Re: (Unwritten) Rules of Lemons Racing

True...  you can make that statement.  smile

mharrell wrote:
TeamLemon-aid wrote:

We always ran the racing line in a 55HP Geo and never had an issue.

Well, yeah, when you're in an overpowered brute of a machine like that, of course you can run the line.

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

27 (edited by Guildenstern 2018-04-30 08:40 PM)

Re: (Unwritten) Rules of Lemons Racing

RobL wrote:

It depends on what you are defining as "risky."  Passing in turns is some of the easiest ways to pass.

Risky as in if you don't know to a reasonable level of confidence that the guy you're trying to come inside on won't blindly put his fender in your door.

Passing Exiting a turn is the easiest pass, because you know the person your passing will drift to the outside unless someone crowds them in, AND you know by then that you will be faster than them. Followed by the faster exit on to the straight pass. Which happens more in the clip you posted from the start point to 27 min than any other passes. (21:14 and 22:11 for some good examples)



RobL wrote:

I'd be curious to watch some of your laps and see how you do handle traffic.  I'm wondering if this is regional or per track etiquette that has developed.

Prepare to be UNDERWHELMED!

https://youtu.be/YLounqPdGgU

RobL wrote:

Here is part of one of my stints (Rob vs. Rob - A friend of mine is in the brick mustang and I am in our mustang).  The yellow car gives us room on the inside to get our passes done.  Which according to you is risky/sprint car passing.  I then give room to right to let the BMW pass and get to the apex.  I lose a little time but I didn't wipe him out since it would have been his responsibility to make a clean pass while I move to the apex.  Then in the next corner, I pass the Subaru mid/late turn after he allows room.  https://youtu.be/2ROAhjuOqRE?t=18m15s

You can see exactly what I'm talking about at 26:51 when two cars leave the apex open for me to dive into.  And then a few turns later a blue and while car does the same thing - leaves room to the apex to (apparently) let me go.  Then one turn later, I do the same and let the honda go.

I literally just see a lot of cars of diffrent paces reacting to each other sharing a track. Half of the "Made way for you" just look like good old fashioned holes followed by drivers being mindful of not driving into cars taking advantage of those holes. There really weren't any "competitive" passes. The only cars you were matched with were never close enough for a pass, or were just past your rear view mirror.

Which returns to my point which is, you don't NEED to make every pass EVERY time, because most podiums are separated by multiple LAPS. That's what makes it diffrent from a 20 min sprint race or a 2 hour "event" race where most of the field finishes on the same lap. As an overtaking driver you have the luxury to exercise the patience of waiting for a good clean pass, because the person you're "racing" on the race monitor is LAPS ahead or behind you usually. So other drivers shouldn't have to worry about helping you by unless they are definitely slower than the cars around them.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata.

Re: (Unwritten) Rules of Lemons Racing

therood wrote:
Fishah wrote:
TheEngineer wrote:

Well that one is a little over dramatic. People's definition of rowdy varies greatly. I get the point you mean, which is don't be a giant dick and do something that will ruin it for the rest of us. But night time is fun time, do enjoy yourself.

Is that even a thing? Been doing this for a while, and never seen anyone do any of the above.

From time to time, yes. For example, try not to wield a knife and stab a teammate in the paddock at Thompson. That was in one of the wrap-up videos.


This is exactly what I was referring to...
Thompson is lots of fun, great late night partying, loud music, dancing, and even a huge wild bonfire up on the hill!

But that particular team...even tried, decided they wanted to take their car on the track at night for a few spins...and yes, things got dangerous, violent...so cops were called....
They did not set a good example of what Lemons is about....

MarioKart Driving School: 1987 Honda Prelude Opus #28  (still can't win anything...)

29 (edited by RobL 2018-05-01 06:15 AM)

Re: (Unwritten) Rules of Lemons Racing

Guildenstern wrote:
RobL wrote:

I'd be curious to watch some of your laps and see how you do handle traffic.  I'm wondering if this is regional or per track etiquette that has developed.

