Topic: So has covid pretty much wiped out crapcan pricing

what used to be get it out of my driveway pricing is now 3k which is absurd.  Feel bad for newer teams.

Re: So has covid pretty much wiped out crapcan pricing

Not just Covid contributes to this!
Supply chain and lack of computer Chips have also set this off.
I have a shop in New york (Hudson Valley, Not the city) and what people are spending on Junk to fix them up is absurd.
Good for me I guess, but thousands of dollars on cars that would be junked 5 years ago is strange.
Manny

Re: So has covid pretty much wiped out crapcan pricing

Mkotzias wrote:

Not just Covid contributes to this!
Supply chain and lack of computer Chips have also set this off.
I have a shop in New york (Hudson Valley, Not the city) and what people are spending on Junk to fix them up is absurd.
Good for me I guess, but thousands of dollars on cars that would be junked 5 years ago is strange.
Manny

The chip shortage is partially related to COVID. There's a ton of factors that all play together, but it's largely due to the shortcomings of "just in time" manufacturing combined with shifting demands on types of chips, and then a global distribution disruption.

The whole world (generalization) works on this idea that you order parts to show up just when you need them, never stockpile. Covid hit and suddenly the demand for new cars dropped while consumer electronics raised. So chip foundries shifted focus. Somewhere in there a major factory burned down too, which put a big hit in production. When auto makers went to scale up again they found that they couldn't get the same supply because other markets had stolen production time. Suddenly they didn't have the chips they needed and so the snowball goes. People and companies panic and start mass buying and stockpiling and now the problem gets worse.

There are a couple new chip plants coming up, but they are crazy expensive to build and take time. For now we just get to ride the crazy ride.


The whole thing has made my job tricky. Small startup trying to design electronics and we simply can't compete with big companies who are trying to buy every single piece of a part that comes on the market. It's been insane watching things like resistors go from millions in stock to zero in days. Forget trying to find microcontrollers, that's a fools errand. Sensors too are just impossible. I started this job like 6 months before Covid really hit and it's been a master class in electronics supply chains, designing for multiple alternates, designing for what's available now without crippling future feature sets, etc. What a ride.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Turbo Dodge Powered E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: So has covid pretty much wiped out crapcan pricing

Red Lemons Racing wrote:

what used to be get it out of my driveway pricing is now 3k which is absurd.  Feel bad for newer teams.

I've gotten a glut of emails about this lately. There's still some creativity possible in this; every town has a handful of cars parked that are going nowhere soon. You can probably still scoop those up by knocking on the door, pointing to your trailer, and waving a couple of Benjamins at them the way people have always done for Lemons. Or ask around the local shops to see if there's a non-bill-paid "mechanic's special" sitting in their storage or something.

Anyone with a running car and FB Marketplace thinks they're sitting on a goldmine. Marketplace has always been full of lunatics, so you're going to have to find cars that aren't on there. It's tough, but they're out there. You probably aren't scooping up a running BMW E46 anytime soon, but if you lower your standards and see the Escort Wagon that's half-hidden under a cover in a driveway, you might manage that.

ALSO: This is a great time to point out that there are certainly dozens (if not hundreds) of old Lemons cars just sitting in people's yards waiting for "someday." Ask around and you might find someone finally willing to part with a car that hasn't raced in a few years. Sure, it'll need some work, but it likely needs less than whatever you're dredging out of the swamp/back 40/neglected estate.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

Re: So has covid pretty much wiped out crapcan pricing

I wiffed one a running & driving  E46 330ci last week in need of a steering rack for $1500. Looked like it could easily be sold down to $500.

I still find cheap 323s, 325s and 4 doors.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

6 (edited by fleming95 2022-02-15 10:34 AM)

Re: So has covid pretty much wiped out crapcan pricing

Datapoint here -

The wife had an  '88 Brazilian Fox that we parked in her mother's driveway in '02 with 132k miles on it.
Was smogged here in Norcal and registered until '19, wife just lost interest in it.
(Did give a thought to selling it to a Fox team but I never saw one on the West Coast.)

Still started and ran in December, and I was ready to get it back on the road but got a full 'NOPE' on that one.
Was donated to charity.  Got the charity slip in the mail in mid-January.

$900.

Someone musta either had one in Brazil and had a soft spot for them, or the $$$Jetronic$$$ parts were worth something in a Porsche.

