Topic: Looking for help with a cage.

There are a couple cars I am going to look at and was wondering if anyone would be willing to look at some pictures of the cages and tell me if it would be a good starting point ot if I should walk away. Appreciate any help and advice.

Re: Looking for help with a cage.

Looking at a few cars as in already caged cars? Unless the car has previously passed a Lemons tech inspection, then walk away. The cage is absolutely something you don't want to skimp on.

Sometimes cages made for other series (Champcar, AER, WRL) will pass muster here, but those cars really don't belong down in the Lemons pit anyways.

You didn't post your location, but there are quality fabricators around the community and around the country that can build a cage for you.

If you want to buy a pre-raced car, the forums here are a good source of candidates that already passed tech.

If you want to build a car from scratch, then just worry about the $500 rule and make sure that the floor pans and frame rails haven't completely rusted to dust.

PS - circle/dirt/derby track cars are almost never good candidates.

1989 Merkur XR4Ti: Project Merkur Space Program - Wins: Class C - Colonel and the Sinkhole 2023 | "Heroic Fix" The Pitt Maneuver 2023 | "Halloween Meets Gasoline" The Pitt Maneuver 2022
1980 Dodge Challenger: Most Extreme eLemonAtion Challenger (Rust Belt Ramble 2021 Dishonorable Mention)

Re: Looking for help with a cage.

Knowing your location will help but you can always take pictures of the vehicles and cages and email them to John Pagel. If you are in my area I am happy to help. We've built 5 cars and never failed due to cage.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

Re: Looking for help with a cage.

Thank you for the replies. I am in Fl on the space coast. It was a car that was being built for a circle track. So maybe I will keep looking, the price was good, and to me it looked ike a decent cage, but maybe it will be better to pass on that.

5 (edited by Lemon_Newton-Metre 2023-11-19 09:42 AM)

Re: Looking for help with a cage.

OP: If you haven't already, read:

“HOW TO NOT FAIL Lemons TECH INSPECTION”.

Read it again. That's a good starting point.

As an aside, yesterday I heard about a recent drag racer's (by report, <12 sec.) car which was made of exhaust tubing(!?!), but which was deliberately camouflaged with foam. And it had run for a while, but needed an upgrade to continue. The entire cage was cut out to start over.

Ask where the inspection hole is.

Re: Looking for help with a cage.

we are building a car now and we are having the cage done, my team mate has a fox body that he bough with a cage, that had to be ripped out and a whole new cage put in it wasted time and money. just have the cage done for you unless if is a Lemons etched car/cage

Team Captain: Highway to Schnell '06 VW GTI, it did run for a very short time! we will get there!
Team member: The Neighbors '89 Foxbody notchback 4 races, finished 2
no wins yet but hoping!

Re: Looking for help with a cage.

chaase wrote:

Knowing your location will help but you can always take pictures of the vehicles and cages and email them to John Pagel. If you are in my area I am happy to help. We've built 5 cars and never failed due to cage.

Chase, did you build the cage or do in in-house. you are not far from me and just looking at some different options.

Team Captain: Highway to Schnell '06 VW GTI, it did run for a very short time! we will get there!
Team member: The Neighbors '89 Foxbody notchback 4 races, finished 2
no wins yet but hoping!

Re: Looking for help with a cage.

etb1009 wrote:
chaase wrote:

Knowing your location will help but you can always take pictures of the vehicles and cages and email them to John Pagel. If you are in my area I am happy to help. We've built 5 cars and never failed due to cage.

Chase, did you build the cage or do in in-house. you are not far from me and just looking at some different options.

The first few cages we did from scratch. We started with the tubing and went from there. The Javelin we went with pre-bent but did the installation ourselves

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

Re: Looking for help with a cage.

chaase wrote:
etb1009 wrote:
chaase wrote:

Knowing your location will help but you can always take pictures of the vehicles and cages and email them to John Pagel. If you are in my area I am happy to help. We've built 5 cars and never failed due to cage.

Chase, did you build the cage or do in in-house. you are not far from me and just looking at some different options.

The first few cages we did from scratch. We started with the tubing and went from there. The Javelin we went with pre-bent but did the installation ourselves


thanks for the info, which pre bent cage company did you use?

Team Captain: Highway to Schnell '06 VW GTI, it did run for a very short time! we will get there!
Team member: The Neighbors '89 Foxbody notchback 4 races, finished 2
no wins yet but hoping!

Re: Looking for help with a cage.

Foxbodygt wrote:

Thank you for the replies. I am in Fl on the space coast. It was a car that was being built for a circle track. So maybe I will keep looking, the price was good, and to me it looked ike a decent cage, but maybe it will be better to pass on that.

