Re: So our engine for this weekend is no good...

Troy wrote:

Good luck, you could revive the Cadi.

That will be for April. You think the Mark VIII is tough to work on, wait until you see the nightmare engine we bought for the Caddy. It will make every other unlikely/difficult swap in the history of Lemons look like a cakewalk, if we can pull it off. I'm pretty sure a Caddy 4-6-8 would be a huge step up compared to this thing.

Captain: Speedycop & The Gang Of Outlaws -'94 Mark VIII (Least Horrible Yank Tank Stafford '09, NOLA '10) '61 Caddy (Org Choice-NL '09) '63 Tbird (EPIC Repair Failure-Gingerman '10, I Got Screwed-Summit Pt '10, I.O.E. WINNER Stafford '10!) '77 Lancia Scorpion (I.O.E. WINNER Joliet 2010!) '67 Galaxie 500 (Judges Choice-CMP '11)
Future Fleet: 1957 Ford Prefect 1942 Buick 1959 Bugeye Project GLCOAT

Re: So our engine for this weekend is no good...

I agree.
It's gonna push my electricical diagnosticizing abilities to untold depths of horror...

Official photographer/Team Police Brutality|Speedycop & the Gang
Lackey-mechanic-whatever/NSF Racing
Sycophant/Judge Phil, Jay Lamm, Kim Harmon
Galaxie Driver/not Parnelli Jones

Re: So our engine for this weekend is no good...

Disney wrote:

Good news is, the BLOCK ALONE from that sells for $400 all day long.

Troof?  I didn't know this. I have three of them now that I don't need. Should I ebay them, or throw them up on Corral, or what? I know they are much lighter, being all aluminum, but I didn't know they brought much more than scrap weight...

Captain: Speedycop & The Gang Of Outlaws -'94 Mark VIII (Least Horrible Yank Tank Stafford '09, NOLA '10) '61 Caddy (Org Choice-NL '09) '63 Tbird (EPIC Repair Failure-Gingerman '10, I Got Screwed-Summit Pt '10, I.O.E. WINNER Stafford '10!) '77 Lancia Scorpion (I.O.E. WINNER Joliet 2010!) '67 Galaxie 500 (Judges Choice-CMP '11)
Future Fleet: 1957 Ford Prefect 1942 Buick 1959 Bugeye Project GLCOAT

Re: So our engine for this weekend is no good...

They sell on the modular forums very easy. The 2V guys buy them up to put good internals in so they can make more than 400hp.

Re: So our engine for this weekend is no good...

I feel your pain. Been in your type of situation many a time.

Thank goodness my latest junk yard motor for our V12 Jaguar is running like butter. I think we stole your luck. But it could be worse... you could be looking for a Jaguar V12... that was NOT easy to find under budget. Seems you can buy the whole damn car cheaper than just the motor most places.

Pendejo Engineering "Captain" - 1991 Alfa 164
1983 Shaguar XJ-S V-12 "The Two Ton Miata"
1995 Mercedes S600 V-12  - First car ever CLAIMED by JAY!
1980 Maserati Quattroporte - Judge's Choice

31

Re: So our engine for this weekend is no good...

I understand how frustrating that must be.  We are cautiously proceeding with the Craptation project.  The first order of business was to see if the donor motor would fire and run and how did it sound.  We didn't relish the idea of putting an unknown motor in for the exact reasons you are pulling your hair out now.  I know I tweaked you about the whining, but I do understand how sickening it must be to do all that work...

Jer / Schumacher Taxi Service
2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)

Re: So our engine for this weekend is no good...

magnusracing wrote:

I feel your pain. Been in your type of situation many a time.

Thank goodness my latest junk yard motor for our V12 Jaguar is running like butter. I think we stole your luck. But it could be worse... you could be looking for a Jaguar V12... that was NOT easy to find under budget. Seems you can buy the whole damn car cheaper than just the motor most places.

x1,000,000

I paid MORE for the replacement motor than I did for the WHOLE car..okay only $44 more...but still more......the only upside of our insanely depreciated Euro whips is the used part values are also very high.....I got $50 for the A pillars.....serious.....just two A pillars, in the finest 25 year old german leather!!! 

I wonder how much this is worth  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL92flNHmNk

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2

33 (edited by MurileeMartin 2010-02-02 06:41 PM)

Re: So our engine for this weekend is no good...

Speedycop wrote:

I don't see how a SHO could be any harder to work on. This motor is so wide, it rubs on both sides as you raise it up in the engine bay.