Prepare to be UNDERWHELMED!

https://youtu.be/YLounqPdGgU

Nope, that's exactly what I expected to see.  You drive exactly like I describe.  You make it easy to pass you and you don't assume that "I HAVE THE LINE, YOU MUST AVOID ME!!!1!1!!" attitude that you seem to propose. 

Which returns to my point which is, you don't NEED to make every pass EVERY time, because most podiums are separated by multiple LAPS. That's what makes it diffrent from a 20 min sprint race or a 2 hour "event" race where most of the field finishes on the same lap. As an overtaking driver you have the luxury to exercise the patience of waiting for a good clean pass, because the person you're "racing" on the race monitor is LAPS ahead or behind you usually. So other drivers shouldn't have to worry about helping you by unless they are definitely slower than the cars around them.

We are mostly saying the same thing here.  The difference is that, as a straight up mid-pack class B car, I am not going to be able to pass about half the cars out there if they decide not to make it easy.  If someone in a slightly slower car that I want to pass, decides to race me to the corner and close the door to the apex over and over, I am not going to be able to pass them without their help - especially if the cars are better in different areas (corner speeds vs. straight line speed).  So both cars need to be aware of each other and the lead drive may need to yield space during the pass.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: (Unwritten) Rules of Lemons Racing

Brett85p wrote:
VanillaHaze wrote:

On the subject of faster cars, I have a little bit of a different position. You don't have to slow way down or do weird shit to let them by. Communicating on track isn't always clear, so it's best to just let a faster car find a way around you while you hold the racing line. If you want to let them by more definitively just let up on the straights, or brake early if they are coming next to you. In my opinion this is the best way to let people by as it is inherently the same as what you are already driving. making your movement the most predictable.

I am also of the opinion that the guy racing for 40th has just as much right to fight for a corner as the guys shooting for first. This is a race and nobody owns the line. That said, it's every driver's responsibility to learn the basic racing line and how to adjust that line to go through the corner two or three wide because it will happen and you need to know where to be.

If you see a bright blue car in your mirror get the hell out of the way!

Brett, if I let you by, how will I be able to let you know you're number 1?

Passing in turns is the only way that a competitive car without a ton of power can stay competitve. This is why I live my life one dive bomb at a time (TM). Drivers need to become comfortable with going into the corner two or three wide because it's going to happen, and it's going to happen a lot. The key to learning this is to not go in anywhere near flat out until you are comfortable with the concepts described here with lanes, lines, and various braking points.

I will agree that there is no room for blocking with two rare exceptions:

1. If you are racing with someone for position in the last hour of the race, and are both skilled drivers. If you don't understand blocking rules in major series', this isn't you.

2. If you believe that a pass being attempted will create undue risk. The best example for this one is turn 8 at Joliet with any amount of wetness. The outside line gets very slick, so I will not let anybody get inside of me and pin me in the bad line with the potential of running off track. I usually make extra effort to let the driver by after this if they are clearly faster than me as it is not intended to hold somebody else up for no reason.

Owner of the Knights Templar Neon
A&D of middling proportions

Re: (Unwritten) Rules of Lemons Racing

RobL wrote:
Guildenstern wrote:
RobL wrote:

I'd be curious to watch some of your laps and see how you do handle traffic.  I'm wondering if this is regional or per track etiquette that has developed.

Prepare to be UNDERWHELMED!

https://youtu.be/YLounqPdGgU

Nope, that's exactly what I expected to see.  You drive exactly like I describe.  You make it easy to pass you and you don't assume that "I HAVE THE LINE, YOU MUST AVOID ME!!!1!1!!" attitude that you seem to propose. 

[

That was exactly not what I was proposing. I’m simply saying drivers shouldn’t be expected in an unwritten rule to make way for leader cars. At that point we could just staple blue flags to every cornerstation.

I basically just espouse egoistic altruism, my main goal is to do everything not to hit anyone, and so is everyone else's. But, I don’t think it should be every drivers burden to run everyone else’s race for them. Especially just because they are in the lead of a class. That would become operationally overwhelming, especially for noobs. There’s over 100 cars out there, now they have to constantly look out for the specific flat black try-hard mobile that happens to be near the top of the timing sheet (which doesn’t have pictures or anything) who’s probably just going to flake out or black flag out mid-sunday anyways and lose to a win in the pits team anyways?

