1 Topic by Judge Jonny (edited by Judge Jonny 2010-02-22 04:23 PM)

  • From: Los Fucking Angeles
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 1,032

Topic: Clarification on "Frowned Upon" cars

Lots of "Whinetonium" has been bubbling to the surface lately about cars we "frown upon."

In point of fact there are no cars we frown at. However, certain cars attract a certain mentality of racer that we do frown upon.

Most (again, MOST, not all) E30s and Miatas show up with zero theme beyond shitty looking and dented. Their drivers almost inevitably have racing suits festooned with "SCCA Pro Series" and their blood type. They have zero sense of humor, never bribe us (remember, 90% of bribes are kicked back to corner workers, tech inspectors and teams that ask us for beer) and generally just don't get it.

Then, when it comes time to actually race, they behave terribly, never ever admit to the possibility that maybe they got the black flag because they deserved it and are just totally unfun. Honestly, it's really no fun for us to punish scowling, pissed off people. And when we have to deal with them and their angry eyes, we just send them off to go sit in the corner for thirty minutes just like the SCCA does.

Is this limited to just Miatas and E30s? Of course not, but there is an undeniable correlation.

To elaborate, some of our very favorite cars ever are the cars we supposedly frown upon. Rahul's pink pig E30, the legendary Porcubimmer and of course Eyesore's ghettocharged Miata. Rahul flies around the country to help other teams and has even Judged with us, the Porcubimmer is a fricking E30 that looks like a porcupine and what else is there to say about Eyesore? I mean, at the Phoenix race more people were watching them putting gas in the Miata than were watching the race (true, all the skirt-wearing ladies were bending over and tugging on torque wrenches, but still).

So, if you DO choose to bring a Miata/E30, don't be that group of guys that sucks the fun out of it for everyone, yourselves included.

A couple more points, if I may:

Remember, you actually get more money for winning the IOE than you do for winning the race. So the time-tested excuse of, "Well, we thought about a lot of cars but the E30 just gave us the best chancing of winning" has been taken off the table. You SHOULD be going for the IOE.

Finally, we do actually frown upon E36s. Get real, schmuckos.

"This is the scene where I get shot," Bronson said. "I have these little squibs that explode to make it look like bullets are hitting." "Fascinating," said Bergman. "I never knew how they did that." "You mean," asked Bronson, "you don't use machine guns in your movies?"

2 Reply by Judge Phil (edited by MurileeMartin 2010-02-22 05:18 PM)

  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 9,416

Re: Clarification on "Frowned Upon" cars

Also, all you racers contemplating Lemons because you're looking for the most seat time per racing dollar: cheap seat time is not what Lemons is supposed to be all about. Lemons might give you cheap seat time compared to whatever kind of "real" racing you do, but that's not why we do it.

We do Lemons because we are hoping, some day, to see a race with 150 Le Cars, Scorpions, Bradley GTs, Triumph Mayflowers, Eldorado Biarritzes, and Reattas, all piloted by drivers who manage to avoid bashing into each other.

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  • DaveH
  • DaveH
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  • From: Delaware
  • Registered: 2009-05-11
  • Posts: 264

Re: Clarification on "Frowned Upon" cars

I will say that cheap seat time is a factor.  Well... any seat time.  I can't afford 'real' racing at all, and Lemons gives me all the thrills of 'real' racing (see Dave vs. Buick) at a fraction of the cost and it involves interacting with significantly fewer dickheads.

I'd like to think that, while our team generally picks cars that should be competing for the overall win, its only because its more fun passing people than being passed.  We do have a couple of IOE contenders in the works, most notably the Craptation Regurgitation.  However, as serious as we are about making a car fast on the track, I think we enjoy the off-track stuff as much as the racing part.  I'd like to think we 'get it'.

Also, as far as the IOE goes, I never really seem to hear much about P71s being mentioned.  Are they just too common/not crappy enough for IOE contention?