If the car was built for circle track absolutely send pictures to John Pagel.  He actively discourages people from starting with one of those.  Another challenge with those cars is they sometimes cut out sections of the crash structure and replace with tubing in the front and rear end, which is not allowed.

Click contact above to get his email.

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon

Re: Looking for help with a cage.

etb1009 wrote:
chaase wrote:
etb1009 wrote:

Chase, did you build the cage or do in in-house. you are not far from me and just looking at some different options.

The first few cages we did from scratch. We started with the tubing and went from there. The Javelin we went with pre-bent but did the installation ourselves


thanks for the info, which pre bent cage company did you use?

Rollcagecomponents

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

Re: Looking for help with a cage.

rb92673 wrote:

[snip] ...
If the car was built for circle track absolutely send pictures to John Pagel.  He actively discourages people from starting with one of those.  Another challenge with those cars is they sometimes cut out sections of the crash structure and replace with tubing in the front and rear end, which is not allowed. ... [snip]

I don't want to hijack this thread, but since you mentioned the above and if you would care to weigh in: cutting crash structure is one thing, but I'm assuming reinforcing or enhancing structure would be OK (inside the original contours if the vehicle), correct?

Re: Looking for help with a cage.

chaase wrote:
etb1009 wrote:
chaase wrote:

The first few cages we did from scratch. We started with the tubing and went from there. The Javelin we went with pre-bent but did the installation ourselves


thanks for the info, which pre bent cage company did you use?

Rollcagecomponents


cool! thanks!

Team Captain: Highway to Schnell '06 VW GTI, it did run for a very short time! we will get there!
Team member: The Neighbors '89 Foxbody notchback 4 races, finished 2
no wins yet but hoping!

Re: Looking for help with a cage.

Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:
rb92673 wrote:

[snip] ...
If the car was built for circle track absolutely send pictures to John Pagel.  He actively discourages people from starting with one of those.  Another challenge with those cars is they sometimes cut out sections of the crash structure and replace with tubing in the front and rear end, which is not allowed. ... [snip]

I don't want to hijack this thread, but since you mentioned the above and if you would care to weigh in: cutting crash structure is one thing, but I'm assuming reinforcing or enhancing structure would be OK (inside the original contours if the vehicle), correct?

Slightly different than what he's talking about, but you want to talk to John Pagel if you have a question.

Part of the issue with "reinforcing" the factory crash structure is that cars are designed to take impacts in specific ways. EG: "the crumple zone". If you tamper with that, even with the thought that you are reinforcing or strengthening the car, you could be incidentally making the car more dangerous.

Imagine someone that has welded pipes between the firewall and bumper to "strengthen" their car. Now imagine that person drives straight into a wall at 80mph. Where do you think that pipe is going? Chances are, straight through the firewall, the driver, the seat, etc.. Not a pretty picture.

Don't take internet advice on this. John Pagel is a consummate professional, which is why his word is the one to seek.

1989 Merkur XR4Ti: Project Merkur Space Program - Wins: Class C - Colonel and the Sinkhole 2023 | "Heroic Fix" The Pitt Maneuver 2023 | "Halloween Meets Gasoline" The Pitt Maneuver 2022
1980 Dodge Challenger: Most Extreme eLemonAtion Challenger (Rust Belt Ramble 2021 Dishonorable Mention)

Re: Looking for help with a cage.

Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:
rb92673 wrote:

[snip] ...
If the car was built for circle track absolutely send pictures to John Pagel.  He actively discourages people from starting with one of those.  Another challenge with those cars is they sometimes cut out sections of the crash structure and replace with tubing in the front and rear end, which is not allowed. ... [snip]

I don't want to hijack this thread, but since you mentioned the above and if you would care to weigh in: cutting crash structure is one thing, but I'm assuming reinforcing or enhancing structure would be OK (inside the original contours if the vehicle), correct?

KeiCarMike said it better than I would. Check with Pagel before you add any reinforcing in the front or rear.

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon

16 (edited by Lemon_Newton-Metre 2023-11-22 03:54 AM)

Re: Looking for help with a cage.

It sounds like you are saying "P.i.a.t.a" ; with which I agree. ;-)

I wasn't clear in posting what I have been considering - my mistake - and moreover, I didn't fully consider the "tubing" statement as being an attempt to replace the crash structure.

I'm considering adding support for - for example - enhanced body parts, but really just enough to hold a fender or panel in place to make sure it stays put, like replacing a support bracket that rusted away.

I have some aluminum tubing, sized like milkshake straws that I can bolt together to provide a mount point - that's the 'tubing' I was considering, not 'cage' type tubing. Hence, my first mistake.