1 (edited by zer0 2022-03-07 09:16 AM)

Topic: Road Mangler Experiences

Hey everyone,

I was hoping to find out what yokohamas have people been having good luck with?

We here at Zero Energy Racing haven't changed tire compounds since the Rival S came out and forced us to the NT05.  So in that probably 6 year window I assume tires have gotten less bad.  I was thinking of moving to a Yokohama compound, but, I wanted to see what is actually holding up?  We are in a light to mid weight car (2400ish) so, any experiences, thoughts etc would be greatly appreciated.

Capt. Zero Energy Racing
Somewhat quick and moderately angsty.

2 (edited by duthehustle93 2022-03-07 10:22 AM)

Re: Road Mangler Experiences

Good call of looking for a new compound! There have been some crazy 200TW wars happening in the last couple years so generally speaking, any new 200TW compound is better than the ones sold 4+ years ago. The downside is that 200TW doesn't mean anything anymore... there's now 200TW tires that wear faster than a Hoosier A7 and ones that wear like iron.

From my experience Yokohama doesn't make a compound that makes sense to use in budget endurance racing. The A052 is the fastest single lap 200TW tire on the market today, but it's a one lap hero and it'll drop pace after about 3 laps as it generates a lot of heat and doesn't like heat. Also, it's the fastest wearing and one of the most expensive in the 200TW category... it's a cheater 200TW tire for TA/AutoX. The AD08R wears a lot better, but it's one of the slowest 200TW tires I've ever driven and I didn't like the way it drove. It's cool that Lemons has the road mangler thing going for them but even if you're lucky enough to win a set of tires every other race it'll still be cheaper to get RS4's and call it a day. RS4's will last ~5 times longer than an A052 (I'm not exaggerating).

For reference to your experience, RS4 pace is in between the Rival and Rival S... but the RS4 will outlast both, is cheaper, and I prefer the way RS4's drive over the BFG's. No experience with NT05's but I've heard they're a bit disappointing.

Full Ass Racing
#455 Piñata Miata
#735 BMDollhÜr 7Turdy5i

3 (edited by AT-JeffT 2022-03-07 01:24 PM)

Re: Road Mangler Experiences

I think duthehustle93 nailed it. +1 to everything mentioned.

Even if you factor in a significant chance of winning free tires, It's still not worth it.  The races I've been two have been somewhere between a 1 in 2 chance and 1 in 6 chance of winning the free tire raffle.  Yokohama simply doesn't produce a tire that makes sense for us budget endurance racers. The Hankook RS4 is simply by far the best choice.

Just looked up the Tire Rack pricing for the AD08R and it's comically high.  ~$350 per tire for 18".  That's roughly double what the Hankook RS4s are when purchased through Hankook Motorsports. There's just no way I would consider a slower, more expensive tire that lasts half as long.

Re: Road Mangler Experiences

I agree with the above answers 100%.  I have been looking at the Yokohama site hoping that a new tire would come out aligned with what we do in Lemons but nothing yet for endurance.  Hope they have some better options otherwise I am not sure why they continue to sponsor. Even if they had something close to the same price and performance of a competitor I would be inclined to use them.

Sorry For Party Racing   #21 Pontiac Slowstice

Re: Road Mangler Experiences

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/artic … ers-guide/

This excellent track tire guide echoes everything said above, but with more data behind it and a nice comparison chart at the bottom.

Re: Road Mangler Experiences

RS4 or dont bother in the endurance road racing 200tw category.

Wear like iron, manage heat very well, are predictable and fairly cheap.   The only downside is they suck in the cold and the rain.
If you run a Luckydog race you can buy them for fairly cheap through Hankook. 

I have not bothered with any yokohama tire since we have a relatively heavy car and they dont make anything that wont be shit or we wont destroy.

Re: Road Mangler Experiences

hkerekes wrote:

RS4 or dont bother in the endurance road racing 200tw category.

Agree somewhat if a bit overstated...do you go to 300-400 treadwear when FS-4's are perpetually out of stick in your size?  Or maybe Azenis RT615K+ really are damned good as well...just not as good as RS4's for most cars.

Re: Road Mangler Experiences

OnkelUdo wrote:
hkerekes wrote:

RS4 or dont bother in the endurance road racing 200tw category.

Agree somewhat if a bit overstated...do you go to 300-400 treadwear when FS-4's are perpetually out of stick in your size?  Or maybe Azenis RT615K+ really are damned good as well...just not as good as RS4's for most cars.