Dave Heinig - Schumacher Taxi Service
coROLLa - 2 time loser, RWB MR2 - 5 time loser
The Craptation - IOE WINNER! Lemons South Spring 2010
Crown Vic - Please God Don't Ever Make Me Go Through That Again

DaveH's Website

  • Registered: 2009-06-20
  • Posts: 73

Re: Clarification on "Frowned Upon" cars

MurileeMartin wrote:

We do Lemons because we are hoping, some day, to see a race with 150 Le Cars, Scorpions, Bradley GTs, Triumph Mayflowers, Eldorado Biarritzes, and Reattas, all piloted by drivers who manage to avoid bashing into each other.

And on the 7th day, a Gremlin won IOE

  • Registered: 2009-10-25
  • Posts: 1,993

Re: Clarification on "Frowned Upon" cars

but but but.......all of us (not me of course as I don't have a real race license) racers really really want to spend $4k to win $1500 in NICKELS.....and get a hernia lugging it around... 

I don't want to win......I just want to finish the race with a running car.....that will take minimal work to prep for the next race....  my other goal is to AVOID THE PENALTY BOX....at all costs....if I can accomplish both of these at Sears I will be quite pleased.....

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2
  • Registered: 2009-06-20
  • Posts: 73

Re: Clarification on "Frowned Upon" cars

DaveH wrote:

I will say that cheap seat time is a factor.  Well... any seat time.  I can't afford 'real' racing at all, and Lemons gives me all the thrills of 'real' racing (see Dave vs. Buick) at a fraction of the cost and it involves interacting with significantly fewer dickheads.

I'd like to think that, while our team generally picks cars that should be competing for the overall win, its only because its more fun passing people than being passed.  We do have a couple of IOE contenders in the works, most notably the Craptation Regurgitation.  However, as serious as we are about making a car fast on the track, I think we enjoy the off-track stuff as much as the racing part.  I'd like to think we 'get it'.

Also, as far as the IOE goes, I never really seem to hear much about P71s being mentioned.  Are they just too common/not crappy enough for IOE contention?

i got 2 laps of "seat" time and while I won't speak for anyone else on my team, I had a frickin blast (minus the blistering headache saturday night) and learned a hell of alot about drum brakes (basically, get rid of them).  Am I mentally unbalanced and obsessed with "misfit" cars?  Well...YES!!

  • From: Arvada, CO
  • Registered: 2009-12-09
  • Posts: 201

Re: Clarification on "Frowned Upon" cars

MurileeMartin wrote:

We do Lemons because we are hoping, some day, to see a race with 150 Le Cars, Scorpions, Bradley GTs, Triumph Mayflowers, Eldorado Biarritzes, and Reattas, all piloted by drivers who manage to avoid bashing into each other.

Bradley GT, you say?  There's one right around the corner from my workplace.  Hmm....

IOE really is the "holy grail", as far as my NOOB eyes see it.  That said, even the hardcore IOE-seeker will want his car to be "fast" (that being a relative term).  Hence, motor swaps, ghettocharging, and other madness.

Geez, I sincerely hope I'm "getting it", and not just being a douche.  wink

If it ain't broken, fix it 'til it is.

Cadillac Bob's Website

  • DRC
  • Paddock Rat
  • Offline
  • From: Austin, TX
  • Registered: 2009-11-16
  • Posts: 31

Re: Clarification on "Frowned Upon" cars

new rule - cars must be 1988 or older.

  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 9,416

Re: Clarification on "Frowned Upon" cars

DaveH wrote:

Also, as far as the IOE goes, I never really seem to hear much about P71s being mentioned.  Are they just too common/not crappy enough for IOE contention?

P71s are way too reliable for IOE consideration.

However, pre-P71 Crown Vics certainly qualify.

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  • From: Arvada, CO
  • Registered: 2009-12-09
  • Posts: 201

Re: Clarification on "Frowned Upon" cars

DRC wrote:

new rule - cars must be 1988 or older.

+1

(but only because I'm a whacko)

If it ain't broken, fix it 'til it is.

