Thanks to the non-whining Texans (Page 2 of 3)

Being a small part of the enforcement team @ MSR I thought I had heard some stories.
Here are mine from this weekend.

#1 
Driver: I'm 99% sure I did not hit him. 
Me: Please explain to me the 1%.
#2
Driver: I slid to a stop in turn 1 but did not go 4 off and did not hit anyone!  So why the black flag?
Me: Here is some water, sit in the dog house and think about it.
#3
Driver: My mom has something to say to you!
Mom: My son was in 6th and left the penalty box in 23rd.
Me: Hi Mom, is your son here to win this race?
Mom: Yes, he always wants to win.
Driver: Facepalm
#4
Driver: I was not speeding in the pits! ! !
Me: Where is your speedo?
Driver: in a box in my pit! ! !  I use my Tach ! ! !
Me: Where is your Tach?
Driver: in the box with the Speedo but that's not what we are discussing here! ! !

SW Region / Judge Scott

I have some whining to add here!  With all of the racing and wrenching my panda team had to do, we couldn't walk around and witness the shenanigans.  We had a great time as always and I invite the judges/Lemons crew back for some more WalMart grilled sausages.  I think the weather and poor flagging station visibility had something to do with the large amount of racin' retardation.

I <3 Lemons.

Wait..what? Seriously?!

This, gentlemen, is irrefutable logic.

And don't call me Shirley.

how bout having mom write i will cut the umbilical cord now 200 times on the car or else they can't leave.

who the hell was that? LOL

2 Solutions:

1. Stay out of the gravel.
2. Better tow points: probably the better solution since at some you going to need to be towed when:

I think everyone starts with a great plan.  Some of them even might be.

The guys that finish well either keep it from going down the shitter longer or improvise better.

Regarding flagging.  It was okay.  We had some black flags that we did not earn but it was okay.  We got off easy for what we did get.

I am not sure how or why they decided not to use the Flag Station at the Diamonds Edge.

I swear I saw plenty of people pass under yellow in front of me too.

I'm a flagger and I agree. The flagging rules for Lemons are different than the races that we work any other race of the year, so you get some confusion in the flag stands. If you combine that with drivers that drive other types of racing during the year, now you have 2 sets of folks that are doing it differently than "normal". Last you have the first timers who aren't used to looking at flags anyway, and I think that for them, the rules are probably a little nebulous.

I'm working on a pair of guides for Lemons track communication - one for drivers and one for flaggers. In them, I also suggest augmenting the track set up with a pair of cones at each flag stand so that once and for all, there is NO QUESTION as to where the boundaries of authority lie for any particular flag stand. Along with the boundary cones, I'm going to suggest that the passing under yellow rule be changed to "You are under yellow from the time you pass the boundary cones for the station showing yellow UNTIL you pass the boundary cones of a station NOT showing yellow."

I think that with a clear marker on the track of boundaries, rather than an invisible line, that everyone will be on the same page. The "real race car drivers" will have to suck it up a little and deal with not being able to put the hammer back down as soon as they think they're in the clear, but the newbies will have an irrefutable point of reference on the track, and that's a good thing.

With clarified rules and boundaries, the judiciary can also feel free to ramp up the penalties. It's my guess that since the cops (flaggers) are working under a different set of rules than they're used to, there probably are some false arrests. If we can clean that up so that we're far more confident that everyone that gets set to the judge is guilty, then there's a chance of hearing a lot less bitching and whining in the box. True, we lose some of the banana republic law enforcement charm, but the judges are free to ratchet up their game to compensate for the fact that getting busted is now a much more clear cut affair.

OK, I've written a lot here, and I started out by agreeing with Troy. I should probably retreat until I have an offering, lest I get the duct tape too.

I've got nothing to say.....

As a driver and a former official I applaud the effort and agree that guides that increase understanding for the contestants and for the flaggers certainly can't hurt and would probably shorten if not eliminate a lot of argument.  However, I don't think the boundary cone thing is practical.  That's way too much for a driver to try to track and for a flagger to enforce.

It seems that officials tend to presume that the primary reason a driver misses a flag is because he saw it and ignored it.  If he didn't see it, then he is just a "crappy driver."  The truth is that most drivers miss flags because they are BUSY.  Busy trying to not get hit or trying not to hit someone else or lose control or go off the pavement or miss track out or the next apex or sliding on that puddle of oil or mud or hitting that curb or trying to pass that asshat that has been blocking him for two laps.  Adding checking a 18" tall boundary cone to the side of the track won't work.  Then there will be arguments over whether someone was passed it or not and judgments made by a corner worker that is long distance away from it.  Just put the line of sight rule in your guide along with "when in doubt, don't pass".  In these races waiting one more corner to make a pass isn't going to determine a winner and a loser anyway.

Honestly, as a newb driver, it makes more sense to me to have it as line of sight. If you can see a flag stand that you are sure there is no flag, game on. Cant see the next flag stand due to a portapot? Hold off on that pass until you can see that they absolutely do not have a flag out.

That is what I told my team, and it worked well for us. It makes us as drivers look at the flaggers first instead of passing (possibly under yellow) and then checking the flag stand.