RS4 last multiple races on our heavy rwd car and we have had zero issue getting 285/35/18 sizes.  You also can run Luckydog and win tires,brakes, and gift certificates.  With some planning in stock issues should not be a problem since you will have months between races.

300-400 treadwear? Why bother when you can make 200tw tires last longer and are close to the same price.

Re: Road Mangler Experiences

hkerekes wrote:
OnkelUdo wrote:
hkerekes wrote:

RS4 or dont bother in the endurance road racing 200tw category.

Agree somewhat if a bit overstated...do you go to 300-400 treadwear when FS-4's are perpetually out of stick in your size?  Or maybe Azenis RT615K+ really are damned good as well...just not as good as RS4's for most cars.


RS4 last multiple races on our heavy rwd car and we have had zero issue getting 285/35/18 sizes.  You also can run Luckydog and win tires,brakes, and gift certificates.  With some planning in stock issues should not be a problem since you will have months between races.

300-400 treadwear? Why bother when you can make 200tw tires last longer and are close to the same price.

You missed the point but that's OK.  The size we use has been out of stock for over three months and we use it on two of out 4, soon to be 3 of our 5, cars.  It will get critical in about 45 days.  I repeat my earlier quote from you "RS4 or dont bother in the endurance road racing 200tw category." So you are saying your options are RS4 or not race based on your second response because no other 200TW tire is good enough (first response and repeated here) and 3-400 are not an option?  Maybe it is RS4 or Roadstones only?

I just want to know if I am going to our next race or not if the RZ4's in our size do not come in.

10 (edited by hkerekes 2022-03-11 02:15 PM)

Re: Road Mangler Experiences

You have 3 cars running the exact same size? 

The only size that i cant order at the moment is 225/45/17  They do have a 245/40/17

Why not change tire sizes if you are having trouble sourcing a certain size?   Different rim sizes are everywhere.


The rt615k+ is more expensive, doesnt last as long, and doesnt come in our current size.   I could move down to a 275 or up to a 295 but what for.  I can get the RS4 in those sizes as well for a better tire.

Re: Road Mangler Experiences

hkerekes wrote:

You have 3 cars running the exact same size? 

The only size that i cant order at the moment is 225/45/17  They do have a 245/40/17

Why not change tire sizes if you are having trouble sourcing a certain size?   Different rim sizes are everywhere.


The rt615k+ is more expensive, doesnt last as long, and doesnt come in our current size.   I could move down to a 275 or up to a 295 but what for.  I can get the RS4 in those sizes as well for a better tire.

Man, you can hold on to the RS4 is the only answer pretty tight, can't you?  I admire your commitment.

Running the same size tires on multiple cars was an accident but it has its advantages in off-season purchasing...we just did not do enough of it.  We do have a set of RS4's on the shelf for the one that runs 16's.

So let me get this right, we should buy different rims because the Azenis don't last quite as long (on the only vehicle we have run both back to back...about 40% better wear for RS4's) and this is how we will save money? 

I have yet to see the Azenis more expensive...in the sizes we run.  Even used OEM rims tend to run $50 each used and there are no wider ones for one bolt pattern.  At least one car would require spacers or wierd offset and flares to run a wider tire...that one already destroys stuff like wheel bearings on 225/45/17's.  This really is looking like a value proposition to buy new rims in an odd offset and rare bolt pattern, then add fender flares and average at least one more wheel bearing a race.  The math totally checks out.

To everyone else out there on the fence.  The RS4's are the better choice for most applications but the Azenis RT615K+ are a great choice as well.  We have used them on various different weight, speed and drive configuration cars...they were better for our style of racing before they added the + but most cars at most tracks can get an entire race out them.  If you can get the RS4's, they seem to be a longer lasting option with no negative trade-off and (in our case) are only about $10 (our car that runs 16") or $15 (the out of stock 17") per tire more delivered.

When we did win a set of Yokohama's years ago they had amazing grip but even our minivan which is very easy on tires destroyed them by the end of one race.  That vehicle normally gets two or more races out of the Azenis mentioned above.  I forget which Yokohama we ran.

Re: Road Mangler Experiences

This is another example of racing oddball cars with weak wheel bearings and hard to get parts.

Good luck.

Re: Road Mangler Experiences

hkerekes wrote:

This is another example of racing oddball cars with weak wheel bearings and hard to get parts.

Good luck.

Of course it is example of racing oddball cars!  Its a series whose very award structure rewards that.  If only this were spec (insert superior car here) no one would have differing needs or opinions and then maybe RS4's would be the only possible answer.