Sigh.

Re: So has covid pretty much wiped out crapcan pricing

TheEngineer wrote:
Mkotzias wrote:

Not just Covid contributes to this!
Supply chain and lack of computer Chips have also set this off.
I have a shop in New york (Hudson Valley, Not the city) and what people are spending on Junk to fix them up is absurd.
Good for me I guess, but thousands of dollars on cars that would be junked 5 years ago is strange.
Manny

The chip shortage is partially related to COVID. There's a ton of factors that all play together, but it's largely due to the shortcomings of "just in time" manufacturing combined with shifting demands on types of chips, and then a global distribution disruption.

The whole world (generalization) works on this idea that you order parts to show up just when you need them, never stockpile. Covid hit and suddenly the demand for new cars dropped while consumer electronics raised. So chip foundries shifted focus. Somewhere in there a major factory burned down too, which put a big hit in production. When auto makers went to scale up again they found that they couldn't get the same supply because other markets had stolen production time. Suddenly they didn't have the chips they needed and so the snowball goes. People and companies panic and start mass buying and stockpiling and now the problem gets worse.
.

The automakers basically stopped taking in chips, so that production was redirected to sectors that were boomer like cell phones, graphics cards, etc. The margins are lower when selling to automakers so the chip companies aren't in a rush to increase capacity just for them. I still see a lot of crap boxes on Facebook market place though

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

Re: So has covid pretty much wiped out crapcan pricing

therood wrote:
Red Lemons Racing wrote:

what used to be get it out of my driveway pricing is now 3k which is absurd.  Feel bad for newer teams.

I've gotten a glut of emails about this lately. There's still some creativity possible in this; every town has a handful of cars parked that are going nowhere soon. You can probably still scoop those up by knocking on the door, pointing to your trailer, and waving a couple of Benjamins at them the way people have always done for Lemons. Or ask around the local shops to see if there's a non-bill-paid "mechanic's special" sitting in their storage or something.

Anyone with a running car and FB Marketplace thinks they're sitting on a goldmine. Marketplace has always been full of lunatics, so you're going to have to find cars that aren't on there. It's tough, but they're out there. You probably aren't scooping up a running BMW E46 anytime soon, but if you lower your standards and see the Escort Wagon that's half-hidden under a cover in a driveway, you might manage that.

ALSO: This is a great time to point out that there are certainly dozens (if not hundreds) of old Lemons cars just sitting in people's yards waiting for "someday." Ask around and you might find someone finally willing to part with a car that hasn't raced in a few years. Sure, it'll need some work, but it likely needs less than whatever you're dredging out of the swamp/back 40/neglected estate.

100% agree.. just gotta be patient and ready when the deal pops up.

We're gathering cars for the gambler 500 right now and scooped up an odyssey through family for free, and a smogged/pink-slip 320k mile cavalier with a misfire for $500. Also, this is with a huge filter of needs paperwork so it can be street legal... there's lots out there with bad paperwork; Or there's still lots of reasonably priced retired "race" cars.

Full Ass Racing
#455 Piñata Miata
#735 BMDollhÜr 7Turdy5i

Re: So has covid pretty much wiped out crapcan pricing

therood wrote:

ALSO: This is a great time to point out that there are certainly dozens (if not hundreds) of old Lemons cars just sitting in people's yards waiting for "someday." Ask around and you might find someone finally willing to part with a car that hasn't raced in a few years. Sure, it'll need some work, but it likely needs less than whatever you're dredging out of the swamp/back 40/neglected estate.

You've been looking at satellite photos of my property again, haven't you...

I know of a nicely caged '08 Prius that someone could get creative with. I mean how hard could it be to drop any ol' fwd powerplant in that monster of an engine bay. Not joking--- it's HUGE. I mean, there's still a 2cyl aircooled motor in there now, but that can come out and [insert robot arms] "I can't believe you put a XYZ in a Prius, You're my hero/I hate you". And yes, it is CA titled.

Re: So has covid pretty much wiped out crapcan pricing

wiped out?  There was nearly 150 cars at Sonoma in December....seems to be stronger than ever.

Re: So has covid pretty much wiped out crapcan pricing

Bricoop wrote:

wiped out?  There was nearly 150 cars at Sonoma in December....seems to be stronger than ever.

