• Registered: 2010-01-30
  • Posts: 3

Topic: Exhibition Class? (A flame-free environment for rookie questions.)

How about a class for old race cars that exceed the $$$  limit but are otherwise Lemons worthy? A $1500 claiming rule and a maximum speed rule(i.e., an exhibition car turning a faster lap than the fastest legal car would be parked until a legal car runs a faster lap) should keep out the "real" racers. Maybe the People's Curse could be amended to allow the team to remove whatever they can in a half hour if they are chosen for destruction. Exhibition cars would not be eligible for awards or prize money. The number of X-cars could be made contingent on the size of the field and/or be limited to a certain number.  And yes, I just happen to have a car that would be fit this category(with 13" rims, no less). There must be many old Showroom Stock and IT cars out there with no place to race. If this is deemed  to be contrary to the spirit of Lemons, I understand.

  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 9,416

Re: Exhibition Class? (A flame-free environment for rookie questions.)

We frequently get teams that can't get their shit together to finish their Lemons car in time, so they beg and plead with Jay to allow to drive their "real" race car (almost invariably a Spec Piñata) "just for fun." Sometimes Jay's coal-black heart softens a bit and lets them drive.

Then they go out and rack up vast quantities of black flags and get put on the trailer for the weekend. Every damn time.

Murilee Martin aka Judge Phil on Facebook
Murilee Martin on Twitter
Judge Phil's Lemons posts on Car and Driver
MurileeMartin.com

Judge Phil's Website

  • From: Los Fucking Angeles
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 1,032

Re: Exhibition Class? (A flame-free environment for rookie questions.)

MurileeMartin wrote:

We frequently get teams that can't get their shit together to finish their Lemons car in time, so they beg and plead with Jay to allow to drive their "real" race car (almost invariably a Spec Piñata) "just for fun." Sometimes Jay's coal-black heart softens a bit and lets them drive.

Then they go out and rack up vast quantities of black flags and get put on the trailer for the weekend. Every damn time.

yeah, they are racing at our pleasure.

Meaning that the first penalty on our dime, they get 30 minutes, straight up.

Second, 60 minutes

you get the drift.

As far as a special class for > $500 cars, NO.

"This is the scene where I get shot," Bronson said. "I have these little squibs that explode to make it look like bullets are hitting." "Fascinating," said Bergman. "I never knew how they did that." "You mean," asked Bronson, "you don't use machine guns in your movies?"
  • From: Houston, TX
  • Registered: 2009-10-06
  • Posts: 1,008

Re: Exhibition Class? (A flame-free environment for rookie questions.)

MurileeMartin wrote:

We frequently get teams that can't get their shit together to finish their Lemons car in time, so they beg and plead with Jay to allow to drive their "real" race car (almost invariably a Spec Piñata) "just for fun." Sometimes Jay's coal-black heart softens a bit and lets them drive.

Then they go out and rack up vast quantities of black flags and get put on the trailer for the weekend. Every damn time.

After which we all breath a ginormous sigh of relief.  One - what if I mess up and hit the "real" race car.  What if he messes up and hits my crapheap?  Crashed crapheap = heartache but no huge loss.  Crashed Spec-Whatever = $$$$.  Two - when in his "real" race car he'll inevitably start acting like he's in a "real" race.  And since he's in his "real" race car that can actually go really really fast... It just doesn't seem right.

I know the OP wasn't really talking about the Spec guys I'm bitching about; he was talking about only slightly nicer crapheaps.  But I'm with the judges, and I don't like the idea.  Mostly because I think it would crowd the track.  It would also dilute the Essence of Crap that I so love about Lemons.

I'm the doctor who is a wife. Which makes the grease hard to explain to my patients... www.tetanusneon.com.

Dr. Wife's Website

5 Reply by Bonedriver (edited by Bonedriver 2010-02-16 03:05 AM)

  • From: Charleston, SC
  • Registered: 2009-08-08
  • Posts: 466

Re: Exhibition Class? (A flame-free environment for rookie questions.)

