Topic: Rally Logistics Questions

I'm looking at doing the Kershaw-Key West rally and have some questions.

In a 375-mile day, how long do you usually drive at a stretch? How many stops do you make and how long do they last? I've got a car that likes short low-speed drives with lots of time to rest and recharge, not hours-long stretches of highway speeds. Ideally I'd prefer not to get on an interstate, as I don't really want to go over 55 MPH, preferably slower. I can go 100+ if I need to, but not for very long. 50 MPH is about my sweet spot, faster than that will require extended breaks. Can someone post a sample route book so I can see what a day is like?

Is there any time limit on the day? If it takes me 20 hours to get to the day-end location, is that okay? If I stop mid-day, set up a cot, and take a nice siesta, then can I still reasonably do this? How about if I also take a nice after-dinner nap?

That's it for now, although there will probably be more questions as I formulate my terrible plan.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Rally Logistics Questions

I will say it first.  You are beyond insane for considering this.

Re: Rally Logistics Questions

Actually you are fourth, my three teammates beat you to it.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

4 (edited by Guildenstern 2019-02-12 08:16 PM)

Re: Rally Logistics Questions

the LemonsRally instagram has the daily scavenger hunt pages posted for the day. Have a look there. You make a lot of stops, and drive indirect routes. You're going all day mostly.

I went well into after midnight on RT-66 day 2 before I cut my losses and ran for the hotel when it was clear I Mathematically couldn't improve my standing.

It's a Scavenger hunt rally. there is no Route book. If you wan't lots of points you stop more, if you don't you just drive. I mean just look at the sorry ass performance Regular Car Reviews put in, and they still had what approximates to fun for sheltered dingbats like Brian.

Part of the "challenge" is making your route to hit the checkpoints you want to hit.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Rally Logistics Questions

Thanks, that helps a lot, and now I have an Instagram account.

So I can make any route I want and stop whenever I want to. I can not see any way in which to fail at this.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Rally Logistics Questions

Well I'm willing to bet once you get past miami you won't have many route choices.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Rally Logistics Questions

Damn it man.  I was hoping to run the first EV on a Lemons rally later this year...

You are certifiable to try it in your monstrosity.  I can't encourage you enough.

Apparently my name is really "Craigers".  Who knew?
We might be yellow, but at least we are slow
I'm a WINNER!

Re: Rally Logistics Questions

but if you even attempt what you are considering, You will get so many points at the start that you could win with no stops at point locations.

88 Festiva  -  Damn Tree!!!
"We Are Not Really From Iran" Festiva  -  Motor and Trans to be anounced

Re: Rally Logistics Questions

Does it have a better muffler yet?

Re: Rally Logistics Questions

It will. The whole mess, including the generator, is currently in pieces all over the garage as I make room for a passenger, relocate the controller/charger/cables, figure out a better/less-blow-uppy solution for 12v, get the gen set mounted under the hood and figure out cooling for the electrical components.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Rally Logistics Questions

solman244 wrote:

Damn it man.  I was hoping to run the first EV on a Lemons rally later this year...

You are certifiable to try it in your monstrosity.  I can't encourage you enough.

You know, we probably will need one more person. Only Ricky has volunteered so far; Robert and Charles are probably wisely steering well clear of this hopeless endeavor.

I figure 375 miles/day will be a 16-hour day at least, and if it even makes it to Key West, then it definitely isn't going to be driving home in time to get me and Ricky to work on Monday, so I'm going to need someone (who must be willing to answer to "Snowman") to drive the tow rig (nice late model pickup with a trailer) to Key West to collect us at the end (or to collect us in the middle after it blows up). That person could probably talk us in to letting them drive and/or navigate a stretch or two in the Electrica if they get tired of riding in a comfortable climate-controlled safe vehicle and want to pilot a poorly conceived/built ridiculously hypertrophied golf cart with a LOT of understeer followed by a LOT of snap-oversteer.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Rally Logistics Questions

the time honored method of  "finishing" is to sell the car to a junkyard at the destination or wherever it dies before then, and take a Greyhound bus home. Or if you have some strange psychotic attachment to the pile, rent a U haul box truck and trailer to haul the remains home.

Driving something janky that can recharge in 5 minutes at a gas station, still makes some of  the drives last well into the night. You'll see just how fast time goes buy, when you're having that much fun!

I hope you make it

I Survived Hell on Wheels, Car Weeeak, and Route Sucky Suck

Re: Rally Logistics Questions

squirrel wrote:

Or if you have some strange psychotic attachment to the pile,

Yes, that, big-time!

