The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Newcomers → Will a CB radio work for car communications?
We are looking for something cheap, and I have two old CB radios. We could use the PA output of the radio and use the PA speaker in the car for enough volume. For the microphone we would use an mike from an aviation headset velcroed to the inside of the helmet.
Bad idea?
Lots of people use cb's.
It can work. I've heard that the biggest problem with CB's is that you can get stepped on pretty badly by anyone in a great big trucker convoy, rockin' through the night. The upside to that is that you could have a great conversation while driving in your race car with Big Bear or Rubber Duck, and you can't discount the race-car driving wisdom of a driver who's seen his share of truck stop lovin. I'm just sayin.
Break One-Nine, that's a big Ten-Four on CB radio communications come on.
CBs have the advantage of working when there's no direct line of sight between receiver and transmitter (unlike GMRS/FRS radios, which are on UHF)... but this is the same quality that allows the trucker with 1,500 watts to step on your conversation from three states away. This doesn't seem to happen often to CB-equipped Lemons teams, though.
I would never recommend using marine-band VHF radios- which should have zero interference at most inland tracks and can be picked up dirt cheap on eBay- for Lemons racing, because that would be against FCC regulations.
I would never recommend using marine-band VHF radios- which should have zero interference at most inland tracks and can be picked up dirt cheap on eBay- for Lemons racing, because that would be against FCC regulations.
Some of the larger cars should qualify as a boat, the 61 Caddy, Plymouth Fury, all CV's, Caprice's, etc.
as long as you have a trucker theme and use the appropriate slang it should work
I would never recommend using marine-band VHF radios- which should have zero interference at most inland tracks and can be picked up dirt cheap on eBay- for Lemons racing, because that would be against FCC regulations.
At this point there is a great recommendation smashed with a bit of sarcasm and maybe a little law breaking... Thanks for the tip.
Another thing to find on Ebay.
I like the marine recommendation, but I'm hung up on how to effectively do the driver to pits microphone. Can I take apart the little hand held mic, car mount the PTT button, and then make an extension with a plug so I can use some random other kinds of mics installed in each driver's helmet? I'd anticipate things would be cranky or not work right. Anybody want to share their success here?
Also, marine band radios are certainly cheaper than race radios, but I was still looking at about $100 for a "base", 1 or 2 hand helds, antenna, various connectors.
We have a set of VOX radios but we have yet to PROVE their usefulness in a race enviroment...
I like the marine recommendation, but I'm hung up on how to effectively do the driver to pits microphone. Can I take apart the little hand held mic, car mount the PTT button, and then make an extension with a plug so I can use some random other kinds of mics installed in each driver's helmet? I'd anticipate things would be cranky or not work right. Anybody want to share their success here?
Also, marine band radios are certainly cheaper than race radios, but I was still looking at about $100 for a "base", 1 or 2 hand helds, antenna, various connectors.
If you go beyond CB or GMRS/FRS radios for your team communications, it is almost invariably bound to get pricey. A lot of folks around here seem to have had luck with some Midland GMRS radios with a reasonably-priced motorcycle helmet headphone kit, do a search above and you'll run into it. There are downsides with the GMRS radios (at least theoretically) but many teams seem to have run this Midland system with success.
If you want to hook up a PTT to a handheld solution, you probably should look into getting a car harness too. But that's but one step down an expensive road. Don't say you haven't been warned. 
Good luck.
A lot of folks around here seem to have had luck with some Midland GMRS radios with a reasonably-priced motorcycle helmet headphone kit, do a search above and you'll run into it. There are downsides with the GMRS radios (at least theoretically) but many teams seem to have run this Midland system with success.
We have the Midland GMRS setup and are happy with it. I do have one complaint though. The fall 2009 race at CMP we had ZERO interference. This past weekend we switched channels/privacy codes three times and still had interference from other teams. We couldn't figure out who it was to ask them to switch either.
I wonder for the next event if it would be too much to ask for team to post their channels here so we don't "walk on each other"? We aren't trading government secrets in our broadcasts or anything so it's not like we are hiding something I wouln't want another team to over hear. We mainly use the radio to call the flags, shedule pit stops, and communicate any problems we may have with the car. We don't chit-chat at all on ours.
I wonder for the next event if it would be too much to ask for team to post their channels here so we don't "walk on each other"?
This would be OK for CB, but the channel numbers on GMRS/FRS radios tend to be brand-specific and not shared between, say, Midland and Cobra models. This means that teams would need to look in their radios' user guides, cross-reference the channel-number/frequency assignments, and figure out the frequencies they'd be using... and that will never happen.
i thought about the channel-posting (e.g., use the channel corresponding to your car's number) but yeah...the lack of standardization kind of kills that.
that said, we've been very happy w/ our Midland GRMS. it's not as good as our teammates' fancy-pants setup (which is awesome, BTW), but it works well enough.
that is to say, it works a lot better than did our old system, which featured a mic clipped to the driver's collar while an unmuffled 4AG screamed three feet away at 7000rpm.