Here is a list of places that let you race old race cars:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vintage sports car racing
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Add-Vintage Motors — Restoration shop in Hauser Lake, Idaho
http://www.addvintagemotors.com/
Arch Motor and Manufacturing Co., Ltd.
http://www.archmotor.co.uk/

AS Motorsport
http://www.asmotorsport.co.uk/

Aston Martin Lagonda Limited
http://www.astonmartin.com/

Austin 7 Club
http://www.austin7club.org/

The Automotive Archeologists, Ltd.
http://www.autoarch.com/

Dave Bean Engineering
http://www.davebean.com/

Jack Brabham
http://www.jackbrabham.com/

The Brooklands Society
http://www.brooklands.org.uk/

Chevron Racing
http://www.chevronracing.com/

Cooper Cars
http://www.coopercars.org/

ECTA — East Coast Timing Association — racing at Bonneville and Maxton, North Carolina
http://www.ecta-lsr.com/

Elva Racing Components
http://www.elva.com/

fatto gatto racing
http://www.fattogatto.com/

Fiberglass Sports Cars 1950 to 1965
http://www.fiberglasssportscars.com/

Formula 5000 Registry
http://www.f5000registry.com/

Formula Race Car Club of America
http://www.frcca.com/

Dan Gurney's All American Racers
http://www.allamericanracers.com/

The Goodwood Festival of Speed
http://www.goodwood.co.uk/

HSR — Historic Sports Car Racing, Ltd.
http://www.hsrrace.com/

HSR West — Historic Sports Car Racing West, Inc.
http://www.hsr-westracing.com/

Henry Jones' Vintage Mustang
http://www.historicmustang.com/

Historicracing.org.uk
http://www.historicracing.org.uk/

International Motor Racing Research Center at Watkins Glen
http://www.racingarchives.org/

Lesco Automotive Machine
http://www.4-lesco.com/

Lola Cars International, Ltd.
http://www.lola-group.com/

Lynx Motors International, Ltd. — vintage Jaguar racers
http://www.lynxmotors.co.uk/

Marchives
http://www.marchives.com/

Bruce McLaren Trust
http://www.bruce-mclaren.com/

McLaren International
http://www.mclaren.co.uk/

Tam McPartland's Old Race Car Site
http://www.tamsoldracecarsite.net/

Merlyn Cars — spare parts available from CRD Tool & Engineering
http://www.merlyncars.com/

Morgan Motor Company
http://www.morgan-motor.co.uk/

Stirling Moss
http://www.stirlingmoss.com/

OldRacingCars.com
http://www.oldracingcars.com/

Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance
http://www.pebblebeachconcours.net/

Portland Historic Races
http://www.portlandhistorics.com/

Race-cars.com — vintage sports racing cars for sale
http://www.race-cars.com/

Race Legends
http://www.racelegends.com/

Ralt Racing Cars
http://www.ralt-racing.co.uk/

Retro Track & Air (UK), Ltd.
http://www.retrotrack.co.uk/

Robin Automotive
http://www.robinautomotive.com/

SascoSports, Inc.
http://www.sascosports.com/

SCCA — Sports Car Club of America
http://www.scca.com/

SCTA — Southern California Timing Association — racing at Bonneville, El Mirage and Muroc
http://www.scta-bni.org/

John Starkey Cars
http://www.johnstarkeycars.com/

SVRA — Sportscar Vintage Racing Association
http://www.svra.com/

Symbolic Motors
http://www.symbolicmotors.com/

Think Fast Ink
http://www.lastopenroad.com/

USFRA — Utah Salt Flats Racing Association — racing at the Bonneville Salt Flats
http://www.saltflats.com/

VARAC — Vintage Auto Racing Association of Canada
http://www.varac.ca/

Victory Lane — "The vintage and historic racing magazine"
http://www.victorylane.com/

Vintage Engineering — McLaren parts
http://www.vintageeng.com/

The Vintage Garage — vintage Lotus racers
http://www.vintagegarage.com/

Vintage Motorsport — "The journal of motor racing history"
http://www.vintagemotorsport.com/