With a SHO, you will have to replace your engine (and transmission) several times during the race. That's why the SHO guys always show up with several cars, so they'll have parts handy.

Re: So our engine for this weekend is no good...

Broke Neck wrote:

Damn man .... if we knew you were in a jam, we could of defiantly arranged to help yall out. We could of brought the motor half way to yall or something being our team is out of Va Beach.  Being car guys we may of even known the guy you bought it from. 

Next time you need parts or something from down here, let us know man, we are glad to lend a hand to get you guys to the track again.

Yall were one of the few teams that actually stayed up drinking with us.

Im still upset we never got that email about racing on your land like you were hyping up. 

Just a couple days left, we will have a welder with us just incase .... we hope yall get everything worked out to make it down there.

too bad you're so far away because I always defiantly help people! smile

Re: So our engine for this weekend is no good...

icemang17 wrote:
Jeff G 78 wrote:
Disney wrote:

Yes, it is. It's a 32 valve DOHC 4.6L. Same motor they used in the Cobra up through 2004.

If I remember right, the Mark VIII motor had a cast crank and the Cobra motor's crank was forged.

interesting...since all of the 928 cranks are forged and some of the rods-pistons are too...but of course not the early engines like we are running....

Oddly enough a forged crank doesn't help when there is no oil in the bearings..you still end up with this  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm1BlKelA3M

Wasn't that Lincoln rated at 280HP??  My guess is its closer to the Cobra output of 305hp...Pretty serious HP for Lemons....the estate is rated at 234hp...

cobras have different heads (i think)  and for sure different intake and exhaust setups.
hence the added horse power........

Re: So our engine for this weekend is no good...

So......does it run?

-Mike
Junk Works Racing Team Captain
Lemons South Spring '09 SR-71 BlackBird Finisher
Southern Discomfort '10 E-30ata 4th place

Re: So our engine for this weekend is no good...

Speedycop wrote:

Why did we pick the hardest car to work on???

Don't you know it.   Having to drop the front subframe to do anything on  the motor which requires dropping the gas tank, exhaust and everything else connected to it makes an engine swap a 10 hour job.

I've been fighting random electrical gremlins on my mark VIII for 2 days now.   It spits and backfires and pretends to be starting but alas, not yet.

Why why why...


Oh, I remembered...

It's a blast to drive and surprisingly fast.  smile

El Capitan de los Bastardos De Lemons
1993 Linco Mark Ate
1957 Renault Dauphine
Driver with LemonSpeed's V6 Mustang

Re: So our engine for this weekend is no good...

Well, I'm one tired puppy. We just came up from the garage, and big Joe has to drive 10 minutes home and then be up for work in like an hour. The replacement engine is in, although the accessories are not. There's also a number of issues to fix, including swapping the throttle body with the broken-off intake bolt in (or drilling it out, something I hate doing on a throttle body while on the car), and replacing the oil filter adapter gasket, which dumped about 4 of our 6 quarts of Mobil 1 on the floor while cranking. I dunno if it has an oil pressure switch that keeps it from running with low pressure, but it didn't start. Also sounded like a few of the original 1994 plug wires were *gasp* arcing out. There's still a week's worth of work to do in two days. I need a Red Bull I.V.

Captain: Speedycop & The Gang Of Outlaws -'94 Mark VIII (Least Horrible Yank Tank Stafford '09, NOLA '10) '61 Caddy (Org Choice-NL '09) '63 Tbird (EPIC Repair Failure-Gingerman '10, I Got Screwed-Summit Pt '10, I.O.E. WINNER Stafford '10!) '77 Lancia Scorpion (I.O.E. WINNER Joliet 2010!) '67 Galaxie 500 (Judges Choice-CMP '11)
Future Fleet: 1957 Ford Prefect 1942 Buick 1959 Bugeye Project GLCOAT

Re: So our engine for this weekend is no good...

Sounds like you guys need to rest for a day. You've got plenty of time!

Re: So our engine for this weekend is no good...

Good luck!  Wish I was closer, would be over spinning wrenches, or at least bringing beer.  You'll make it.

Bloomington, IN
We'll bring Beer!  Motorsports
Team Fiery Death! #0 2009 Lamest Day(65th), 2010 American Irony(24th), 2010 Detroit Bull(4th),2012 Capitol Offense (8th) 2012 American Irony (11 th), 2013 Capitol Offense (3rd) 2013 Chubba Chedder (4th, Judge Choice!) Now sadly part of a scrap pile. 
Toothless Racing Deadbeats #110 2011 Summit Point (61st) Currently being rebuilt into the new car!