No, just manage the pack of cars around you so nobody ends up inside or ontop of anyone else. The rest will sort itself out. Especially if the leader really is god’s gift to motor racing.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata.

Re: (Unwritten) Rules of Lemons Racing

VanillaHaze wrote:

Passing in turns is the only way that a competitive car without a ton of power can stay competitve. This is why I live my life one dive bomb at a time (TM).

Or, you think about how that car you just busted your but to pass is about to pit and spend the next 20 minutes recreating a 3 stooges routine.

Laps matter, passes do not.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata.

Re: (Unwritten) Rules of Lemons Racing

I agree with an early harmless block to prevent an optimistic or dangerous pass for a corner.   Just not for laps.

I’m ok with a defensive line for the last 1-2 laps of a race if racing for position with the other car.   You have to know that car and that driver (IMO).  I think driving a defensive line for an hour is asking for trouble. 

VanillaHaze wrote:
Brett85p wrote:
VanillaHaze wrote:

On the subject of faster cars, I have a little bit of a different position. You don't have to slow way down or do weird shit to let them by. Communicating on track isn't always clear, so it's best to just let a faster car find a way around you while you hold the racing line. If you want to let them by more definitively just let up on the straights, or brake early if they are coming next to you. In my opinion this is the best way to let people by as it is inherently the same as what you are already driving. making your movement the most predictable.

I am also of the opinion that the guy racing for 40th has just as much right to fight for a corner as the guys shooting for first. This is a race and nobody owns the line. That said, it's every driver's responsibility to learn the basic racing line and how to adjust that line to go through the corner two or three wide because it will happen and you need to know where to be.

If you see a bright blue car in your mirror get the hell out of the way!

Brett, if I let you by, how will I be able to let you know you're number 1?

Passing in turns is the only way that a competitive car without a ton of power can stay competitve. This is why I live my life one dive bomb at a time (TM). Drivers need to become comfortable with going into the corner two or three wide because it's going to happen, and it's going to happen a lot. The key to learning this is to not go in anywhere near flat out until you are comfortable with the concepts described here with lanes, lines, and various braking points.

I will agree that there is no room for blocking with two rare exceptions:

1. If you are racing with someone for position in the last hour of the race, and are both skilled drivers. If you don't understand blocking rules in major series', this isn't you.

2. If you believe that a pass being attempted will create undue risk. The best example for this one is turn 8 at Joliet with any amount of wetness. The outside line gets very slick, so I will not let anybody get inside of me and pin me in the bad line with the potential of running off track. I usually make extra effort to let the driver by after this if they are clearly faster than me as it is not intended to hold somebody else up for no reason.

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: (Unwritten) Rules of Lemons Racing

The difference between the fast class A cars is how good you are passing in traffic.  The difference is often 5 secs per lap or more.  Assuming you’re clean... 5 secs per lap is hard to make up even through driver stint lengths and short pit times. 

The bar is pretty high in class A (at least it is in the Midwest).  Lapping is losing.

Guildenstern wrote:
VanillaHaze wrote:

Passing in turns is the only way that a competitive car without a ton of power can stay competitve. This is why I live my life one dive bomb at a time (TM).

Or, you think about how that car you just busted your but to pass is about to pit and spend the next 20 minutes recreating a 3 stooges routine.

Laps matter, passes do not.

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: (Unwritten) Rules of Lemons Racing

VanillaHaze wrote:

2. If you believe that a pass being attempted will create undue risk. The best example for this one is turn 8 at Joliet with any amount of wetness. The outside line gets very slick, so I will not let anybody get inside of me and pin me in the bad line with the potential of running off track. I usually make extra effort to let the driver by after this if they are clearly faster than me as it is not intended to hold somebody else up for no reason.

Kind of off topic but are you sure you mean turn 8, because I passed a ton of cars by running near the grass on the outside through there in the wet.  Way more grip than the inside or middle lines. 

Turn 7 (the fast kink just before 8) was a totally different story and like you I basically refused to allow myself to get pushed to the outside line through there.

Pretty much agree with all your other comments BTW.