Vintage Racecar Journal
http://www.vintageracecar.com/

VintageRaceCars.com
http://www.vintageracecars.com/

Vintage Sports Car Drivers Association
http://www.vscda.org/

Bob Woodman Tires, Inc. — for vintage sports racing cars
http://www.bobwoodmantires.com/






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vintage stock car racing
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Living Legends of Auto Racing, Inc.
http://www.livinglegendsofautoracing.com/
North Carolina Auto Racing Hall of Fame
http://www.ncarhof.com/

Northwest Vintage Modified
http://www.nwvintagemodified.com/

Racetorations
http://www.racetorations.com/

Thunderplex
http://www.thunderplex.com/

Vintage Modifieds
http://www.vintagemodifieds.com/

Vintage Oval Track Magazine
http://www.vintageovalracing.com/

____________________________________
Always running on E \ ' ' ' ' F 
Speedycop and the Gang of Outlaws Official Ten+ Time Loser
Owner #132 Lancia/Toyota Beta/MR2 Scorpion

Bonedriver's Website

  • jmitch
  • Ripened Lemon
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2009-11-02
  • Posts: 154

Re: Exhibition Class? (A flame-free environment for rookie questions.)

Bonedriver, is that ALL you could come up with? Do a little research before posting!

7 Reply by Spinnetti (edited by Spinnetti 2010-02-16 04:43 AM)

  • From: Frisco, Texas
  • Registered: 2009-05-02
  • Posts: 1,430

Re: Exhibition Class? (A flame-free environment for rookie questions.)

MurileeMartin wrote:

We frequently get teams that can't get their shit together to finish their Lemons car in time, so they beg and plead with Jay to allow to drive their "real" race car (almost invariably a Spec Piñata) "just for fun." Sometimes Jay's coal-black heart softens a bit and lets them drive.

Then they go out and rack up vast quantities of black flags and get put on the trailer for the weekend. Every damn time.

And, they disrupt the race and in our case rear ended us (the guy was drunk?) at speed while I was not moving under a yellow induced traffic jam, destroying our trans two hours from the end when we had a shot at the win.... I'm thinking this dog just don't hunt.

"Don't mess with Lexas!" LS400. We survived another one! See website link for build details.
Maker of the "unofficial Lemons fish!" - If you ask nice, I'll likely give you one at the track.

Spinnetti's Website

  • From: Automation Alley
  • Registered: 2009-07-14
  • Posts: 206

Re: Exhibition Class? (A flame-free environment for rookie questions.)

If it was truly a crap car (a Vega or such), I might be forgiving. But nothing worth more than $1K should ever be on the track.

Captainess: #88 Scirocket Racing - Did someone say Pikachu?

atomicalex's Website

  • From: Bloomington, IN
  • Registered: 2009-08-14
  • Posts: 1,525

Re: Exhibition Class? (A flame-free environment for rookie questions.)

My question is why?  Get your act together, get the car done, or pull out.  I'm not trying to sound harsh, but we had nothing really done a week before our last race(long story), and we managed to get it done.  It's a race for $500 cars, pure and simple.  I was at nelsons when spinetti got hosed, and that really wasn't fair.  They were within the rules, and get screwed by some idiot out there driving like a jackass.  One of the reason we don't have all that much on track contact anymore is most everyone has put a lot of time and energy in getting these cars ready, and really doesn't feel like losing it all.  If you want to race an it car, go to scca, go to track days, etc.

Bloomington, IN
We'll bring Beer!  Motorsports
Team Fiery Death! #0 2009 Lamest Day(65th), 2010 American Irony(24th), 2010 Detroit Bull(4th),2012 Capitol Offense (8th) 2012 American Irony (11 th), 2013 Capitol Offense (3rd) 2013 Chubba Chedder (4th, Judge Choice!) Now sadly part of a scrap pile. 
Toothless Racing Deadbeats #110 2011 Summit Point (61st) Currently being rebuilt into the new car!
  • From: Seattle, WA
  • Registered: 2009-10-28
  • Posts: 2,111

Re: Exhibition Class? (A flame-free environment for rookie questions.)

jaybee_racing wrote:

How about a class for old race cars that exceed the $$$  limit but are otherwise Lemons worthy?  ...Exhibition cars would not be eligible for awards or prize money.

