? I'll bet most teams could lose more weight by knocking off the Doritos than they'll save by gutting the cooling fans....what is this fascination for tinkering with good stock systems? I had a friend who raced specials in the road racing scene up here in the 60's....almost never had a DNF....with a SBC powered A-H....he used to use only parts that were supplied through GM's competition catalog. He used to tell me that there were so many things that could go wrong and that for an extra five bucks for that cam, you buy a zillion hours of dyno/development time and the brains of of hundreds of engineers....yet everybody is smarter than the OEM engineering team. I learned this in high school when I regularly got clobbered by a guy with a 283-powered Nova....My 400 SBC should have walked away with cam/headers/intake/Holley, but he balanced/blueprinted the 283, gasket-matched the ports and ran a Q-Jet. I'd buy the next goodie out of Car Craft but never changed the plug wires. He made lots of money and never broke. Why do we always want to reinvent the wheel?

Reading comprehension much?  Read my post directly above yours...

Nice ramble though.  Hey you kids - off my lawn!

Oh! Will it cool better without the fans....I think no.

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: Radiator fans or not?

jimeditorial wrote:

Oh! Will it cool better without the fans....I think no.

Why, thank you for the advice. smile

Thanks everyone, we will keep the fans.

Wait - we have TWO fans! 
Should we remove one for weight savings, LOL?
Or... just like a battery, relocate radiator and fans to the trunk for better weight distribution!