1 (edited by rmcdaniels 2018-10-23 10:19 AM)

Topic: Another Duff Beer Perilous/Pointless Odyssey!

In our interminable quest to make the Jet Electrica 007 less awful, I will once again be driving it to CMP for the Parade, although it will not be racing (this time). Last time it took me 14 hours to go 168 miles ( https://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/view … p?id=35546 ), so anything under 14 hours is a victory.

Here it is in its current trim:
http://www.carolinahondas.com/members/roger-albums-pj-picture6759-td4.jpg
http://www.carolinahondas.com/members/roger-albums-pj-picture6756-td1.jpg


A 12KW generator instead of 4KW, and mounted a few inches from where I sit instead of way out in the back:
http://www.carolinahondas.com/members/roger-albums-pj-picture6758-td3.jpg


And thousands of pounds of BMW batteries to replace the hundreds of pounds of Chevy batteries:
http://www.carolinahondas.com/members/roger-albums-pj-picture6754-swparky132.jpg


And the route:
http://www.carolinahondas.com/members/roger-albums-pj-picture6785-route1.jpg


I figure I can make it in one shot, and can not see any way in which this plan could possibly fail.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Another Duff Beer Perilous/Pointless Odyssey!

rmcdaniels wrote:

I figure I can make it in one shot, and can not see any way in which this plan could possibly fail.

You say what?

You do see the big yellow thing at the top of the page, right?

Re: Another Duff Beer Perilous/Pointless Odyssey!

That's for other teams who have bad ideas in the first place. All Duff Beer projects are good ideas. This one reeks of winning.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Another Duff Beer Perilous/Pointless Odyssey!

Hmmm ... is there a hybrid opportunity with the 12KW generator? If the batteries completely go offline can you go direct through an inverter to the electric motor? 12 KW can probably get you up a hill and the miles per gallon of gas might not be too bad.

Re: Another Duff Beer Perilous/Pointless Odyssey!

I like the cooling system.  Is that 12KW gen set quieter than the 4KW that was in the back?
I'm thinking the NHV may be a problem with that set up, being so much closer to you.

Re: Another Duff Beer Perilous/Pointless Odyssey!

The way the charger works, you really need the batteries, and 12KW is maybe enough to cruise at 60 MPH on level roads. Any uphill would need more. 12KW, even converted at 100% efficiency (and we're not at 100%), is still only 16 mechanical HP. So it's got about 60% of the HP of my Trabant 601, and it weighs more than twice as much. Around town in traffic, running it as a series hybrid, it can pretty much go until it runs out of gas, but at continuous speed I'm trying to get 200 miles out of it.

It is not a pleasant drive with the generator on, although I can go over 100 miles on just battery, and battery-only cruising is pretty peaceful. Eventually the engine and gen head will go under the hood, probably later this year after the racing is done. In the back of my mind is the idea that I should put a passenger seat in the car and take it on the rally in February, although I know that is a terrible idea.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Another Duff Beer Perilous/Pointless Odyssey!

Needs one of these https://i.ytimg.com/vi/UZeyZV1dqdY/maxresdefault.jpg

2010, 26th @ CMP, 2011, 10th & 5th at CMP, 2012? (MIA), 2013 Spring CMP, 53rd, 2013 Fall CMP 44th, 2014 Barber 14th, 2014 CMP 46th, 2015 CMP 57th, 2015 CMP 80th, 2016 CMP 16th, 3rd in B class, Winner Judges choice, and First car under 2.0 liter Alex's lemon aide stand winner. 2017 WRL, Road Atlanta 43rd, 2017 NCM 9th O/A , 1st in B class, 2018 CMP 13th O/A 3rd in Class B

Re: Another Duff Beer Perilous/Pointless Odyssey!

I drove it around for a bit today. With all of the weight over the rear axle, the car exhibits mind-numbing understeer until you brake a bit to transfer some weight to the front wheels and get it to turn, at which point it suddenly exhibits terrifying, bowel-loosening oversteer as the rear tries to come around. It is very exciting to drive.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Another Duff Beer Perilous/Pointless Odyssey!

I had a Corvair that drove like that, great fun in the snow. Put some bald tires on it and embrace the instability.

Re: Another Duff Beer Perilous/Pointless Odyssey!

I got it loaded up yesterday and will depart this morning after I get some new tires on the Duff Beer Mobile Oppression Palace so Ricky can drag the race car down later today.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Another Duff Beer Perilous/Pointless Odyssey!

Having driven it to Camden and back for the parade, Roger's assessment of it's steering ability is a gross understatement. With a 4:1 weigh rear bias, it's like driving a unicycle at triple digit speeds. It's manageable, but you have to be alert. When you touch the brakes and regen kicks on, it's going to pull in a random direction that you have to counter immediately and exactly. (it's torque steer. In reverse.)  I don't think I turned the wheel more than 2deg all the way to the staging area.

As for the new battery pack, those things are solid. 60 to 70 mph acceleration up a hill only took a few seconds (like 3) with only a ~2V sag. And that was about 50% of what that pack is capable of (amp-wise.)

