Why so much HATE from "real racers" (Page 2 of 3)

This one, Joe- http://www.cacklefest.com/Scorpion.shtml

Soldmystang - I don't disagree with you on any of those points.  And, to be clear, I don't think Lemons doesn't demand racecraft.  Turning consistently fast laps in a Lemons field requires looking ahead, being smooth, anticipating and managing traffic, passing under braking, drafting, etc. etc. etc.  But, it hasn't in the 4 races that I've done, provided the SAME experience as being matched with 30, 40 or even 70 other cars with very similar power-weight-handling characteristics where you're fighting for positions with the same drivers for 30 minutes at a time.  With the exceptions of getting to battle with Clay occasionally and the whale car (500 buck chuck, now, I think) at T-Hill, and oh yeah, the Big Sausage car for a few laps near the end of the Buttonwillow race, I've had very few multi-lap battles with another car.  It's just *different* - that's all I'm saying.  Driving in a lot of traffic isn't for everyone.  Is it real racing - ABSOLUTELY!!!!!  I think Tom Neely's post in another thread summed it up best, and that guy has more experience racing than all of us.

And I totally get your point about the marque specific forums and the arrogance that exists there.  I'm part of a car-enthusiast email list, and only a few of them "get Lemons".  As another guy said, don't bother trying to justify or defend it to them.  We're already over-subscribed for races - we don't need them

See you all at T-Hill in just a few weeks!

Cheers,

Dean

yep, got this video at northstar. scorpion is all the way to the right, next to the gizzlehopper. the far left car is a nailhead owned by Uncle Wayne Calvert. it''s going to be restored, and go on tour. aafd car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WnpqA-6c1o

somebody might be able to watch it if i post it!!!!!!!

IMHO what's different between Lemons and real racing isn't as much what is different on the track or in the pits during the race but before and after. I'm a long-time autocrosser and what's kept me out of road racing until now is the relative lack of camaraderie off-track. Face it most road racer's go home by themselves after a race and don't communicate off-track much. Compare that to autocrossers where we not only hang out on the track but afterwards and many times between races too. That's what I like about Lemons, it combines the on-track experience of road racing with the off-track social aspects of autocrossing, all at a cost that's less than the cost of fielding a well-prepared autocross car. A win-win in my book.

Noooo. Bill finish the V-8 MR2 and run it in Lemons, your on the right track you just need to finish the job.

I agree with all sorts of things in this post but disagree with it's beginning.

I have raced with SCCA, NASA and PCA guys all on my team in my car in Lemons.  If they didn't like it, they wouldn't keep coming back.

I have raced with a lot of Spec Miata drivers too.  I have not seen the attitudes attributed to many of the stereo typical "real" racers from these guys.

Although the PCA guy did get the car stuck in the gravel.

We got involved in Lemons at the first race at MSRH Oct 08.  At that race Jonny and Phil even commented on how clean the racing was. 

My car got it's first actual dents thanks to the nudists at MSR Feb 10 in our 5th race.  They are minor but the left headlight bucket is a bit of an oval now.

The racing and cars have steadily improved over each race.  Themes are improving too.

We never experienced anything like Altamont in Texas and only a couple of teams were experienced Lemons racers when the first race happened at MSR.  So we don;t know anything differently.

In our market I see and hear from SCCA and NASA driver's looking to get into Lemons.  We may have been looked down upon previously and occasionally still today.  However, many "real" racers feel like they are missing the party and want to come to Lemons.

There are drivers with bad attitudes everywhere, even in Lemons.  In Lemons they get an attitude check or they get trailered.

Regarding the flipped Escort at MSRH.  If that was the red City Garage Escort ZX2.  It comes as no surprise to me.  They almost hit me and about put me two off.  I was up on the curbing pretty far and I could have reached out and touched them.  It is unfortunate if they wrecked their car but it wasn't necessary to crowd anyone like that and they had it coming.  I believe I was not the only person on my team to have a very close encounter with them either.

The "real" racers I race with feel like Lemons is real racing.

To me we have a $500 Unlimited Class.  There is no Spec this or that.  We try whatever we can come up with.  Our cars are different in all sorts of ways yet many very different cars complete well together.  We do what we can with what we have.

I believe there is far more racecraft going on than anyone gives us credit for.  We have to judges our abilities and our cars abilities as we work our way through a field of very different cars and drivers.  We are not all driving the same cars on the same "line." 

We are going several cars wide through turns due to differences in cars and driving ability.  We have to chose our battles.

We run piles of crap for hours on end.

Sprint races don't require pit stops.  There is no fuel management in sprint racing.  Our tire management has to go well beyond 20-40 minutes.  Competitive teams are juggling all kinds of variables that never happen in sprint races. 

This is all just the racing part of Lemons.  Then there are the themes, costumes, crazy engineering and paddock parties.  The real races I have been to not nearly as entertaining as Lemons or as much fun.

A side note, the show Madhouse is an excellent example of what is wrong with a lot of racing.  Those guys or assholes and they push cars out of the way in a turn.  We could use the car in front of us to slow us down as we push them out of the way in a turn.  That's crappy driving in my opinion.  I'd like to see driver's like that get some Lemons justice.  Same with Nascar.  We are driving to a higher standard in my opinion and I like it.

Long live Lemons!

Computers? What? Aintcha never heard of ghetto-fabbed throttle-body-to-Holley-carb plywood adapter plates?

Yes, exactly.  I ran several seasons in SCCA Showroom Stock, about 10 years ago.  I was a mid-pack finisher, though, and it was a sad thing to see the leaders check out a few laps into the race.  My races might as well have been track lapping days.  The whole experience just wasn't worth it, for me.  I sold my SSC car a while back, and I thought that I was done with racing until one of my teammates pulled me into Lemons.

Lemons racing has many attractive features, but on race day my favorite thing is the abundance of RACING.  I am passing (and being passed) every lap!  It's as if the chaos of the first couple of laps of an SCCA race lasts for my entire stint...and I love it.

I'm not saying you are un-legit

I am however saying that I want to see you in fishnets with a strap-on holding hands with Ronald Reagan and passing out fish and chips.

That's all.

One of the things i like best about Lemons is that i can build any ridiculous contraption I can dream up as long as it does not cost too much.  There are almost no rules!

The good Dr. is 63 years old and I have raced in everything from drags to hill climbs.  I also have a couple of competition road racing licenses. This was my third Lemons event and the first in my own car. While there is a wide variety of driving talent, I found the racing competition to be just as tough as other events I have run in. All of us who have "come up through the ranks", attended drivers school to get licensed know that some of the Lemons folks do not have a through knowledge of some basic comp etiquette.  I know this so I never assume everyone out there drives like I do. If you get into trouble on the course, 99% of the time it is YOUR fault.  However, hopefully, you learn by your mistakes and no one else pays the price.  Driver’s costly mistakes make us all aware this is not a game of bumper cars. The Lemons organization is protecting themselves and all of us with their "fine tuning" of these fun racing events. The multitude of cars on the track helps me become a more aware driver.  If SCCA & NASA made it mandatory to race one Lemons event prior to them issuing comp licenses, they would probably have a higher number of better drivers.  If you can survive a two-day Lemons event, you can race anywhere.