If it really is sufficiently 'oddball, mundane, and truly awful,' there are three exhibition events on the calendar this year with trophies and everything (well, everything except racing and prize money):

http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/concours10/

"Sparky" Pete took his at-the-time Killer Bee to the last one and, by all accounts, had a good time.

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'Lemons
1978 H Special: Second-Round Elimination 2010 Lemons Pinewood Derby at Sears Pointless
1967 SAAB 96: IOE 2012 Pacific Northworst GP, Organizer's Choice 2022 Hell on Wheels California Rally
  • From: Gilbertsville, PA
  • Registered: 2009-12-22
  • Posts: 3,251

Re: Exhibition Class? (A flame-free environment for rookie questions.)

or you could enter like normal and take bs laps.  100 laps, out of contention, problem solved!

Silent But Deadly Racing-  Ricky Bobby's Laughing Clown Malt Liquor Thunderbird , Datsun 510, 87 Mustang (The Race Team Formerly Known as Prince), 72 Pinto Squire waggy, Parnelli Jones 67 Galaxie, Turbo Coupe Surf wagon.(The Surfin Bird), Squatting Dogs In Tracksuits,  Space Pants!  Roy Fuckin Kent and The tribute to a tribute to a tribute THUNDERBIRD/ SUNDAHBADOH!
  • RobL
  • RobL
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
  • Offline
  • From: Philly area
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 2,721

Re: Exhibition Class? (A flame-free environment for rookie questions.)

Sir Thomas Crapper wrote:

or you could enter like normal and take bs laps.  100 laps, out of contention, problem solved!

There is always that pesky claiming rule.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

RobL's Website

  • Registered: 2009-10-25
  • Posts: 1,993

Re: Exhibition Class? (A flame-free environment for rookie questions.)

I remember watching a real spec pinata running test day at Thunderhill right before Arse-Freeze.....it was "entertaining" to watch the miata KILL every single Lemons racer out there by a wide margin.... were talking 10+ seconds a lap!!!

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2
  • From: Emeryville CA
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 572

Re: Exhibition Class? (A flame-free environment for rookie questions.)

We've let plenty of teams slide on the $500 thing if their car is totally terrible. For example, I think the Renault Alliance at Thunderhill was pushing the limits. I think it comes down to a distinction between being loony (the kind of guy that overspends on a Renault Alliance) and just sorta lame (the kind of guy who just couldn't figure out how to build a Lemons car). We like loony, but there are other series out there for lame.

On a related note, why is it that the kind of team who can't get their act together in time for the race always seems to have a Spec Miata?

Nick_LemonsHQ's Website

  • From: Angier
  • Registered: 2009-09-19
  • Posts: 705

Re: Exhibition Class? (A flame-free environment for rookie questions.)

Nick_LeMonsHQ wrote:

We've let plenty of teams slide on the $500 thing if their car is totally terrible. For example, I think the Renault Alliance at Thunderhill was pushing the limits. I think it comes down to a distinction between being loony (the kind of guy that overspends on a Renault Alliance) and just sorta lame (the kind of guy who just couldn't figure out how to build a Lemons car). We like loony, but there are other series out there for lame.

On a related note, why is it that the kind of team who can't get their act together in time for the race always seems to have a Spec Miata?

i believe, by definition, Miata Guys are "special".  smile

every one i know is off-kilter in some manner or another.   ecugrad?

whatever it was i didn't do it
dorifto dogs E30 - gone but not forgotten

Lee Ho Fook's Racing E36
  • Troy
  • Troy
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
  • Offline
  • From: Houston, TX
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 1,634

Re: Exhibition Class? (A flame-free environment for rookie questions.)

I'm gonna stick up for the Spec Miata drivers here.

I've raced with several Spec Miata drivers.  If they are any good, they tend to do well in a Crap Can.  Granted much of my experience is with pretty good finishing Spec Miata drivers. 