41 (edited by bob-e 2010-02-03 06:02 AM)

Re: So our engine for this weekend is no good...

meh nevermind

Re: So our engine for this weekend is no good...

bob-e wrote:
Speedycop wrote:

We bought a $200 u-pull-it motor to stay under budget.

Did I mention that our $150 T45 also turned out to be no good, and the cheapest replacement ($200)

IF we make it to the track with a running Mark VIII, I would advise against calling us cheaters to my face.

OK then, let me take care of this before we get to the track then.  :) Did one of the fastest (definitely highest hp/weight ratio by a longshot) really get a residual value of $150 or less?  I personally was thinking a residual value of $750 would be more fair.  Didn't it have new bilsteins?  I'll admit I was calling you guys cheaters when I saw the car last at CMP, but after seeing all your Craigslist finds, I tend to believe it is possibly legit now.   Good luck, you cheaty mccheaterstons ;))

No really, good luck.  I truely hope you get it going and make it to the race.  I know how hard you guys have worked.  We all have.

I never tried to hide anything about this car. The thing about running the same car over and over is that you can improve on it each time under budget, as long as its not a frontrunner at the end. Because we fully cooked the motor at CMP last fall (had to push it on the trailer), we were given a residual of $100. As the car has already run 3 races, and in its best finish was 130 laps down from the leader (Stafford), our residuals were low each time. The rear shocks are used stock Mustang rear Bilsteins (Cobra takeoffs with 40ish k) for $100 shipped from Ricardo Topete on corral net. The fronts are el cheapo stockers from ebay, $50 offer for the pair accepted by a liquidator. I think they were Monroes or Gabriels.

The springs are vogtland. They were on sale for $200, with free shipping. The rest of the suspension and car is stock. We ground off the guides for the front control arms and enlongated the holes to get more camber. Never modded the motor, trans, or computer. Never had the intake or cam covers off. Never tuned it up. All we did was gut the everloving crap out of it, as you know. That and tires picked us up 3 seconds a lap. Today I gotta try to sell the old block, return the motor, and sell the original suspension air compressor to offset the added cost of the new old motor.

We pride ourselves on integrity, and even though we went nuts trying not to spend more than the allotted $400, we were faced with going over or not racing this weekend, thanks to the bad motor and some other problems. I don't think a lot of teams would drive 8 hours for a trans that is $100 cheaper than one locally, but we honestly did, to keep under budget. That represents how strongly we feel about following the rules. The spending rule keeps this race fun on a budget, and encourages creativity. The first time Jay saw the Mark VIII, he laughed at it openly and called it a piece of shit. No offense taken, it was. Our dream is to have the first Lincoln to win overall, and rerunning and tweaking a Mark VIII race after race after race is our best shot. I could have said I found another $200 motor and swapped them, but I didn't, and I refuse to lie.

I will pull out all the stops yet again to recoup the difference we spent. Anybody need a 4.6 DOHC core motor or suspension compressor?

Captain: Speedycop & The Gang Of Outlaws -'94 Mark VIII (Least Horrible Yank Tank Stafford '09, NOLA '10) '61 Caddy (Org Choice-NL '09) '63 Tbird (EPIC Repair Failure-Gingerman '10, I Got Screwed-Summit Pt '10, I.O.E. WINNER Stafford '10!) '77 Lancia Scorpion (I.O.E. WINNER Joliet 2010!) '67 Galaxie 500 (Judges Choice-CMP '11)
Future Fleet: 1957 Ford Prefect 1942 Buick 1959 Bugeye Project GLCOAT

Re: So our engine for this weekend is no good...

Whew. I edited my post because I thought you would get pissed.  Good deal.  I'll buy you guys a beer at cmp

44

Re: So our engine for this weekend is no good...

A bad motor you end up not using does not count against you in the budget.  So why are you counting it?  If it didn't end up in the car, it doesn't exist for cost purposes.  The motor you end up putting in hits your budget.  If you use some pieces off the other purchased motor, then that proportion should be charged to your budget too.  And when you resell the unused motor, those monies should not count for you. 

I think you're making this more complicated than it needs to be.  Oh, and spare parts do not count either to a certain degree.

Jer / Schumacher Taxi Service
2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)

Re: So our engine for this weekend is no good...