Cadillac Bob's Website

  • JThw8
  • JThw8
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  • From: Mullica Hill, NJ
  • Registered: 2009-06-10
  • Posts: 1,781

Re: Clarification on "Frowned Upon" cars

gregtivo wrote:

Am I mentally unbalanced and obsessed with "misfit" cars?  Well...YES!!

Did someone say Misfits? 

LOL...I live for freak cars and mutants but no "real" race would have them.

Here I will finally get a chance to run a rear engined 1958 Wartburg and be treated just like every other freak on the track.  Sweeeet.

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

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  • From: Arvada, CO
  • Registered: 2009-12-09
  • Posts: 201

Re: Clarification on "Frowned Upon" cars

JThw8 wrote:
gregtivo wrote:

Am I mentally unbalanced and obsessed with "misfit" cars?  Well...YES!!

Did someone say Misfits? 

LOL...I live for freak cars and mutants but no "real" race would have them.

Here I will finally get a chance to run a rear engined 1958 Wartburg and be treated just like every other freak on the track.  Sweeeet.

I love you, and I want to have your babies.

If it ain't broken, fix it 'til it is.

Cadillac Bob's Website

  • From: Angier
  • Registered: 2009-09-19
  • Posts: 705

Re: Clarification on "Frowned Upon" cars

i really want to drive an E36.  but i will bide my time.  and to occupy our time for the rest of this decade at least, we are building a 1982 E28 528e.  costumes are already in the works.  smile

whatever it was i didn't do it
dorifto dogs E30 - gone but not forgotten

Lee Ho Fook's Racing E36
  • From: Spring, TX
  • Registered: 2009-10-25
  • Posts: 459

Re: Clarification on "Frowned Upon" cars

why do more people not do gbodys with nascar themes?

soooooo easy to make reliable with cheater dirt track parts if you're looking for "cheap seat time", and soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many easy themes!

Mike Peters
Former rotary brat pioneer.
3.17.08 Jalopnik Hoon of the day.  #hasbeen
1984 Dodge Rampage, A few SHO engines, a Mustang 8.8, and a lot of hot glue going on now.

mikespeed95's Website

  • From: Land Of Subarus, Colorado
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 9,416

Re: Clarification on "Frowned Upon" cars

mikespeed95 wrote:

why do more people not do gbodys with nascar themes?

G bodies? How about going back another decade or two for some real NASCAR machines?

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/1974-nascar-5.jpg
You can get Matadors dirt cheap!

http://image.mustangandfords.com/f/8990313/p63340_large+1972_NASCAR_Torino+Passenger_Side_View.jpg
Torinos too!

http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com/kits/images/CarJohan/johangc964-1964plymouthpetty.JPG
Or a Belvedere!

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16 Reply by mikespeed95 (edited by mikespeed95 2010-02-23 12:50 AM)

  • From: Spring, TX
  • Registered: 2009-10-25
  • Posts: 459

Re: Clarification on "Frowned Upon" cars

haha, that'd be the epitome of awesome, but the local craigslists are always floooooded with cheap gbodies, was trying to cater to the "i want to get track time with my reliable, but boring lemon" crowd, who normally seems to go mustang/e30/miata/rx7 with lame theme from what i see in tejas.

Mike Peters
Former rotary brat pioneer.
3.17.08 Jalopnik Hoon of the day.  #hasbeen
1984 Dodge Rampage, A few SHO engines, a Mustang 8.8, and a lot of hot glue going on now.

mikespeed95's Website

17 Reply by Jer

  • Jer
  • Jer
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
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  • From: West Chester, PA
  • Registered: 2009-05-04
  • Posts: 1,316

Re: Clarification on "Frowned Upon" cars

While we have a Miata in the stable, we also keep bringing back the coROLLa (six races) and hope to have the Citation back later in the year.  Pretty sure we get it, despite the shitty Miata in the mix.

Jer / Schumacher Taxi Service
2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)

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  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 287

Re: Clarification on "Frowned Upon" cars

soldmystang wrote:

we are building

Hahahahahaha, WE?

Fall South 09- 23rd place
Southern Discomfort '10 Magnum PU- 5th place
Spring South '10- 1st...... LOSER!