There are also plenty of Spec Miata drivers who do there own wrenching and financial struggling to keep there Miatas on the track.  Those guys are pretty similar to most of our crowd and make up part of our crowd.

Guys that race Miatas like they are disposable or race anything like its disposable are not likely to appreciate a competitors car any more then their own car.  Those are the guys to avoid.

Good driver's and competitors come from as many diverse back grounds as the bad ones.  Spec Miata is the largest field in SCCA in NASA so they are more common.  That doesn't make them all bad. 

My best drivers have been Spec Miata racers and they have never put a scratch on the car.  Well, maybe one did.  They have caused no major harm to my car or any other car with my car.

If a Spec Miata hit my car, it would probably end up worse off out of the deal.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z
  • Registered: 2009-10-25
  • Posts: 1,993

Re: Exhibition Class? (A flame-free environment for rookie questions.)

Nick_LeMonsHQ wrote:

On a related note, why is it that the kind of team who can't get their act together in time for the race always seems to have a Spec Miata?

they probably just rent the spec miatas.....

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2
  • From: Los Fucking Angeles
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 1,032

Re: Exhibition Class? (A flame-free environment for rookie questions.)

Troy wrote:

I'm gonna stick up for the Spec Miata drivers here.

You would.

And now I know how to punish all Miata drivers this weekend...

"This is the scene where I get shot," Bronson said. "I have these little squibs that explode to make it look like bullets are hitting." "Fascinating," said Bergman. "I never knew how they did that." "You mean," asked Bronson, "you don't use machine guns in your movies?"
  • Riktor
  • Riktor
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
  • Offline
  • From: Dallas/Ft. Worth, Texas
  • Registered: 2009-08-06
  • Posts: 1,138

Re: Exhibition Class? (A flame-free environment for rookie questions.)

Judge Jonny wrote:
Troy wrote:

I'm gonna stick up for the Spec Miata drivers here.

You would.

And now I know how to punish all Miata drivers this weekend...

Does it involve a bit of duct tape?

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"
  • Registered: 2009-09-22
  • Posts: 367

Re: Exhibition Class? (A flame-free environment for rookie questions.)

Riktor wrote:

Does it involve a couple of rolls of duct tape?

Fixed that for you.

Head Hoopy Frood
www.mostlyharmlessracing.com
  • Riktor
  • Riktor
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
  • Offline
  • From: Dallas/Ft. Worth, Texas
  • Registered: 2009-08-06
  • Posts: 1,138

Re: Exhibition Class? (A flame-free environment for rookie questions.)

Zachreligious wrote:
Riktor wrote:

Does it involve a couple of rolls of duct tape?

Fixed that for you.

A bit equals...

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa25/ringostarsbar/600_Rolls_of_Duct_Tape_by_DuckTapeB.jpg

And I also found something fun...

MANY uses for duct tape...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Muq_KYGEBak/Swmnc37K3lI/AAAAAAAAB40/Kcp6DOfKDZ4/s1600/duct+tape+couch.jpg
[imghttp://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01487/Duct-tape-cat_1487802c.jpg[/img]
http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_mar2005/DuctTapeWallBed.jpg
http://www.teleglass.com/auto-glass-blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/DuctTape2.jpg
http://www.octanecreative.com/ducttape/art/images/duct_tape_mummy.jpg

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"
  • Registered: 2009-09-22
  • Posts: 367

Re: Exhibition Class? (A flame-free environment for rookie questions.)

Nice!

I'm sure we can find a suitable wall to duct tape drivers to.

Head Hoopy Frood
www.mostlyharmlessracing.com
  • Riktor
  • Riktor
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
  • Offline
  • From: Dallas/Ft. Worth, Texas
  • Registered: 2009-08-06
  • Posts: 1,138

Re: Exhibition Class? (A flame-free environment for rookie questions.)

Zachreligious wrote:

Nice!

I'm sure we can find a suitable wall to duct tape drivers to.

Or Jay's rental car...

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"