BTW, I too am guilty of accusing teams of cheating without having all the facts. I also believe what goes around comes around, and cheating will never pay off in the end.

Captain: Speedycop & The Gang Of Outlaws -'94 Mark VIII (Least Horrible Yank Tank Stafford '09, NOLA '10) '61 Caddy (Org Choice-NL '09) '63 Tbird (EPIC Repair Failure-Gingerman '10, I Got Screwed-Summit Pt '10, I.O.E. WINNER Stafford '10!) '77 Lancia Scorpion (I.O.E. WINNER Joliet 2010!) '67 Galaxie 500 (Judges Choice-CMP '11)
Future Fleet: 1957 Ford Prefect 1942 Buick 1959 Bugeye Project GLCOAT

46

Re: So our engine for this weekend is no good...

You never know.  We were accused of cheating in our POS Miata even though we got zero penalty laps.  We weren't, and in fact were well UNDER budget.  Unfortunately the results reflected our lack of preparation and our pathetic excuse for a race car---108th out of 120+.

Jer / Schumacher Taxi Service
2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)

Re: So our engine for this weekend is no good...

Jer wrote:

A bad motor you end up not using does not count against you in the budget.  So why are you counting it?  If it didn't end up in the car, it doesn't exist for cost purposes.  The motor you end up putting in hits your budget.  If you use some pieces off the other purchased motor, then that proportion should be charged to your budget too.  And when you resell the unused motor, those monies should not count for you. 

I think you're making this more complicated than it needs to be.  Oh, and spare parts do not count either to a certain degree.

Probably the 3 hours sleep making me less than clear. I know the motor we didn't use doesn't count. We didn't need anything off it, our original motor had everything we needed. Anything we take off the car can be sold and put towards the costs, though, so the original motor core, the auto trans, and the compressor might help us recoup the difference.

I have a problem with teams buying good stuff for spares, then swapping out 'stock' crap after tech for the better parts. That may not get you penalty laps, but its still cheating. Now, during the race, if something breaks, and you have a stock replacement, that should never count. Just my $.02...

Captain: Speedycop & The Gang Of Outlaws -'94 Mark VIII (Least Horrible Yank Tank Stafford '09, NOLA '10) '61 Caddy (Org Choice-NL '09) '63 Tbird (EPIC Repair Failure-Gingerman '10, I Got Screwed-Summit Pt '10, I.O.E. WINNER Stafford '10!) '77 Lancia Scorpion (I.O.E. WINNER Joliet 2010!) '67 Galaxie 500 (Judges Choice-CMP '11)
Future Fleet: 1957 Ford Prefect 1942 Buick 1959 Bugeye Project GLCOAT

Re: So our engine for this weekend is no good...

bob-e wrote:

Whew. I edited my post because I thought you would get pissed.  Good deal.  I'll buy you guys a beer at cmp

I'm pretty thick-skinned. 15 years as a cop in high crime urban areas will do that. I wasn't offended in the least.

Plus, I know what you drive and where you live. I have cop buddies there. Kiss your license goodbye.  smile

Captain: Speedycop & The Gang Of Outlaws -'94 Mark VIII (Least Horrible Yank Tank Stafford '09, NOLA '10) '61 Caddy (Org Choice-NL '09) '63 Tbird (EPIC Repair Failure-Gingerman '10, I Got Screwed-Summit Pt '10, I.O.E. WINNER Stafford '10!) '77 Lancia Scorpion (I.O.E. WINNER Joliet 2010!) '67 Galaxie 500 (Judges Choice-CMP '11)
Future Fleet: 1957 Ford Prefect 1942 Buick 1959 Bugeye Project GLCOAT

Re: So our engine for this weekend is no good...

lol  My younger brother is a cop.  He'll get it reinstated wink  Thanks for your service as a cop btw.  I know from my bro that it's a thankless job sometimes.

Re: So our engine for this weekend is no good...

Not completely thankless. You just thanked me.

Captain: Speedycop & The Gang Of Outlaws -'94 Mark VIII (Least Horrible Yank Tank Stafford '09, NOLA '10) '61 Caddy (Org Choice-NL '09) '63 Tbird (EPIC Repair Failure-Gingerman '10, I Got Screwed-Summit Pt '10, I.O.E. WINNER Stafford '10!) '77 Lancia Scorpion (I.O.E. WINNER Joliet 2010!) '67 Galaxie 500 (Judges Choice-CMP '11)
Future Fleet: 1957 Ford Prefect 1942 Buick 1959 Bugeye Project GLCOAT