Seriously consider the variety Lemons offers before making concrete statements that begin with "XYZ or dont bother in the endurance racing".  The variety and creativity is what sets 24 Hours of Lemons appart from AER/WRL/Champ/Lucky Dog.  A portion of the field is running a totally different race that intentionally brings unsuitable cars and does unsuitable things to suitable cars because it is hilarious while still a ton of fun on the track! Sometimes we even run suboptimal rubber, differentials, wheel bearings, camber, caster, suspension components, clutches and the list is infinite.  There is no one correct answer...even my beloved ST43 brake pads are now being challenged and we will eventually try those competitive pads on our fast car.

Good luck to you are yours as well.

Re: Road Mangler Experiences

https://youtu.be/pus6XF_qh38

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

15 (edited by hkerekes 2022-03-13 08:09 PM)

Re: Road Mangler Experiences

AER and WRL arent even in the same league.  Champ has its own world of stupid rules and is faster than Lemons.   Luckydog is basically Lemons without the costumes and themes and the speeds can be comparable since they run A,B, and C classes with a cap on the lap times.

I fully realize Lemons rewards oddball shit and our crown victoria is not supposed to be "fast".     Buying tires that last is the whole point of endurance road racing, and RS4 are better at lasting than most street tires out there.  It isnt about them being the fastest or the best, they last and are relatively cheap.  Thats why i said RS4 or dont bother...................  If you come to win a oddball trophy and not focus on the racing then thats what Lemons can be good for.   I personally dont care about the oddball trophy, i come to race, have fun, and maybe win a class.    Both types of teams can coexist in Lemons.    Having weak wheel bearings and hard to find parts are less likely to get you much in the form of any trophy, oddball or not.

Re: Road Mangler Experiences

https://c.tenor.com/sJeCT3uwsBEAAAAM/horse-dead.gif

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: Road Mangler Experiences

I think this summarizes tire debates within the car community haha... much like "what motor oil should I run?" posts, tires are about 70% data and 30% subjective, so you'll find conflicting info. Reason being, tires behave differently depending on setup, chassis, and driver style/preference. I'm sure by now the OP has watched a horse being beaten long enough to consider RS4's, but they're not the end-all-be-all compound.

Regardless of compound, generally speaking in the dry, a higher TW rating (300+) will deteriorate under race use... at least based off my experience in hotter CA pavement. They just don't have enough heat tolerance and will typically chunk or delaminate if you drive them hard enough. So to limit your options a bit, I'd stick to 200TW regardless.

Full Ass Racing
#455 Piñata Miata
#735 BMDollhÜr 7Turdy5i

Re: Road Mangler Experiences

We ran the Yokohama's A052's at Barber back in February, (our go to tire was out of stock), FWD, 2400lb ish (decently quick Mini Cooper S), 15x6.5, 205's, and I kid you not we smoked the front tires in 4 hours. 2 stints done, throwing tread and rubber off, down to the belt. Camber -1.8ish, toe centered before race. It was so bad we had to borrow wheel/tire set from the buddies who raced next to us (those had half day old Direzza's that sat in a cold garage all winter and lasted us the rest of the race). If I could upload a pic of the Yokohama tire dumpster fire, I would.

I second using the Hankook RS4's above. Also, we have had good luck with Direzza III's, but understand they are nearly impossible to get right now.

19 (edited by bigamonsta 2022-05-09 07:11 PM)

Re: Road Mangler Experiences

Sorry for the late reply to this question

I've done 3 Lemons races and my first was on the A052 on my miata. I've gotten 2 races out of the first set of 6 tires. I won the road mangler raffle and they sent me a set of the AD08 as they didn't have more of the A052 in stock. I ran Hooptiefest in NH on those. The AD08 is not as fast but wore much better. I then won the Roadmangler raffle again- so I'm on a waitlist for some A052s to be made in my tire size.
For a badly driven original motor miata the Yokos work great.

El Capitan of Team Corky
94 Miata covered in cork as Mazda/Toyo Kogyo tribute
2 time tire raffle winner. (So I got that goin for me which is nice)

Re: Road Mangler Experiences

bigamonsta wrote:

Sorry for the late reply to this question

I've done 3 Lemons races and my first was on the A052 on my miata. I've gotten 2 races out of the first set of 6 tires. I won the road mangler raffle and they sent me a set of the AD08 as they didn't have more of the A052 in stock. I ran Hooptiefest in NH on those. The AD08 is not as fast but wore much better. I then won the Roadmangler raffle again- so I'm on a waitlist for some A052s to be made in my tire size.
For a badly driven original motor miata the Yokos work fine. If I was buying tires I probably would've gone with the ones on tirestreets.com  the accelera 651 sport. With all the discounts you can get them to you for around $100 each if you buy a couple sets at a time. Grassroots motorsports used them on their own miata doing a Lemons race and said they were good enough.

https://tirestreets.com/products/accelera-651-sport

I'm not in this to win it and lack enough talent (as a mechanic and driver) to do so so good enough cheap tires are my jam yo.