Many of these cars have been around for quite some time.    Heck I think Halloween Hooptiefest had 120 this year.  Not saying teams are not showing up but lack of good decent cheap car supply has dwindled to no existent. 

Funny E46's should be mentioned I was doing my normal C-list shopping and was looking for some E46 candidates.  The are at that crusp of crap and racecar.

Re: So has covid pretty much wiped out crapcan pricing

I get that. I work in a shop in AZ and the cars that are getting fixed amaze me. Sure, let’s fix the entire front suspension on a 2002 Jetta. Makes sense to me (not) but I guess there’s not much out there in the pipeline to buy instead.  I’ve heard tales of *burned* cars getting rebuilt entirely in 1943-44. When there ISNT another car to buy, I guess that is what happens.

I bought my next Lemons/Lucky project car in Dec, and hauled it a sanity-defying distance home. Seller was amazed I’d paid so much for a C4 Corvette. I shrugged, at today’s prices I was buying a cage and getting a free Vette with a decent amount of spare parts thrown in. Even considering the gas bill towing home in the F250. This was never cheap racing, but when the cage is gonna run $2500 and Ford Escorts suddenly  cost $3000… gonna see a lot more people building E46s and Corvettes, aren’t you?

I’m just glad the stars aligned and we were GIVEN a running driving Passat in 2019. Yes, Virginia, 20 year old VWs with quirks didn’t used to be worth anything.

#289 1984 Corvette Z51 (the road goes on forever…)
#111 Tradewinds Tribesmen VW Passat Inde ‘20 (‘21 too) Thunderhill ‘22!
Gone but not forgotten, #427-Hong Kong Cavaliers Benz S500: formerly known as OMG Racing #140
Other foolishness: Finisher of Hell on Wheels (Jaguar) IOE (Humber)

13

Re: So has covid pretty much wiped out crapcan pricing

I imagine it hits new teams differently depending on mechanical acumen. 

Teams who can handle starting a build with a car with a blown engine/transmission/etc probably won't be greatly affected. 

Teams who plan on starting with a car that moves under its own power... yeah, that could be tougher. 

Me of three years ago (unsoiled, innocent, hopeful) would have had a more difficult time finding a platform to build on.  Me of today (now buster of many a knuckle on major mechanicals) really only considers non-running cars or pre-caged rolling shells.

Re: So has covid pretty much wiped out crapcan pricing

Meh, this is why you stockpile future Lemons cars in the back yard...I have two back there but willing to part with the V70.

15 (edited by chaase 2022-02-17 08:34 AM)

Re: So has covid pretty much wiped out crapcan pricing

I think one of the problems is that people are trying to find a racecar and those cars are "worth more". If you go with a car that is not a decent race car, there are more options. You may go above $500.00 but the judges just won't care.

For example, a love 2003 Chevy Malibu automatic. They are asking $1200. You could probably get some money knocked off the price but noone is going to hassle you about this crap can.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/it … =top_picks

1999 Cavalier automatic that they are asking $750 dollars for but want it gone. it's a decent car and I doubt you'll get the third degree on the price.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/it … =top_picks

I think they are asking a bit much but an '04 Lincoln Town car asking $1600 get some money off and you have Class C domination. No real budget issues on a 150k mile, 18 year old boat.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/it … 4%7D%22%7D

Here's a 1977 Jaguar asking $1000. Looks like some assembly required.  Who is going to hassle you about this?
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/it … =top_picks

I don't know if it can made light enough but here is a $900 asking price ford F150
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/it … 5%7D%22%7D

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

16 (edited by fleming95 2022-02-17 10:12 AM)

Re: So has covid pretty much wiped out crapcan pricing

You got me looking at SF Bay Craigslist postings and there are actually some good looking candidates out there -

<edit - with some great observations by the owners>

- BMW 2000 323ci - $350 (richmond / point / annex) - " White BMW... Was running but haven't start in a year..."
- VOLKSWAGEN Passat 2006 - $550 - "Runs great - text if interested - dash has a lot of lights"
- 2003 SVT Ford Focus for Parts - $700 (concord / pleasant hill / martinez) - Does not run anymore...was hit by driver running red light, new suspension and alternator, etc.
- 2001 BMW 325xi FOR SALE* - $500 (santa cruz) - "Due to some mechanical issue my car is not running... "
(and this one's a manual transmission for the 3 pedal lovers)

But this one's not for us:
- Acura integra - $500 -  "Selling whole car for parts for $500. It’s a 95 Acura integra 4 door, white , body fair condition, stick shift. Serious people only."

