Topic: Is 4-wheel/all-wheel/x-drive/quattro thought to be an advantage?

... or is it really manufacturer/model/implementation specific?

2 (edited by Fishah 2019-01-20 09:46 PM)

Re: Is 4-wheel/all-wheel/x-drive/quattro thought to be an advantage?

I think most of us consider it to be a dis-advantage.

#928 Porsche 928 - West German Pushrodders

Re: Is 4-wheel/all-wheel/x-drive/quattro thought to be an advantage?

How many additional failure points does it add verses the same car in 2wd?

AWD can only help in road racing when traction is reduced...just like on the street...but since most of our cars do not have trouble putting the power down in a straight line, it would have to be an advanced AWD system that helps you get around a corner faster...not many of those in $500 cars.

Like AWD in the urban jungle, lots of people think they need it when all they really need is the right tires.

Re: Is 4-wheel/all-wheel/x-drive/quattro thought to be an advantage?

How many AWD cars have won in their respective classes?

Tunachuckers: 10 Years of Sucking at Sucking
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2010-present:  1975 Ford LTD Landau...doesn't have a name?
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Re: Is 4-wheel/all-wheel/x-drive/quattro thought to be an advantage?

Depends on how you look at it. Yes, AWD will help in wet races, and it will help put power down coming out of corners compared to many open diff 2wd cars. In that regard it's an advantage. However, it adds more complexity and failure points.

Subarus already have reliability issues in Lemons.

Audis are expensive and complicated to fix, however the east coast has seen an older quatro win overall

BMW AWD is considered overly complicated for limited added benefit.

3PM ran an AWD honda wagovan for a while that was fast, but their FWD replacement honda has proven even faster with all the added improvements.

I'm a big AWD fan, I've owned two WRX now, and winter is just that much more fun with center axis donuts. But in racing I think the advantages are a lot less that you'd think.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Turbo Dodge Powered E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Is 4-wheel/all-wheel/x-drive/quattro thought to be an advantage?

mechimike wrote:

How many AWD cars have won in their respective classes?

the Quantum won C & B (and probably could win A in the hands of the right drivers)

"THE WONDERMENT CONSORTIUM"
Nothing's for certain, it could always go wrong. Come in when it's raining, go on out when it's gone.

Re: Is 4-wheel/all-wheel/x-drive/quattro thought to be an advantage?

It will help in the wet as stated, but more important in the wet are proper tires, wipers and a goddamn defroster. We have a sorta powerful, open diff V6 MR2 and other than coming out of turn 3 at Gingerman we never wheelspin in the dry.

Re: Is 4-wheel/all-wheel/x-drive/quattro thought to be an advantage?

Blue goose has done very well in their Quattro

Re: Is 4-wheel/all-wheel/x-drive/quattro thought to be an advantage?

So hypothetically, all else being equal:

1. If you have two prospective teammates, each of whom could buy a relative's 'extra' older BMW 3-series, each around 275k(+/-), which were going to transition from spare vehicle to 'there's too much to fix, and I have another car already, so: next owner, please, for a pittance' [kind of like my Volvo - which I'm scrapping this week, though I'm not selling to a relative, and it's not in the mix], if one were x-drive, and one rwd, you would prefer to build the rwd for the team?

2. Similar Honda situation, just the 'other-wheel-drive' scenario and different models [though the in-house tow dolly weighs heavy in this one, because fwd]?

Personally, I'm still pushing for either my CelicaGT or SC400 as the donation to the team. Though, in the near term I'm going to work on getting the SC inspected here in PA, and there's plenty of budget room under the $500 build limit for those repairs.

Re: Is 4-wheel/all-wheel/x-drive/quattro thought to be an advantage?

Definitely stay far away from BMW x-Drive. Not just for reliability, but the suspension is taller and lamer.

Why in all hell Wouldn't you be setting up the Lexus Secret V8 Supra as your race car? Just start on the thing. The more it looks like a "Race Car" the easier it is to get perspective team mates to hold the puppy.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata.

Re: Is 4-wheel/all-wheel/x-drive/quattro thought to be an advantage?

Because:
1. Clean title [!], and for a little while I need a newer daily driver.
2. NICE aftermarket sound system, which I would have to remove, and either sell or put into another car.
3. Auto tranny.
4. Going with new generic OEM-level KYB front shocks.
5. It's a Lexus, and deserves to be treated as such!
6. I would love driving it on the Schuylkill expressway and Roosevelt Boulevard at rush hour after I get it inspected.
;-)
Alt:
1. Because I already stripped the CelicaGT's interior [except dash, upper hard plastic trim, and headliner], and the toxic, putrid smell is finally dissipating [hence, some of the reluctance of potential teammates, and their search for alternatives].