This would be OK for CB, but the channel numbers on GMRS/FRS radios tend to be brand-specific and not shared between, say, Midland and Cobra models. This means that teams would need to look in their radios' user guides, cross-reference the channel-number/frequency assignments, and figure out the frequencies they'd be using... and that will never happen.
I didn't realize that was the case. Bummer.
that said, we've been very happy w/ our Midland GRMS. it's not as good as our teammates' fancy-pants setup (which is awesome, BTW), but it works well enough.
Buzz what channel/privacy code were you guys running? We started on CH16 PC20 and got walked on something terrible especially during the full course yellows.
...because that would be against FCC regulations.
As far as that goes, use of GMRS frequencies also requires a license. Quite often this gets overlooked when selecting channels on a dual GMRS/FRS radio. I believe there's an exception for the "shared" channels 1-7, as long as you stay under half a watt.
Standard-issue disclaimer: I'm just a geologist.
Buzz what channel/privacy code were you guys running? We started on CH16 PC20 and got walked on something terrible especially during the full course yellows.
The privacy codes don't stop your signal from getting stepped on. All they do is prevent you from hearing others on your frequency, most of the time.
We are going with the DB radio route and the driver will just have to be on the receiving end of our bitching. If he has a problem, bring the car in. That coupled with our PIT IN sign on a pole hung over the pitwall should be good. It's our first race. We aren't worrying too much about strategery. Just follow Jay's rules, stay out of trouble and keep going around and around and around. (Much easier said than done).
Buzz Killington wrote:that said, we've been very happy w/ our Midland GRMS. it's not as good as our teammates' fancy-pants setup (which is awesome, BTW), but it works well enough.
Buzz what channel/privacy code were you guys running? We started on CH16 PC20 and got walked on something terrible especially during the full course yellows.
The Schumacher MR2 was on 21/21
The CoROLLa was on 17/17
Every radio sounds great when your in the pits but once your on the track the noise level is really bad and of course everyone's wearing a helmet. If you can, get the speaker and the transmitter close enough to the driver so that he can understand every expletive that your yelling at him. Our first attempt at radios was a disaster, and we had Motorola SP50's.
Thank you for your responses. We are going to look at what CB and VHF radios we can get our hands on and go from there. We are also going to have a backup plan with turn signals and signs as the failure rate for radios seems pretty high.
Not sure how much two way communication we will need. "Hey, I believe oil and coolant have just met each other" or "Driver the car is on fire..."
Every radio sounds great when your in the pits but once your on the track the noise level is really bad and of course everyone's wearing a helmet. If you can, get the speaker and the transmitter close enough to the driver so that he can understand every expletive that your yelling at him. Our first attempt at radios was a disaster, and we had Motorola SP50's.
agreed. we've found that the Midland AVP2 headset works well. the earpads stick on top of your helmet padding right on your ears, and the mic gets stuck on the front of your helmet, an inch or so in front of your mouth. not perfect, but it works pretty well without having to step up to a pricey dedicated comm system (which, again, is frigging awesome).
VKZ24 wrote:Buzz what channel/privacy code were you guys running? We started on CH16 PC20 and got walked on something terrible especially during the full course yellows.
The privacy codes don't stop your signal from getting stepped on. All they do is prevent you from hearing others on your frequency, most of the time.
Interesting. If the offending team was using a GMRS setup (which I don't know that for sure) how would one 5-watt radio walk over another unless they both were on the exact same channel /privacy code?
Anyone here into the whole Ham radio thing? I'm sure they could explain it better and maybe help us GMRS users a bit.
I'm not a ham radio guy (not that there's anything wrong with that), but here's what I've learned. All 16 of the GMRS channels use the exact same frequencies, regardless of the radio manufacturer. For example, channel 1 on a Motorola radio and channel 1 on a Midland radio are both going to be running on 462.550 MHz (which makes these UHF frequencies, for those who care). Same is true on all the other 15 channels. The FRS frequencies start at 462.5625MHz and have 14 available channels (a/k/a frequencies) but FRS Channel 1 on Motorola is again going to be on the same frequency as FRS Channel 1 on Midland/other radio manufacturer.
What differentiates them between manufacturers is the privacy codes and (possibly) encryption algorithms. So when two teams are using channel 1 but on different privacy codes, they can't hear what the other one is saying, but the frequency is jammed up (stepped on).
At least I think that's how it works.
The main advantage of GMRS is that it is less restricted and usually more powerful (you can use any antenna and wattages up to 50w, whereas FRS are limited to 1/2 watt and must use a fixed rubber antenna), but GMRS requires an FCC license to use. And until recently, they were harder to find, which means that fewer folks were using them at the track, and then there was less chance of frequency interference a/k/a getting stepped on. But they're not so hard to find now, which reduces the advantage that was found in using GMRS systems.
The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Newcomers → Will a CB radio work for car communications?