Re: So has covid pretty much wiped out crapcan pricing

Sent you a forum message - are you looking for an E46?

Re: So has covid pretty much wiped out crapcan pricing

There's always the option of waiting for a team to loathe their race car so much that they give it away for free!

...

{ curses in NLA parts }

Re: So has covid pretty much wiped out crapcan pricing

Red Lemons Racing wrote:

what used to be get it out of my driveway pricing is now 3k which is absurd.  Feel bad for newer teams.

Youre kidding, right?

If i put $1000 as my maximum search price on FB marketplace, I get over 1000 hits  first page is a neon R/T with manual trans (did they all come that way?) for 1000.

If i filter further and as for manual trans only, I get 322 cars (only about half were actual cars for sale for 1k).

Prelude
Civics
Accord
Volvo 240
Audi A4
Scion Tc
Protege 5
Eclipse
mazda 3
72 Lemans

Silent But Deadly Racing- Chief cook and bottle washer, Ricky Bobby's Laughing Clown Malt Liquor Thunderbird Turbo Coupe, Datsun 510, 87 Mustang (The Race Team Formerly Known as Prince), 72 Pinto Squire waggy, Parnelli Jones 67 Galaxie, Turbo Coupe Surf wagon.(The Surfin Bird), Squatting Dogs In Tracksuits, finally a B class winner.

Besmirching race tracks in the Eastern US since 2001

Re: So has covid pretty much wiped out crapcan pricing

TheEngineer wrote:

The chip shortage is partially related to COVID. There's a ton of factors that all play together, but it's largely due to the shortcomings of "just in time" manufacturing combined with shifting demands on types of chips, and then a global distribution disruption.

The whole world (generalization) works on this idea that you order parts to show up just when you need them, never stockpile. Covid hit and suddenly the demand for new cars dropped while consumer electronics raised. So chip foundries shifted focus. Somewhere in there a major factory burned down too, which put a big hit in production. When auto makers went to scale up again they found that they couldn't get the same supply because other markets had stolen production time. Suddenly they didn't have the chips they needed and so the snowball goes. People and companies panic and start mass buying and stockpiling and now the problem gets worse.

There are a couple new chip plants coming up, but they are crazy expensive to build and take time. For now we just get to ride the crazy ride.


The whole thing has made my job tricky. Small startup trying to design electronics and we simply can't compete with big companies who are trying to buy every single piece of a part that comes on the market. It's been insane watching things like resistors go from millions in stock to zero in days. Forget trying to find microcontrollers, that's a fools errand. Sensors too are just impossible. I started this job like 6 months before Covid really hit and it's been a master class in electronics supply chains, designing for multiple alternates, designing for what's available now without crippling future feature sets, etc. What a ride.

Lean Manufacturing just doesn't work. When will we learn?

Re: So has covid pretty much wiped out crapcan pricing

BTW, I went and grabbed the ACR.  It's going to a midwest team

Silent But Deadly Racing- Chief cook and bottle washer, Ricky Bobby's Laughing Clown Malt Liquor Thunderbird Turbo Coupe, Datsun 510, 87 Mustang (The Race Team Formerly Known as Prince), 72 Pinto Squire waggy, Parnelli Jones 67 Galaxie, Turbo Coupe Surf wagon.(The Surfin Bird), Squatting Dogs In Tracksuits, finally a B class winner.

Besmirching race tracks in the Eastern US since 2001

Re: So has covid pretty much wiped out crapcan pricing

I gave up on a Celica project last week and sold it to scrap.  I'm sitting on a 2000 Mustang GT that runs and can't get a nibble for 500$.  I bought a complete running Elantra that was used in a budget track day competition complete with the ugliest cage you ever hope to see for 500 last month.    A Lemons team drove up to  nearby (Nashville)  last fall and bought a BMW off marketplace after I shared a local listing. They are out there if you look.

Re: So has covid pretty much wiped out crapcan pricing

Hell, there is a prepp'ed Neon for sale in Chciagoland right now for $1100 with a $900 seat in it.

IT got harder but Lemons grade cars on a budget are still out there.  DOM is more than double for a cage so still gonna be spendy.