Aside from the fun of it, this is part of our development plan to get it ready to race as a hybrid, since it already dominated the racing world as an EV, and after we dominate as a hybrid it will get torn down again and rebuilt as a filthy smog-belching diesel, whereupon it will dominate even more. Kind of a reverse-evolution of automotive technology. It was Jay's idea, so if it's stupid, then give him the credit.

I do not have high hopes that we will finish this with the car under it's own power. There is a lot of stuff to go wrong and this is a really bad car. If I get even one 300+ mile day out of it, then I will award myself the Rally win. For two, I will award myself the Vince Lombardi Trophy, for three, an olympic gold medal for figure skating, for four, the 2019 Formula 1 championships (driver and constructor), and if it makes it to the end, then I will award myself the Nobel Prize for Literature.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Rally Logistics Questions

French or English lit?

I Survived Hell on Wheels, Car Weeeak, and Route Sucky Suck

15 (edited by rmcdaniels 2019-02-24 11:08 AM)

Re: Rally Logistics Questions

So, driving home from VIR today on back roads at about 40-50MPH, including a stop to pick up some food for lunch, I averaged 31 MPH. If I can average 30MPH for a trip like this in the Electrica, then this might work.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Rally Logistics Questions

We will be cheering you on!

I Survived Hell on Wheels, Car Weeeak, and Route Sucky Suck

Re: Rally Logistics Questions

You are a better man than I am, Gunga Din

Silent But Deadly Racing- Chief cook and bottle washer, Former Flyin Turd Race Team Captain 
Ricky Bobby's Laughing Clown Malt Liquor Thunderbird Turbo Coupe, Datsun 510, 87 Mustang (The Race Team Formerly Known as Prince), 72 Pinto Squire waggy, Parnelli Jones 67 Galaxie, Turbo Coupe Surf wagon.  (The Surfin Bird)
Besmirching race tracks in the Eastern US since 2001

Re: Rally Logistics Questions

I think this was the push that I needed to get some planned work done to the car. It's really coming along nicely. I'm continuing to document the work in the original build thread if anyone wants to see:

https://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/view … p?id=33794


Ricky and I are signed up and paid for, but we are currently looking for a third driver if anyone wants to take part in this. I can almost guarantee that it will be a long week and that we will fail miserably, but if anyone is up for some misery and failure, then let me know.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Rally Logistics Questions

To demonstrate the capabilities of electric cars, the first ever cross country trip in an electric car was made by Arizona Public Service in a MARS II Electric Car built by Electric Fuel Propulsion Inc. of Detroit, Michigan. The trip started in Detroit on September 20, 1967, and ended in Phoenix on October 5, 1967, with 37 stops along the way for fast charging of the car’s lead cobalt batteries. Arizona Public Service purchased the MARS II and a 50-kW fast charger built by Electric Fuel Propulsion Inc. for this historic 2,226-mile trip.

http://www.carolinahondas.com/members/roger-albums-pj-picture6815-marsii.jpg


So this has been done before, and in a Renault 10 EV conversion, which bodes well for our similar French-derived Simca Horizon-based effort. I'm guessing that they had to take a picture of the car with a stuffed animal at each of the 37 stops and mail it somewhere in order to get credit for making the trip. I like the 50kw charger following them, I really should wire this thing up to use commercial charging stations.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Rally Logistics Questions

rmcdaniels wrote:

I can not see any way in which to fail at this.

You poor, blind, fool.

Robert plus the Electrica in proximity to the Everglades... ah, no.

squirrel wrote:

the time honored method of  "finishing" is to sell the car to a junkyard at the destination...

So, we should drive it back to the storage yard in Miami where I bought the batteries and sell them back! (being Little Cuba, that might be a bad idea in a car with no key)

Duff Beer Civic (#128) -- 2014 Sebring - Class B (#1 of 7), 2016 Barber - Class B
1981 Jet Electrica 007 [Plymouth Horizon TC3] (#128) -- Mk.1 - Index of Effluency Eco (IOEe) @ 2016 Lemons South Fall, Mk.2 - Judges' Choice @ 2017 'Shine Country Classic, Mk.3 - Index of Effluency @ 2017 Southern Discomfort

Re: Rally Logistics Questions

Looking at route planning this, it's nowhere near as long as they say it is, not even 1100 miles total.

Here's what I get mapping out the route for the rally with no interstate driving:

CMP to Myrtle Beach - 128 miles (estimated 325)
They must have a lot of side trips in this segment. If we can grab some points along the way, then great, but we can do 128 miles easily.