The 12V power will last about 20min with the headlights on. :-) (the "charger" -- an HP G-series server power supply --  is connected to the generator) When the voltage drops too low, (a) the controller can't fully open the IGBT's compromising the ability to "go", and (b) when it's too low, the controller shuts down -- regen braking goes with it! (it's pretty hard to slow down with out regen)

Duff Beer Civic (#128) -- 2014 Sebring - Class B (#1 of 7), 2016 Barber - Class B
1981 Jet Electrica 007 [Plymouth Horizon TC3] (#128) -- Mk.1 - Index of Effluency Eco (IOEe) @ 2016 Lemons South Fall, Mk.2 - Judges' Choice @ 2017 'Shine Country Classic, Mk.3 - Index of Effluency @ 2017 Southern Discomfort

Re: Another Duff Beer Perilous/Pointless Odyssey!

After about 100 miles, I got used to the horrible weight distribution and it seemed much less scary. Even driving it in the wet wasn't that bad. I could even brake while turning after a while. It is weird how little steering input is required at speed; you barely move the wheel at all and it's turning.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Another Duff Beer Perilous/Pointless Odyssey!

Here's the story. I posted all of this on Facebook, but some of you troglodytes don't do that, so here you go:

Leaving the shop around noon:
http://www.carolinahondas.com/members/roger-albums-pj-picture6786-0071.jpg


I made it about 100 miles, was a bit overconfident about my range and started with a partially charged pack, then did about 30 miles with no generator, and had to stop roadside for 15-20 minutes before I could go on:
http://www.carolinahondas.com/members/roger-albums-pj-picture6787-0072.jpg


I got a few volts back in it and went and found a place to eat in Morven, NC where I could park it for a bit and let it charge:
http://www.carolinahondas.com/members/roger-albums-pj-picture6788-0073.jpg
http://www.carolinahondas.com/members/roger-albums-pj-picture6789-0074.jpg

I ended up spending an hour there. The Chinese food was okay, but the cheese steak was a pretty good sandwich. If you go to Mama Noi's, then eat the cheese steak:
http://www.carolinahondas.com/members/roger-albums-pj-picture6790-0075.jpg
http://www.carolinahondas.com/members/roger-albums-pj-picture6791-0076.jpg


I easily made it the remaining 49 miles to CMP after an hour charging in Morven and got in just before dark.


After the race, we crashed at the Holiday Inn Express in Camden and I got up and got on the road. I didn't quite have a full charge, but I ran the generator the whole way. It was wet and there was light rain, but that wasn't a problem:
http://www.carolinahondas.com/members/roger-albums-pj-picture6792-0077.jpg


I stopped at Mama Noi's for lunch. I could have gone farther, but it was lunch time and I was hungry, so I got a sandwich and made some calls (you can't talk on the phone in the car while the generator is running):
http://www.carolinahondas.com/members/roger-albums-pj-picture6793-0078.jpg


I stopped in Sanford to gas up the generator, make some calls, and take a break. I got a Blizzard at Dairy Queen and watched the locals gather to marvel and take pictures:
http://www.carolinahondas.com/members/roger-albums-pj-picture6794-0079.jpg


I made it the rest of the way to the shop and the battery just barely got under half charged. I'm learning to manage my speed and motor RPM better (it is more efficient at higher RPM), so I can go longer on the same charge. Eventually I'd like to be able to get 200 miles at a reasonable pace without an extended charging stop.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Another Duff Beer Perilous/Pointless Odyssey!

rmcdaniels wrote:

Here's the story. I posted all of this on Facebook, but some of you troglodytes don't do that, so here you go.

Damn you for making me Google your $5.00 word.  As a matter of fact, with a Lemons budget, you shouldn't even be allowed to use $5.00 words.  Besides, my wife is on FB enough for 10 people, so I don't need to concern myself with it.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Another Duff Beer Perilous/Pointless Odyssey!

It's about an electric car, so my words in this thread are budget-exempt. It's all in the rules.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Another Duff Beer Perilous/Pointless Odyssey!

So it's basically a 1:1 ratio, drive one hour, eat one hour, repeat.

'18 PNW-Organizer's Choice '17 PNW-IOE '15 PNW-Judge's Choice '14 PNW-Heroic Fix
Jagvair 2.0 Build   Jagvair YouTube  Jagvair Facebook

Re: Another Duff Beer Perilous/Pointless Odyssey!

Depends on traffic, I took back roads, so more like 2:1, but it's very much about over-eating while driving slowly, noisily, and uncomfortably to your destination.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Another Duff Beer Perilous/Pointless Odyssey!

What's the kWh rating of your shiny new BMW batteries?

Re: Another Duff Beer Perilous/Pointless Odyssey!

Ricky's the expert, so maybe he'll chime in, but I think these are 1st-gen batteries, so 60Ah cells in a string of 38 at 4v should give us about 9kWh per string with four strings for a total of 36kWh, with maybe 33kWh usable.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Another Duff Beer Perilous/Pointless Odyssey!

Still working on this?
I came across this: Using a car alternator as a motor to power a Go-Cart...
This seems like a great idea...(smart kid!)
But then again....what the hell do I know....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKqy3rRWJQE

MarioKart Driving School: 1987 Honda Prelude Opus #28  (still can't win anything...)

Re: Another Duff Beer Perilous/Pointless Odyssey!

It's about 4 hp. It would make for a good pit bike.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!