Topic: How to Pass?
While I've done a few races now, I need to learn how to pass. Ran across this video, lots to see here.
What do you think? This track seems to be pretty wide.
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While I've done a few races now, I need to learn how to pass. Ran across this video, lots to see here.
What do you think? This track seems to be pretty wide.
Umm... not sure what you are asking. I've been passed a lot in my Lemons "career." Most of that looked fine.
These endurance races have lots of opportunity if you are fast. Watch the traffic and pick the faster "lane."
If you aren't fast, advice on an internet forum is unlikely to make you so regardless of how fast your car could be.
That said, that looks like a good driver in a fast car. It looks to me that he is on the brakes later, and on the gas earlier, and doesn't hit anybody. The driver passed a lot of people because that car was fast, the driver passed a lot of people because they were slow drivers (as evidenced by the times when a drag race wasn't sufficient to execute the pass) in equally fast cars. "The Line" isn't always the fastest line in traffic.
If you want to get fast like that, you probably should have started competitive karting when you were 4.
While I've done a few races now, I need to learn how to pass. Ran across this video, lots to see here.
What do you think? This track seems to be pretty wide.
From the video Description:
"The car is an BMW E30"
Says it all.
nimblemotorsports wrote:While I've done a few races now, I need to learn how to pass. Ran across this video, lots to see here.
What do you think? This track seems to be pretty wide.From the video Description:
"The car is an BMW E30"Says it all.
Also, this.
I have been watching lots of videos of racing.
This car was much faster than everyone else, not just in a straight line, but around the corners.
Car was very smooth.
It was a good example of passing, as it did it over and over and over and over!
How to pass? Have a MUCH faster car? Well having a slow one doesn't work too well.
Passing is about knowing your car, and knowing how to read traffic. You don't need a much faster car. I bet that car in your linked video isn't really all that much faster than the others, the driver is faster. And honestly you'll learn faster in a slow car because it makes you work at it more. If you know your car and know how it can take turns off line, you can get around people. But learning to read traffic is a skill that takes practice. (I am not saying I am amazingly good at either of these BTW).
The best passing and traffic practice I've ever found is showing up to the local go kart track and driving a bunch against the random arrive and drive people. You'll get a good mix of clueless beginners, average people who'll drive the line and force you to find another way around, and the local "pros" who'll make you work to keep up. Everyone's kart is more or less equal, so it makes you focus on reading traffic and improving your own driving to go faster. You don't drive a kart quite like you drive a car, so not all of it transfers 1:1, but the traffic reading sure does.
While I've done a few races now, I need to learn how to pass. Ran across this video, lots to see here.
What do you think? This track seems to be pretty wide.
We run that track in Lemons and there is ample passing room there. [ https://youtu.be/l_5aHCNeYso?t=128 ] I do a goodly amount of passing here too at the same track. I don't force passes like the E30 was doing. My mantra is always position over speed so you will see me give up overall speed and passing opportunities so that I can be where I want to be on the track. I might give up a pass now to make a better/easier pass in a couple of turns. At the 1:12:00 mark, me and the 700 car start cutting through traffic. You can see the drastic difference in driving styles.
#1 identify how you are faster than the car you want to pass. Can you carry more speed: under braking, through a turn, out of a turn, overall straight line speed.
#2 get yourself close to the car you want to pass so that when you are faster than them, you can complete the pass.
#3 expect cars to do the unexpected and never assume that they see you.
Yes that car is very fast.
Yes, Wyatt Foster is also a very fast driver.
Most people in this series could not do what he does, even in the same or a faster car.
How to pass? Have a MUCH faster car? Well having a slow one doesn't work too well.
Depends on how you define slow. A lower HP car that handles well in the hands of decent driver can be competitive. The Kim Jong Elantra is such a car. It handles well but maybe puts 125HP to the pavement. Maybe. We weigh about 2600# with fuel and driver. It is not a fast car. But we can hustle it through the corners well enough to pass a lot of faster cars. Especially on tracks where we spend a lot of time in the corners, like Sonoma.
I think your car handles well, too. So, if you are open to a suggestion, you might work on getting your corner speeds up before worrying about passing. I break each corner down into three sections: turn-in, apex, and exit and am constantly evaluating if I am as fast as I can be at each part of the corner. If you need to simplify that process, start with corner exit speed then move to apex speed and finally entry speed. Then start putting all three together.
--bb
Only watched the first couple of minutes but it seems to me while he's faster, he also shows patience which is key. You might also want to look for in-car video from Eyesore or Cerveza Racing to see how it's done well. But as others have said, going fast and passing can be mutually exclusive things. Doing both together is primarily gained through experience. As previously said, kart racing is very helpful to teach how to pass (and conversely when to be experienced enough to learn the pass won't be clean). Karting also helps avoiding target fixation as your mind tends to steer you towards what you are looking at so when some dude immediately ahead spins and parks it, you train yourself to be looking for the hole and not at the side of their car. Since you appear to be watching these old race videos and probably have come across some with contact and you think "that was kinda dumb, he just drove into the side of them", it's likely due to target fixation. I also find in endurance racing I have to mentally push myself because at some point in the stint I inevitably start to wonder about whether the dog got fed or whatever. At that point I find that I'm just cruising and need to step it back up. But combining aggressiveness with patience is important. There have been times when I'm driving a much slower car and all over a much faster car who is blocking, etc and I just don't see a way around without taking a big risk to force my way through. Or recognize that I don't have enough talent to make it safely through. Eventually I'll have enough and had the patience to just drive down the hot pit just to get out of sequence with the blocker to fight another day.
nimblemotorsports wrote:While I've done a few races now, I need to learn how to pass. Ran across this video, lots to see here.