Electric Mayhem Racing

Re: (Unwritten) Rules of Lemons Racing

TeamLemon-aid wrote:

The difference between the fast class A cars is how good you are passing in traffic.  The difference is often 5 secs per lap or more.  Assuming you’re clean... 5 secs per lap is hard to make up even through driver stint lengths and short pit times. 

The bar is pretty high in class A (at least it is in the Midwest).  Lapping is losing.

Guildenstern wrote:
VanillaHaze wrote:

Passing in turns is the only way that a competitive car without a ton of power can stay competitve. This is why I live my life one dive bomb at a time (TM).

Or, you think about how that car you just busted your but to pass is about to pit and spend the next 20 minutes recreating a 3 stooges routine.

Laps matter, passes do not.

Then what? You win some nickels?

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata.

Re: (Unwritten) Rules of Lemons Racing

I suppose we like the competition.  We donate all our winnings.   Trying our hardest to beat other teams we have come to respect and befriend is fun to us (me).  I don’t need the Judges approval to have fun.  I know they could care less about A class cars.   Fine with me.  Just let us come and race with the other teams that want to compete in class A.   

That’s what is great about Lemons.  IOE cars out trying to survive, C class cars trying to survive and compete, B class cars competing the same as A, just with slower cars and A class cars trying to win the overall.  All are equally entitled to what they are trying to do. 

Keep in mind, I am not promoting douchebaggery driving.   Just offering an alternative point of view from the “only pass in straights and lapping is the way to success” view point. 


Guildenstern wrote:
TeamLemon-aid wrote:

The difference between the fast class A cars is how good you are passing in traffic.  The difference is often 5 secs per lap or more.  Assuming you’re clean... 5 secs per lap is hard to make up even through driver stint lengths and short pit times. 

The bar is pretty high in class A (at least it is in the Midwest).  Lapping is losing.

Guildenstern wrote:

Or, you think about how that car you just busted your but to pass is about to pit and spend the next 20 minutes recreating a 3 stooges routine.

Laps matter, passes do not.

Then what? You win some nickels?

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

38 (edited by Guildenstern 2018-05-01 02:11 PM)

Re: (Unwritten) Rules of Lemons Racing

I didn’t say only. And I didn’t imply doing so is dangerous, just a higher risk which isn’t always as great a trade as it feels like at the time. Just that it shouldn’t be an “unwritten rule” that people make way for the leaders.

Noobs have enough on their plate without having to worry about some on track hierarchy.

Basically BoB’s assessment is the only “Unwritten rule” that applies. Just be careful, be Mindful and try to maximize Everyones fun.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata.

39 (edited by VKZ24 2018-05-01 01:39 PM)

Re: (Unwritten) Rules of Lemons Racing

VanillaHaze wrote:

I will agree that there is no room for blocking with two rare exceptions:

1. If you are racing with someone for position in the last hour of the race, and are both skilled drivers. If you don't understand blocking rules in major series', this isn't you.

If you (attempt) to block me for an hour, you'll likely get what the old NASCAR boys used to call the old "chrome horn".  For a lap or maybe two at the end of the race I might give you the benefit of the doubt, but more than that, you're being a d*ck, and it's easy for the guy being blocked to "move" you. 

Fortunately over the past 10 years in Lemons, I've never raced with anyone (yet) that was that big of an a$$, but I guess there's always tomorrow.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: (Unwritten) Rules of Lemons Racing

As a slow car driver, I try to keep track of the cars around me and point everyone by where I think we can get the pass over with most quickly and without me sacrificing too much momentum. Sometimes that's on line, and sometimes off, depending on where I am in relation to a corner and where you are in relation to me and our relative speed difference. I figure if I point, then you know what line I'm taking. Sometimes it's easier for me to give you the inside and get you by quickly so I can track out and get ready for the next turn than it is to go for the apex and wait for you to go around the outside. Of course you are free to do whatever you want to do (and some drivers do), but if I point you by on the inside, then I'm probably planning on tracking out to the edge, so passing me on the outside could be exciting!

I try to keep a sharp lookout for the top ten cars, as they are generally in a hurry and willing to take more chances, so I try to make it easiest on them. I also tend to give people that I know and like the easiest pass possible for them.