Myrtle Beach to Jacksonville - 348 miles (estimated 375)
We could check in at Myrtle Beach to get our points for finishing the day, then get a head start and drive to Charleston (about 100 miles), making the Jacksonville trip more manageable, so less than 250 miles/day. I don't know if we can physically do 348 miles in a day, and even if we did, then it would not be a happy day. The rules say they have daily start points, but I don't know what that means. Maybe if we start at 3:00 AM on long days that will work. If there is an actual timed start, then Tuesday could be problematic.

Jacksonville to Tampa - 200 miles (estimated 375)

Tampa to Homestead - 271 miles (estimated 300)
If we check in at Tampa, then go another 40-50 miles to Bradenton/Sarasota to crash, which is a real easy drive after rush hour, then we again break this up to less than 250 miles/day. Again, have to get clarification on daily starts.

Homestead to Key West - 127 miles (estimated 127)

That's only 1074 miles total, so about 220 miles/day average, with no day over 250 if we tack on a few miles after dinner on Monday and Wednesday.

I did 178 miles from the Holiday Inn Express in Camden to the shop in Raleigh and I didn't start with a full charge. I made two stops and was at the shop well before dark. Add another 70 miles and that's a long day, but doable. If we get on the road early, then I think that 250 miles is possible, provided that nothing blows up or falls apart. Stick to back roads, drive slow, make frequent stops to charge, and there is no way that this can possibly fail.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Rally Logistics Questions

rmcdaniels wrote:

Looking at route planning this, it's nowhere near as long as they say it is... They must have a lot of side trips...

If it's anything like the two rallies I've done, then yes, assume the route (or, for some days, each choice among incompatible routes) is significantly longer than any reasonable way of getting from the start to the finish would be. There's nothing that says you need to stick to those routes, though. Some teams have racked up significant points for wandering off and doing whatever they wanted, especially if the results made for a good story.

rmcdaniels wrote:

The rules say they have daily start points, but I don't know what that means... If there is an actual timed start, then Tuesday could be problematic.

Again, if it's like earlier rallies, the starting points and times are completely unenforced suggestions. It's quite possible to go for days without seeing anyone from HQ, or indeed without seeing most of the other competitors. Socializing at each destination is a big plus but sometimes it just isn't in the cards if, for example, one's days run several hours late and one's mornings are devoted to repairs.

There may end up being something like one checkpoint per day for which timing does matter for full credit, as someone from HQ will be there for a fixed period. I've consistently missed those...

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'Lemons
1978 H Special: Second-Round Elimination 2010 Lemons Pinewood Derby at Sears Pointless
1967 SAAB 96: IOE 2012 Pacific Northworst GP

Re: Rally Logistics Questions

Thanks, I saw something about "finishing the day" in the rules, so I didn't know if there was any kind of muster at any point. If we can go full Kwai Chang Caine and just roam the Earth and meet people and have adventures 'til God puts us where he wants us to be, then that is a lot more likely to be compatible with how this is probably going to go for us.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Rally Logistics Questions

rmcdaniels wrote:

... and have adventures 'til God puts us where he wants us to be...

https://youtu.be/LBbk1ebJLsM?t=7

Duff Beer Civic (#128) -- 2014 Sebring - Class B (#1 of 7), 2016 Barber - Class B
1981 Jet Electrica 007 [Plymouth Horizon TC3] (#128) -- Mk.1 - Index of Effluency Eco (IOEe) @ 2016 Lemons South Fall, Mk.2 - Judges' Choice @ 2017 'Shine Country Classic, Mk.3 - Index of Effluency @ 2017 Southern Discomfort

25 (edited by mharrell 2019-03-12 07:56 PM)

Re: Rally Logistics Questions

"Finishing the day" is mostly an excuse to lure everyone to a location that, curiously, tends to be of the sort that serves food and a variety of beverages to a fairly late hour. Someone will hang out greeting new arrivals until, oh, 11:00 or midnight, depending on how tired everyone is at that point, but if you roll into town at 3:00 AM after most people have gone to bed, then document your desolate arrival with an appropriately poignant photo, I doubt they'll hold your tardiness against you (speaking from experience).

Edit: I should add that getting to the starting line on time for the first day is important. If you miss that, you'll need to find a way to catch up with HQ to show them your license, registration, insurance, and mascot before you will be allowed to participate in the rally (again, speaking from experience).

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'Lemons
1978 H Special: Second-Round Elimination 2010 Lemons Pinewood Derby at Sears Pointless
1967 SAAB 96: IOE 2012 Pacific Northworst GP