The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Tech → Starter Switch
I have a 2007 Saturn Aura that has an electrical gremlin. My goal is to get it race ready in the next year or so but I’m have a starter issue. When I start the car, the starter won’t turn off. I put a new ECU/ECM in (programmed to the VIN) and the issue still persists.
Can I put a switch in the car to allow power to the starter, start it as normal then flip the switch off? Not sure what the issue is and I have a friend that’s a mechanic and he can’t figure it out.
Most vehicles have a starter relay, if it isn't a sticking relay and it's not a sticking solenoid in the starter then you could add a momentary switch to the starter relay control wire and just use that.
If it's a sticky starter relay or solenoid, well just replace it.
Some here will suggest removing the key cylinder / steering column lock - and internal pieces - and installing a "push to start"system. As I recall, they're attempting to prevent a mishap on track by keeping the internal column locking pieces from jamming the steering column.
Is that what you've done? I can hypothesize a "start" circuit linked to a "run" circuit, instead of being kept separate.' I think less likely than the above scenario.
All of our cars are push button start. I don't know if you have a power off for just the starter on an Aura but you can try.
Resident Saturn Guy and GM Tech for 30 Years here.....I need a few questions answered and I can probably help out.
1 What engine/ transmission?
2 How much wiring has been messed with?
3 Has someone defeated the factory theft deterrent?
4 Is there an aftermarket remote start system?
Some here will suggest removing the key cylinder / steering column lock - and internal pieces - and installing a "push to start"system. As I recall, they're attempting to prevent a mishap on track by keeping the internal column locking pieces from jamming the steering column.
+1 on this... that factory steering lock is one fault away from guaranteeing an accident. I've seen people bump keys with their knees on track, which would guarantee an accident if that steering lock were engaged on track. They're extremely easy to remove and should be disabled on every track/race car IMO. Sorry to digress off the actual question, and it sounds like there are other people in this thread who will be able to actually help, but just wanted to emphasize this "while you're at it."
Some here will suggest removing the key cylinder / steering column lock - and internal pieces - and installing a "push to start"system. As I recall, they're attempting to prevent a mishap on track by keeping the internal column locking pieces from jamming the steering column.
Is that what you've done? I can hypothesize a "start" circuit linked to a "run" circuit, instead of being kept separate.' I think less likely than the above scenario.
Wouldn’t have thought of the column lock. I have not done anything to it yet.
Resident Saturn Guy and GM Tech for 30 Years here.....I need a few questions answered and I can probably help out.
1 What engine/ transmission?
2 How much wiring has been messed with?
3 Has someone defeated the factory theft deterrent?
4 Is there an aftermarket remote start system?
1) 3.6 Liter XE
2) zero amount of wire tampering*
3) not that I am aware of
4) no aftermarket remote start
*only replaced starter (no change with issue)
Most vehicles have a starter relay, if it isn't a sticking relay and it's not a sticking solenoid in the starter then you could add a momentary switch to the starter relay control wire and just use that.
If it's a sticky starter relay or solenoid, well just replace it.
Thanks. New relay is on its way and will replace without delay.
[snip]
Wouldn’t have thought of the column lock. I have not done anything to it yet.
There's a TON of good information on this site, by very experienced builders (which doesn't include me). I've 'stolen' from the best.
Like my favorite: "Mount the seat before planning the cage."
Those discussions, I think, are the MOST helpful in preventing a huge waste of time and money when planning a build.
Kill switch, cylinder lock removal, add-on electric windshield defroster (if you've already removed the stock system without considering full implications) are the rest of my top 5.
jimbooth wrote:[snip]
Wouldn’t have thought of the column lock. I have not done anything to it yet.There's a TON of good information on this site, by very experienced builders (which doesn't include me). I've 'stolen' from the best.
Like my favorite: "Mount the seat before planning the cage."
Those discussions, I think, are the MOST helpful in preventing a huge waste of time and money when planning a build.
Kill switch, cylinder lock removal, add-on electric windshield defroster (if you've already removed the stock system without considering full implications) are the rest of my top 5.
Learning a lot from the forums. Great group and great advice.
in addition to being a safety issue on track it is in the rules that the steering wheel lock must be removed. I just did mine, you would be surprised at all the rules, make sure to read the rules twice, I know for us we don't want to do all this work and travel just to fail tech and not race.
good luck!
in addition to being a safety issue on track it is in the rules that the steering wheel lock must be removed. I just did mine, you would be surprised at all the rules, make sure to read the rules twice, I know for us we don't want to do all this work and travel just to fail tech and not race.
good luck!
Thank you. This is why I’m taking my time on this project.
Resident Saturn Guy and GM Tech for 30 Years here.....I need a few questions answered and I can probably help out.