19 Reply by Scud.Ig (edited by Scud.Ig 2010-02-23 06:22 AM)

  • From: DFW Metromess
  • Registered: 2009-10-30
  • Posts: 279

Re: Clarification on "Frowned Upon" cars

So why not just exclude Miatas and E30s if they're a problem?  A quick edit of the rulebook and done.  Exceptions allowed on a per-case judge ruling.

Or perhaps the inverse of the ex-"Z=zero" rule?

  • From: Angier
  • Registered: 2009-09-19
  • Posts: 705

Re: Clarification on "Frowned Upon" cars

ecugrad wrote:
soldmystang wrote:

we are building

Hahahahahaha, WE?

careful now big guy, i was wrenching on your car the other day.  smile

whatever it was i didn't do it
dorifto dogs E30 - gone but not forgotten

Lee Ho Fook's Racing E36
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 287

Re: Clarification on "Frowned Upon" cars

soldmystang wrote:
ecugrad wrote:
soldmystang wrote:

we are building

Hahahahahaha, WE?

careful now big guy, i was wrenching on your car the other day.  smile

Watching and getting drinks for the guys doesn't count wink

Fall South 09- 23rd place
Southern Discomfort '10 Magnum PU- 5th place
Spring South '10- 1st...... LOSER!
  • From: Gilbertsville, PA
  • Registered: 2009-12-22
  • Posts: 3,252

Re: Clarification on "Frowned Upon" cars

Scud.Ig wrote:

So why not just exclude Miatas and E30s if they're a problem?  A quick edit of the rulebook and done.  Exceptions allowed on a per-case judge ruling.

Or perhaps the inverse of the ex-"Z=zero" rule?

Then you wouldn't know where the dickheads (or potential dickheads) are.

On a similar note, there's a 2002 that's been sitting in the woods for at least 5 years.  If I could somehow pry it loose from the owner for a few quid, would I be looked at as a potential dickhead?  Even w/ a 5.0 or SBC in it????

Silent But Deadly Racing-  Ricky Bobby's Laughing Clown Malt Liquor Thunderbird , Datsun 510, 87 Mustang (The Race Team Formerly Known as Prince), 72 Pinto Squire waggy, Parnelli Jones 67 Galaxie, Turbo Coupe Surf wagon.(The Surfin Bird), Squatting Dogs In Tracksuits,  Space Pants!  Roy Fuckin Kent and The tribute to a tribute to a tribute THUNDERBIRD/ SUNDAHBADOH!
  • Registered: 2009-12-09
  • Posts: 53

Re: Clarification on "Frowned Upon" cars

ecugrad wrote:
soldmystang wrote:
ecugrad wrote:

Hahahahahaha, WE?

careful now big guy, i was wrenching on your car the other day.  smile

Watching and getting drinks for the guys doesn't count wink

I thought that was one of the most important jobs on a race team??

250 GTO
  • From: DF-Dubya
  • Registered: 2009-08-19
  • Posts: 820

Re: Clarification on "Frowned Upon" cars

soldmystang wrote:

i really want to drive an E36.  but i will bide my time.

Trust me, a legit $500 e36 is not as fast as you think ...

Summer's Eve Racing - '09 Yee-Haw; '10 Gator-O-Rama, NorDal Hooptie, Yee-Haw; '11 Gator-O-Rama, NorDal Hooptie (Winner, Class A!)
TARP Racing - '11 Yee-Haw, Heaps; '12 Gator-O-Rama (Winner, Class C ... Looking for a Class B Win to Complete the Trifecta!), Heaps; '13 NorDal Hooptie, Gator-O-Rama
  • From: Angier
  • Registered: 2009-09-19
  • Posts: 705

Re: Clarification on "Frowned Upon" cars

YesIFit wrote:
soldmystang wrote:

i really want to drive an E36.  but i will bide my time.

Trust me, a legit $500 e36 is not as fast as you think ...

eventually, eventually...............

whatever it was i didn't do it
dorifto dogs E30 - gone but not forgotten

Lee Ho Fook's Racing E36