Full strength bleach will take care of almost all of the rest of the smell, though. And: open-air racecar, even though I'm planning on leaving the defroster functional, it shouldn't be a problem, right?

The SC sat for the last three months, and when I went to start it yesterday, the key wouldn't turn the ignition cylinder [and the steering wheel _isn't_ locked]. That's a problem, apparently, with Lexuses [Lexi?], and I have to fix that to drive it. I know, a push-button starter on a racecar fixes that just fine....

Re: Is 4-wheel/all-wheel/x-drive/quattro thought to be an advantage?

5 is the worst reason ever.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata.

Re: Is 4-wheel/all-wheel/x-drive/quattro thought to be an advantage?

Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:

Because:
[edited]...
5. It's a Lexus, and deserves to be treated as such!
[edited]...
;-)
[edited]

Guildenstern wrote:

5 is the worst reason ever.

... ;-) I was wondering which would get a reaction ...

And to clarify: for me, a Lexus is a Toyota with an upscale interior and a higher cost of ownership.

... also: a better breakfast buffet and waiting room at the dealer while you're waiting for them to cut a key ...

But it's still a Toyota, and they seem to last forever

Re: Is 4-wheel/all-wheel/x-drive/quattro thought to be an advantage?

We run a 2000 Audi TT AWD  and it has been a lot of work and cost but done right its a dream on dry and wet tracks !
We ran the TDI high powered Beetle front wheel drive for many years was fun but the TT AWD will out handle it every where!

Re: Is 4-wheel/all-wheel/x-drive/quattro thought to be an advantage?

Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:
Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:

Because:
[edited]...
5. It's a Lexus, and deserves to be treated as such!
[edited]...
;-)
[edited]

Guildenstern wrote:

5 is the worst reason ever.

... ;-) I was wondering which would get a reaction ...

And to clarify: for me, a Lexus is a Toyota with an upscale interior and a higher cost of ownership.

... also: a better breakfast buffet and waiting room at the dealer while you're waiting for them to cut a key ...

But it's still a Toyota, and they seem to last forever

Don't forget a standard tape deck well into the late 2000's!!

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata.

Re: Is 4-wheel/all-wheel/x-drive/quattro thought to be an advantage?

Guildenstern wrote:

Don't forget a standard tape deck well into the late 2000's!!

YES!!! Perfect equipment to play: "Ritt der Walküren" during a race!

17 (edited by Lemon_Newton-Metre 2019-04-01 04:29 PM)

Re: Is 4-wheel/all-wheel/x-drive/quattro thought to be an advantage?

DRVOLKS wrote:

[edited]
We ran the TDI high powered Beetle front wheel drive for many years was fun but the TT AWD will out handle it every where!

You got a TDI fwd drivetrain into a Beetle? Wow, that's impres.... hold on ... Ohhhh, a _New_ Beetle; I got it.

Warning: Thread drift ahead>
A few years ago, I was walking to a Wal-Mart entrance from the far back of the parking lot, and a mom & tweenage girl walked up to the back of their New Beetle and popped the rear panel right when I was two steps away and could see into the back. I stopped short and said, "Oh, my God - what happened to your engine?"
The mom, who _might_ have been 40, stopped and thought for a few seconds, and said, "Ha. Funny." and then kept loading.
I kept walking, and when I was about 40 feet away and could barely hear, the girl asked her mom, "What does he mean, what happened to the engine?"

"If you're going to do comedy, you've got to know your audience..."

Now, a fwd tdi. _'72 Beetle_ ... that would be something, wouldn't it?

Thanks for the differing viewpoints - there's always something unusual and interesting going on here. I always learn things.

Re: Is 4-wheel/all-wheel/x-drive/quattro thought to be an advantage?

I believe an X-Type has won C class out west also.  In my X-Type we have not gotten close.  We start and and almost always finish but that middle part of the race is usually left incomplete.  We have no wheel spin, but I prefer both of our other cars one is RWD (way more fun) and the other is FWD (easy to drive, faster, and lighter).

Team Glue Sticks
00 Firebird, 02 X-Type, 93 NX2000, 00 Mazda 626 (Sold)
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Re: Is 4-wheel/all-wheel/x-drive/quattro thought to be an advantage?

Just bought a Quattro so I hope it’s an advantage

Re: Is 4-wheel/all-wheel/x-drive/quattro thought to be an advantage?

Generally speaking, AWD mostly just adds weight and additional things to break/go wrong.

Also, early 1990s RWD Lexus street cars are awesome and also owned at least 70 percent by felons. So they're all awesome Lemons cars.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com