What do you think? This track seems to be pretty wide.We run that track in Lemons and there is ample passing room there. [ https://youtu.be/l_5aHCNeYso?t=128 ] I do a goodly amount of passing here too at the same track. I don't force passes like the E30 was doing. My mantra is always position over speed so you will see me give up overall speed and passing opportunities so that I can be where I want to be on the track. I might give up a pass now to make a better/easier pass in a couple of turns. At the 1:12:00 mark, me and the 700 car start cutting through traffic. You can see the drastic difference in driving styles.
#1 identify how you are faster than the car you want to pass. Can you carry more speed: under braking, through a turn, out of a turn, overall straight line speed.
#2 get yourself close to the car you want to pass so that when you are faster than them, you can complete the pass.
#3 expect cars to do the unexpected and never assume that they see you.
Bolded text is basically the Lemons textbook for driving a quick(ish) car.
Wondering if anyone else who watched the OP's video was thinking "It's you homeslice"?
Faster is faster, doesn't mean just in a straight line. Clearly though if you can blow by on a straight, that is the easy button.
Watching this video, you can't say the driver was just taking a faster line with a slower car.
He was taking slower lines but doing them faster! Me thinks that is what made this car so fast and able to pass.
I had mentioned this before too, he doesn't slow down much, keeps the speed up while passing.
Many (most?) let him by too. I enjoyed watching it, was most impressive.
I would appreciate any links to good passing videos.
RobL wrote:#1 identify how you are faster than the car you want to pass. Can you carry more speed: under braking, through a turn, out of a turn, overall straight line speed.
#2 get yourself close to the car you want to pass so that when you are faster than them, you can complete the pass.
#3 expect cars to do the unexpected and never assume that they see you.Bolded text is basically the Lemons textbook for driving a quick(ish) car.
Reverse everything if you are slower and want to help facilitate other cars to pass you easily.
The last race we did with the Rolls was a learning experience. I was passing anywhere from 5 to 20 cars every lap.
I've only raced a few times so take my info with a grain of salt. The Rolls being so huge makes things a little difficult compared to smaller cars like E30's zipping around everything. I don't like to be a jerk or force position or anything like that. I would mostly pass by either powering around them when I could predict their line, or braking deep inside corners so I became visible and they knew I was there.
The most frustrating thing is when someone is unpredictable with sudden jerky movements. I notice those cars usually have traffic jams around them and take a little more time and patience to pass safely.
And the big thing not mentioned yet, is look ahead. Make a plan before you're at the car you want to pass. Don't just get in traffic then try and work your way out. The real quick drivers (nothing to do with car) already know Where they want to be before they get up to the car they want to pass and know where they want to be after they make the pass. And they are looking there.
And if they do get stuck they still look ahead (and in their mirrors) to find a space they can exploit.
It also helps to have a maneuverable car that doesn't lose energy quickly when you have to work around traffic. With an MX3 you already have that. It's an energy car, your best strategy is to focus on not slowing down. Don't do crazy deep late apexes, trail brake into pre apex power. Learn the kind of corners your car likes being fast through, and plan to pass there when possible.
Yes that car is very fast.
Yes, Wyatt Foster is also a very fast driver.
Most people in this series could not do what he does, even in the same or a faster car.
Yup, and that car isn't cheated up like many are in ChumpCar.
Fishah wrote:Yes that car is very fast.
Yes, Wyatt Foster is also a very fast driver.
Most people in this series could not do what he does, even in the same or a faster car.
Yup, and that car isn't cheated up like many are in ChumpCar.
Wyatt is stupid fast in anything, that car without wyatt still pulls harder then many e30, put them together and it makes v8 cars wonder if they need a new tune.
One other thing that hasnt been mentioned, leave enough room between you and the person you intend to pass when entering a corner, so you can be accelerating through the corner and catch them right after corner exit.
This mindset keeps from the dreaded "dive bomb", which gets you into trouble with the judges.
Learn the other drivers and cars on track with you. Pay attention to how they drive and their capabilities. Use this when planning ahead with your moves as was mentioned before.
It will help you from getting caught stuck behind a slow car.
And then remember that every session there will be different drivers in each car so you'll have to re-learn the cars to a degree.
I also look ahead to what turns/straights are coming. At Gingerman earlier this month there were some very fast cars in the straight that couldn't take turns as fast as I could. It was pointless for me to pass these cars in 10B before the big straight. Instead I would stay close positioning myself to pass in turns 1-3 or 5-7. By the time we got to 10B again I'd have enough lead to keep it and gain more ground in the 1st half of the next lap.
When I saw the Rolls coming I'd just wave it by! Partly b/c I knew how fast it was. It was also just too cool to watch.
Here is Cerveza doing a lot of passing, seems pretty aggressive to me.
Aggressive? I mostly just see a car driving around slower cars. The Gopro car was defending kind of aggressively, but Cerveza was just finding holes in traffic.
More importantly you notice how both times they made the pass on Gopro was in the same spot.
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