Other rule: Don't leave your car, RV, golf cart, bicycle, fuel wagon, or anything else on the paved roadway in the paddock, even for a minute. A lot of people were leaving their golf carts right behind where we back out our car this past weekend at the race and it was annoying not hitting them when we backed out of our paddock space.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: (Unwritten) Rules of Lemons Racing

rmcdaniels wrote:

As a slow car driver, I try to keep track of the cars around me and point everyone by where I think we can get the pass over with most quickly and without me sacrificing too much momentum. Sometimes that's on line, and sometimes off, depending on where I am in relation to a corner and where you are in relation to me and our relative speed difference. I figure if I point, then you know what line I'm taking. Sometimes it's easier for me to give you the inside and get you by quickly so I can track out and get ready for the next turn than it is to go for the apex and wait for you to go around the outside. Of course you are free to do whatever you want to do (and some drivers do), but if I point you by on the inside, then I'm probably planning on tracking out to the edge, so passing me on the outside could be exciting!

I try to keep a sharp lookout for the top ten cars, as they are generally in a hurry and willing to take more chances, so I try to make it easiest on them. I also tend to give people that I know and like the easiest pass possible for them.


Other rule: Don't leave your car, RV, golf cart, bicycle, fuel wagon, or anything else on the paved roadway in the paddock, even for a minute. A lot of people were leaving their golf carts right behind where we back out our car this past weekend at the race and it was annoying not hitting them when we backed out of our paddock space.

What car were you in McDaniels?

Butt Sweat & Beers.

Re: (Unwritten) Rules of Lemons Racing

Duff now runs either the Electrica or a Mercedes 240 Diesel (swapped to the high HP turbo motor).

FYI, as a serial slow Class C car driver I really never have issues with traffic from the fast veteran teams...even when they are defending or trying to overcome a 1-lap differential at the end of the race.  We also tend to get compliments about our ability to "stay out of the way".  The most dangerous folks out there tend to fall into two categories:

Clueless:  We saw a slow E36 at Joliet just driving randomly on the track Saturday...The Dustbuster was faster in the straights AND the corners and could brake later but still there was a conga line of about 8 cars (including two class A vets) behind him at one point because no one wanted to risk a pass.  Any of the strategies listed above would have allowed everyone to get past him in one or two turns but there we were, waiting for long straight and hoping we had guessed right on which direction he would drift.  FYI, it was not the car as two hours later it was a mid-pack class B car driving consistently.

Egos:  It is humiliating getting pulled by a minivan on the straights or out braked by one into a corner but a low percentage pass to protect your manhood is not the right answer...wait for another turn because you are going to walk away from us in the correct corner.

Pigs, Tatas, Apocalyptic, Sheen, etc (Midwest)...those guys that are in contention don't usually suffer from either of these.

If there are more than two cars in your mirrors for more than two turns...give them a point by.

Re: (Unwritten) Rules of Lemons Racing

OnkelUdo wrote:

Duff now runs either the Electrica or a Mercedes 240 Diesel (swapped to the high HP turbo motor).

FYI, as a serial slow Class C car driver I really never have issues with traffic from the fast veteran teams...even when they are defending or trying to overcome a 1-lap differential at the end of the race.  We also tend to get compliments about our ability to "stay out of the way".  The most dangerous folks out there tend to fall into two categories:

Clueless:  We saw a slow E36 at Joliet just driving randomly on the track Saturday...The Dustbuster was faster in the straights AND the corners and could brake later but still there was a conga line of about 8 cars (including two class A vets) behind him at one point because no one wanted to risk a pass.  Any of the strategies listed above would have allowed everyone to get past him in one or two turns but there we were, waiting for long straight and hoping we had guessed right on which direction he would drift.  FYI, it was not the car as two hours later it was a mid-pack class B car driving consistently.

Egos:  It is humiliating getting pulled by a minivan on the straights or out braked by one into a corner but a low percentage pass to protect your manhood is not the right answer...wait for another turn because you are going to walk away from us in the correct corner.