Tim

:thumbswayup:

"We Got Screwed" NHMS 2017, 4th NHMS 2020,  4th NJMP 2021,
"Judges Choice" NHMS 2021,10th NJMP 2022, 3rd Thompson 2022
#847 Batmobile  aka-"Beulah"  search Squidrope Racing on Facebook

Re: Road Mangler Experiences

bigamonsta wrote:

Sorry for the late reply to this question

I've done 3 Lemons races and my first was on the A052 on my miata. I've gotten 2 races out of the first set of 6 tires. I won the road mangler raffle and they sent me a set of the AD08 as they didn't have more of the A052 in stock. I ran Hooptiefest in NH on those. The AD08 is not as fast but wore much better. I then won the Roadmangler raffle again- so I'm on a waitlist for some A052s to be made in my tire size.
For a badly driven original motor miata the Yokos work great.

I edited this post after squidrope quoted it- another guy on the facebook forums had very bad things to say about the acelera 651 and I felt bad recommending them without using them myself.

El Capitan of Team Corky
94 Miata covered in cork as Mazda/Toyo Kogyo tribute
2 time tire raffle winner. (So I got that goin for me which is nice)

Re: Road Mangler Experiences

Our team, Team Slowtus, runs a 2005 Ford Focus, stock engine, with minor suspension modifications and a 215/45R-17 tire. We ran the A052 in Sonoma in December, and again in March until our wheel (not tire, wheel) got shredded. We had a backup set of wheels mounted with Falken RT660s that were slightly used, mainly for practice sessions and one autocross day. Given our back-to-back experience with the A052 and the RT660 on the same car during the same day, these are my subjective thoughts:

The A052 is super fast. We ran a best lap of 2:19 in traffic on the A052. The subjective feel of the tire is great, and inspires confidence. It sticks and grips, and when it starts to let go, it does so smoothly, which I really like. I don't think the car is heavy enough or we drove hard enough to get the tires greasy. They seem to wear very fast, especially the outside edge, which is because the compound is softer on the outside edge than on the inside edge. I suspect this is for cars that run a good bit of camber. I think these tires would last us a maximum of 4 races, but I think I would replace them after the 3rd race.

Our backup tire, which we've run mainly in the practice sessions, is the RT660. In a practice session, we've had a best lap of 2:17 on this tire. The subjective feel of the tire is that it feels greasy until it warms up, which in my experience, takes a bit longer than the A052. It's not as smooth on the limit as the A052, and has a tiny bit more abrupt "break", but it still inspires confidence. It seems to wear more evenly than the A052, I suspect it's because the compound is the same on both sides of the centerline of the tire. It also seems to take these tires a bit longer to come up to temperature. I think these tires might be able to do 4 races before needing replacement.

While I really love the A052s, I'm torn about purchasing them again. Tire Rack is currently selling them for ~$255 per tire, and the RT660s are about ~$165. I don't think the additional $400/set is really worth it for me, especially considering how close the RT660s are in performance. If the A052s were $60-70 cheaper I would buy them again in a heartbeat.

#22 Gas Relief Team Slowtus Ford Focus

Re: Road Mangler Experiences

We ran Yoko A008s on a Mini because it was the only DOT tire available for a 10 inch wheel.

Fun fact: tires 12" and smaller do not have treadwear ratings.  Run a Mini with 10" wheels and stick it to the man with this treadwear loophole.

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon

Re: Road Mangler Experiences

Continental has also jumped into the 200TW game with their ExtremeContact it's in some limited sizes and looks directly like it's marketed for us yahoo racers in Lemons and so forth. Has anyone tried these?

https://continentaltire.com/sites/default/files/styles/modal/public/media/image/2021-05/ExtremeContactForce_Tread_0.png?itok=5WWNs05L

25 (edited by chaase 2022-06-02 06:15 PM)

Re: Road Mangler Experiences

The problem for a lot of the new tires is cost. For our Saturns, I can get Falken Azensis RT615k+ $135/tire but the Continentals are $171/tire and the Yokohama's are $190/tire. It's not worth the extra cost

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner