The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Tech → Lowest HP/displacement Lemons cars! How well did they do?
List me some potential record holders here. Low 2-digit horsepower ratings, sub-liter displacement, the works. Did any of those cars do OK enough to compete for Class C? How slow was slow enough to get kicked off the track? What's the lightest Lemons car to ever compete that'd still pass tech today?
The old 3pm Rolls Royce was asked nicely to stop racing unless they could get the speeds higher. I thought they were given a target but I don't recall what it was. Spank has fielded some small cars so hopefully he will chime in.
Festivas have run with 53 at the crank. 1700 lbs from the factory.
Team bean ran a 62 mini with 998cc engine at Buttonwillow and finished 55 out of 95
Our 84hp Scorpion probably weighs right around 2000lbs or just under and is extremely uncompetitive, even in Class C.
The infamous 411 probably had >70 HP when we ran at ButtonWillow.....Just enough to get out of it's own way(barely)
" How slow was slow enough to get kicked off the track?" ...
Hard to say.....We were on the verge of oiling down the track when they (politely) asked us not to go back out....
But.....It was enough to get the IOE 
There have been some Honda 600s, think they were quite fast.
The Imp was 39HP new and time wasnt kind to it. Anton was flat around Thunderhill for all but one corner. Too slow to compete for anything other than IOE but was a 1 stop/day car for fuel. If I had to guess, either Spank's mini or the MetroGnome would have been the lightest out west. Moke has a bunch of extra structure underneath it.
998 cc mini when it was naturally aspirated it put out 57hp peak. Stock is 36-42hp, depending on year of the motor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZL_ZpLGi8c
After that dyno session, it won class C in 2010 in Sonoma being driven by some pretty skilled vintage racers who probably have more laps in a classic mini on that track than i have laps in ANY Lemons car on all tracks over the last 10 years combined.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVLJblRZNLE
I can only guess on weight, but I'd put it at around 1200-lbs
It's performed better in other races, including another Class C win, but that was with a 1275cc motor. Same for the moke-- it has always run a 1275cc motor as has the Austin America and MG Metro
The Dacia was definitely less hp but it was 1100cc.
I believe the metrognome was a 1000RR motor and won the overall.
There have been plenty of Geo Metros in Lemons which have the 1.0L option and a few have won C before. Just not sure if that was with the 1.0 motor or 1.3.
I totally read this thread title as lowest HP per displacement and thought you were asking about old giant motors that made no power.
Carry on.
I totally read this thread title as lowest HP per displacement and thought you were asking about old giant motors that made no power.
If so, one of the flatheads would likely win...300 cu in and 95 hp in our case.
I totally read this thread title as lowest HP per displacement and thought you were asking about old giant motors that made no power.
Carry on.
Well, I can contribute to that too.
aaaaand I have a video for that, as well 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhJhTFPVeT8
Corvegge was dyno'd at Thunderhill at 77hp and it is an Oldsmobile 350 which makes it 0.22hp per cubic inch versus 0.95hp per cubic inch for the 998cc mini (and 0.655 hp per cubic inch for the Imp)
Our Miata was something like 1500lbs race weight, had 698cc, and made 140hp. We probably could have won over-all if we'd stuck with it. Best finish was (I think) 6th at Sears Point. It was a hoot.
Back in the earlier days, the Italian Stallions ran a Fiat 600 powered buy a Moto Guzzi V twin. It probably weighed under 1200 pounds.
The Freewheelin' Pikers '67 Saab 96 had a 850cc engine. They won IOE with it.
Zero Budget Racing won class C with their 51 horsepower diesel Chevette in 2013.
The Freewheelin' Pikers '67 Saab 96 had a 850cc engine. They won IOE with it.
We had the original triple-carb 850 (46 hp) when we won IOE, which was also the race in which the engine destroyed its middle piston and cylinder. We were still able to finish on two cylinders and drive the car about 100 miles home afterwards. The replacement engine was the slightly older single-carb version of the 850 (44 hp), which then came apart quite catastrophically at Thunderhill. I've recently put another triple-carb 850 in it.
I think this may be the smallest original-equipment engine to run in the series so far, although it's not entirely reasonable to compare a two-stroke with a four-stroke simply in terms of absolute displacement. The four-stroke 875 in the Imp arguably is therefore effectively smaller.
Maverick74 wrote:The Freewheelin' Pikers '67 Saab 96 had a 850cc engine. They won IOE with it.
We had the original triple-carb 850 (46 hp) when we won IOE, which was also the race in which the engine destroyed its middle piston and cylinder. We were still able to finish on two cylinders and drive the car about 100 miles home afterwards. The replacement engine was the slightly older single-carb version of the 850 (44 hp), which then came apart quite catastrophically at Thunderhill. I've recently put another triple-carb 850 in it.
I think this may be the smallest original-equipment engine to run in the series so far, although it's not entirely reasonable to compare a two-stroke with a four-stroke simply in terms of absolute displacement. The four-stroke 875 in the Imp arguably is therefore effectively smaller.
Thought I saw the middle hole with a holed piston @ PBIR
Our Geo Metro 3-cyl was rated at 55HP. Had 3 class C wins, an IOE and an 8th overall. Don’t lift... brakes are for sissies.
Thought I saw the middle hole with a holed piston @ PBIR
That's the other SAAB 96. It's a V4 car that was given a two-stroke engine swap, then subsequently converted (more than once, I think?) to a non-SAAB engine entirely. I understand it is now retired from Lemons, whereas mine is technically just on an extended leave of absence.
Team Infinniti wrote:Thought I saw the middle hole with a holed piston @ PBIR
That's the other SAAB 96. It's a V4 car that was given a two-stroke engine swap, then subsequently converted (more than once, I think?) to a non-SAAB engine entirely. I understand it is now retired from Lemons, whereas mine is technically just on an extended leave of absence.
To quote a team member, "because technically is the best kind of correct."
TheEngineer wrote:I totally read this thread title as lowest HP per displacement and thought you were asking about old giant motors that made no power.
If so, one of the flatheads would likely win...300 cu in and 95 hp in our case.
That's a big six! The straight-8 in the Olds is 257 cid with 115 advertised HP.
If Zero Budget's diesel Chevette had 51 horsepower, the old Nixon Escort had 250. At best, that thing had about 30 real-world horses-powers.
OnkelUdo wrote:TheEngineer wrote:I totally read this thread title as lowest HP per displacement and thought you were asking about old giant motors that made no power.
If so, one of the flatheads would likely win...300 cu in and 95 hp in our case.
That's a big six! The straight-8 in the Olds is 257 cid with 115 advertised HP.
It was actually a 265 but bored over a 273.
OnkelUdo wrote:TheEngineer wrote:I totally read this thread title as lowest HP per displacement and thought you were asking about old giant motors that made no power.
If so, one of the flatheads would likely win...300 cu in and 95 hp in our case.
That's a big six! The straight-8 in the Olds is 257 cid with 115 advertised HP.
It was actually a 265 but bored over at about 273.
I think there was an 90's Tercel with some 2 digit HP engine that came in like 10th overall.
Didn't Duff Beer's 68HP W123 win Class C?
Regardless, I think we're seeing a theme...weight/power ratios of about 30lb/HP are about the bare minimum needed to be in contention for even C class. And that's assuming you have a top flight roster of drivers, and rigorous planning/logistics
If Zero Budget's diesel Chevette had 51 horsepower, the old Nixon Escort had 250. At best, that thing had about 30 real-world horses-powers.
I did my first few Lemons races in that car - we were doing about 60mph down the straights at Autobahn and Gingerman. Best lap times were set under full course yellows because you could finally drive the racing line and were already running at FCY pace. Definitely a "pick a side of the track and stay there" kind of car until everyone starts breaking on Saturday afternoon!
We won Class B @ Road America in our Festiva.... That thing was probably pushing 100hp on a cold day.
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