1 What engine/ transmission?
2 How much wiring has been messed with?
3 Has someone defeated the factory theft deterrent?
4 Is there an aftermarket remote start system?
Can the new ECU take a few cycles to work?
in addition to being a safety issue on track it is in the rules that the steering wheel lock must be removed. I just did mine, you would be surprised at all the rules, make sure to read the rules twice, I know for us we don't want to do all this work and travel just to fail tech and not race.
good luck!
Where in the rules does it specify you need to remove a steering wheel lock? I have driven a dozen cars in Lemons with the stock steering column. I have 18 races in my car with it intact.
Yeah I'm also curious about that, I know that's a rule in champcar but don't recall that from the Lemons rules.
Not saying it's not good to remove, but many cars I can think of unlock as soon as the key is in, not when it is turned on, and i.dontnhear of them failing all the time on public roads causing tons of crashes given the millions of miles driven by everyone.
Can't hurt to pull it though
The PCM has to acknowledge that the car started to uncouple the starter relay or it will time out. If it continually stays engaged it would seem to me that either the relay is stuck or another source such as a remote start is keeping it coupled.If it times out, then the Pcm is not seeing the rpm of the engine (highly unlikely if it runs) or a faulty PCM. Does it start normally?
IIRC, the remove the steering wheel lock requirement was in the Lemons rules but not Chumpcar. I believe that has swapped now, Lemons dropped it and Chump added the rule.
etb1009 wrote:in addition to being a safety issue on track it is in the rules that the steering wheel lock must be removed. I just did mine, you would be surprised at all the rules, make sure to read the rules twice, I know for us we don't want to do all this work and travel just to fail tech and not race.
good luck!
Where in the rules does it specify you need to remove a steering wheel lock? I have driven a dozen cars in Lemons with the stock steering column. I have 18 races in my car with it intact.
sorry I did not see this, I am going to work on our car tonight and I will take a look at the set of rules and get back to you on it
I don't see it in the Lemons rules, and I don't remember it being a requirement in Lemons; I just remember it as a good suggestion.
I haven't read the Chumpcar rules - I remember it from a discussion in this forum.
I apologize, it seems I rear in in an old set of rules and guidelines, I just re read the fresh set I had printed and it is not in there, sucks to be me because based on that I had taken apart the ignition switch and that opened a whole can of worms. oh well. sorry for the mistake.
I apologize, it seems I rear in in an old set of rules and guidelines, I just re read the fresh set I had printed and it is not in there, sucks to be me because based on that I had taken apart the ignition switch and that opened a whole can of worms. oh well. sorry for the mistake.
I did run in a series that had in the rules the steering lock switch needed to be disabled. Doesn't putting the key in do that. ;-)
Every project on my car seems to open a can of worms.
Eeeeehhhhh, ok, yes, a can of worms may have been opened; but you're potentially resolving several problems that _may_ have taken you off track:
1. unable to restart due to a loose, dodgy lock cylinder, and
2. steering column lock pieces have been removed, so you're not going to hit the wall because you can't turn the steering column. (There may be other reasons you hit the wall, like blowing a tire, running out of talent, etc., but not because those little pieces fell apart and jammed up the steering column.)
That's why I think it's a great suggestion, regardless whether it's in the rules or not.
One of my candidate is a "city" car, with over 270k miles, not an over-the-road highway beast, with hundred+ miles each day. Probably 4 miles each trip, maybe. Think of the number of start cycles before I bought it, by however many drivers.
You'd change filters, and the oil, right? Brake fluid, pads? That stuff makes it run and stop.
How about making sure it'll start, and:
*** that you can turn corners whenever you absolutely need to while at speed***?
(Yeah, ok, barring a mechanical failure, which is a risk we all accept by getting on track)
That's why I think it's a GREAT suggestion, rule or not. And, your already resolving anything else you uncovered by taking it apart. That's a Win - Win - Win for me.
etb1009 wrote:I apologize, it seems I rear in in an old set of rules and guidelines, I just re read the fresh set I had printed and it is not in there, sucks to be me because based on that I had taken apart the ignition switch and that opened a whole can of worms. oh well. sorry for the mistake.
I did run in a series that had in the rules the steering lock switch needed to be disabled. Doesn't putting the key in do that. ;-)
Every project on my car seems to open a can of worms.
Putting the key in and then turning on the ignition clears the locking mechanism. I would remove it solely because you have to turn the car off to fuel. Imagine the column lock failing while in the hot pit.
rb92673 wrote:etb1009 wrote:I apologize, it seems I rear in in an old set of rules and guidelines, I just re read the fresh set I had printed and it is not in there, sucks to be me because based on that I had taken apart the ignition switch and that opened a whole can of worms. oh well. sorry for the mistake.
I did run in a series that had in the rules the steering lock switch needed to be disabled. Doesn't putting the key in do that. ;-)
Every project on my car seems to open a can of worms.
Putting the key in and then turning on the ignition clears the locking mechanism. I would remove it solely because you have to turn the car off to fuel. Imagine the column lock failing while in the hot pit.
I am happy that I did it for all those reason. now to figure out what I need to tap into to install a push button start.
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