Pigs, Tatas, Apocalyptic, Sheen, etc (Midwest)...those guys that are in contention don't usually suffer from either of these.

If there are more than two cars in your mirrors for more than two turns...give them a point by.

Oh yeah, the #240 240...You guys were great, predictable and consistent on track which was our goal as well...We were the #10 Hawaiian Tropic E36.

Butt Sweat & Beers.

Re: (Unwritten) Rules of Lemons Racing

Yep, we were in the big old white Mercedes. We were going to win C and retire it, but then our front guibo disintegrated and we spent all Saturday finding a replacement, so we may drive another race in it. The Electrica will probably not be back until next year, as we are still transmogrifying it into something that more closely resembles a race car. A lot of transmogrification is required, a whole lot.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: (Unwritten) Rules of Lemons Racing

OnkelUdo wrote:

We also tend to get compliments about our ability to "stay out of the way".

As I've said many times before, in our region (South), the Duff guys are the benchmark for "staying out of the way" as far as I'm concerned.  Nobody does it better.  They are able to maintain momentum, and yet still able to point me by so I don't lose mine.  I'm pretty sure their heads all have a swivel!

If there is ever a class on how to drive a slow car in Lemons, the Duff guys should be the instructors.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: (Unwritten) Rules of Lemons Racing

rmcdaniels wrote:

Yep, we were in the big old white Mercedes. We were going to win C and retire it, but then our front guibo disintegrated and we spent all Saturday finding a replacement, so we may drive another race in it. The Electrica will probably not be back until next year, as we are still transmogrifying it into something that more closely resembles a race car. A lot of transmogrification is required, a whole lot.

The big old white Mercedes needs V10 power. Im sure you could wedge it under that long hood and dominate.

Re: (Unwritten) Rules of Lemons Racing

I just thought of something:

If you get a point-by, do not feel obligated to pass immediately, especially if you do not think it is the best time, or if you are not certain you can get by easily and safely

I learned that by mistake: a car that was only slightly slower than me, that I was following, and waiting for a good time to pass, nicely gave me a point-by right before a tight turn, pointing me to the inside corner...so I tried to pass him/her but needed too much speed to get by, so I spun out and hit the guy (not hard)

MarioKart Driving School: 1987 Honda Prelude Opus #28  (still can't win anything...)

Re: (Unwritten) Rules of Lemons Racing

VKZ24 wrote:
VanillaHaze wrote:

I will agree that there is no room for blocking with two rare exceptions:

1. If you are racing with someone for position in the last hour of the race, and are both skilled drivers. If you don't understand blocking rules in major series', this isn't you.

If you (attempt) to block me for an hour, you'll likely get what the old NASCAR boys used to call the old "chrome horn".  For a lap or maybe two at the end of the race I might give you the benefit of the doubt, but more than that, you're being a d*ck, and it's easy for the guy being blocked to "move" you. 

Fortunately over the past 10 years in Lemons, I've never raced with anyone (yet) that was that big of an a$$, but I guess there's always tomorrow.

At the end of a race, it's a sprint for position. I don't mean crazy all over the track antics, but actual racing lines. I should add the third category that I block in because it is similar; if I know the driver I'm racing with is talented, likes battling it out, and is similar in speed. Brett gets no free passes from me. To me and most of the pointy end driver's that I've talked to, it's more fun to have to work for a pass, forcing the other guy's line in order to make it happen. It seems crazy to me to give up a good position to a black flag out of frustration, but I guess not everybody likes good old fashioned car to car battles.

Owner of the Knights Templar Neon
A&D of middling proportions

Re: (Unwritten) Rules of Lemons Racing

VanillaHaze wrote:

but I guess not everybody likes good old fashioned car to car battles.

I think most of us would have to not be multiple laps behind the car above us for that to matter.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata.

Re: (Unwritten) Rules of Lemons Racing

Don't slam on the brakes when you get a black flag.  Had someone do that to me this weekend.  Slam on the brakes and wave at the flagger.  Missed his bumper by inches.

Tom Lomino - Proud to be a 22x Lemons Loser, 3x Class B, and 1x IOE Winner!
Craptain, Team Farfrumwinnin - 1995 Volkswagen Golf #14
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