Topic: Mounting seat

Hey all, we are mounting an OMP seat it’s on all OMP brackets and Hardwear, I know that it has to be mounted within 6 inches of the roll cage otherwise you need a back brace, my question is where to mount it when it is on sliders, do you just mount it within 6 inches with the seat all the way back?

Thanks for any help!

Team Captain: Highway to Schnell '06 VW GTI, it will run, we hope!
Team member: The Neighbors "89 Foxbody notchback 3 races, finished 2
no wins yet but hoping!

2 (edited by chaase 2024-03-15 02:18 PM)

Re: Mounting seat

If you need full throw, make it so the seat back is right up to the main hoop when the seat is fully extended back.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
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Re: Mounting seat

chaase wrote:

If you need full throw, make it so the seat back is right up to the main hoop when the seat is fully extended back.

great, thanks, that's what I was thinking I would do but wanted to double check

Team Captain: Highway to Schnell '06 VW GTI, it will run, we hope!
Team member: The Neighbors "89 Foxbody notchback 3 races, finished 2
no wins yet but hoping!

4 (edited by rb92673 2024-03-15 04:11 PM)

Re: Mounting seat

Mount it where you get the range of motion you need for your shortest to tallest driver.  Mine is where the stock seat rails went.  You can mount it at an angle so that the seat rises as you move it forward.

You will need a sliding seat brace.  Here is an example: https://pyrotectstore.com/product/sport … ack-brace/

Mine is similar made out of square tubing welded to the cage where the straps attach.  Make sure the piece that contacts the seat has enough surface area that it wont pierce the seat.

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon

Re: Mounting seat

I see a number of suggestions here to mount the seat before planning the cage. I didn't get whether you're doing that now, or have already built the cage.

If you share, I'll be interested in your experiences with your project.

Re: Mounting seat

Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:

I see a number of suggestions here to mount the seat before planning the cage. I didn't get whether you're doing that now, or have already built the cage.

If you share, I'll be interested in your experiences with your project.

THAT. get the seat in and set the cage for the tallest driver. Your helmet cannot be closer than 2 inches from any bar. We run a Gen III f-body, we are all around 6'1"-2" Our seat is basically on the floor. It backs right up to the cross bar.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Mounting seat

Mr.Yuck wrote:
Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:

I see a number of suggestions here to mount the seat before planning the cage. I didn't get whether you're doing that now, or have already built the cage.

If you share, I'll be interested in your experiences with your project.

THAT. get the seat in and set the cage for the tallest driver. Your helmet cannot be closer than 2 inches from any bar. We run a Gen III f-body, we are all around 6'1"-2" Our seat is basically on the floor. It backs right up to the cross bar.



hey so, this is the first car we are building that will have sliders, (this is a mk5 GTI) the other car has the seat hard mounted with no adjustment able (foxbody) the tallest driver 6'2" to the shortest about 5'8" so we were trying the silder. the cage is in and before having the cage installed we mounted the seat close to where we wanted it but had the cage builder, build it so that we could play with it a bit. worst case we will hard mount the seat but thought we would give this a try. happy to share my experience so we can all learn from my mistakes lol.

P.S. the cage builder is JPC Fabrication in stroutsberg PA. they did a fantastic job.

\

Team Captain: Highway to Schnell '06 VW GTI, it will run, we hope!
Team member: The Neighbors "89 Foxbody notchback 3 races, finished 2
no wins yet but hoping!

Re: Mounting seat

We found our Sliders have way more throw than we need so it was easy.  Tallest is 6-1 shortest 5-9 I think

We mounted our cage with maybe 1 click to go back on the seat in case we ever have a 6-2 driver.

Once the seat touches the cage there is no point in it being able to slide back further (I think ours could slide maybe 1" beyond cage but we have plenty of forwards slide so haven't messed with it)  I think we just bought the commercially sold bracket and slider for our car from the seat manufacturer (corbeu) bolted it up and where like oh hey this is plenty of room.

In a car with a lower roof we likely would have needed to figure out how to make it lower.

I have heard of people mounting the seat Sliders on like a slope so seat effectively raises when slid foward.  Might be nice if you have a huge range of driver heights, we didn't need to worry about this with only a 4in spread.  We can all see just fine.  Some teMs appear to use foam "booster cusions" to help short drivers.

Another thing is when finding seat positions might wanna put on full gear or at least shoes and helmet/hans then belt in fully.   Our tallest driver ended up racing 2 clicks foward from where he originally Said he would sit.  Not a big deal for us as our shortest driver still only has the seat like 4" from the harness bar.  It would suck for your short driver to end up too far from the bar and get called out trying to get on track.  It's nice to have a margin of error and not plan on running all the way up to the 6in max (or if you do, maybe get the brace)

Re: Mounting seat

etb1009 wrote:

[snip] the cage is in and before having the cage installed we mounted the seat close to where we wanted it but had the cage builder, build it so that we could play with it a bit. [snip]

That's good information.

I'm endlessly curious:

Was pre-mounting the seat as a result of:
1. The cage builder's suggestion, or
2. Pre-Lemons team knowledge, or
2. A result of discussions at a Lemons race, or
4. From the knowledge base of either this forum or the F-book group?

The reasons I'm asking is because I'm curious if this advice has become acknowledged as "best practices", and if so, how widespread it is.

Same for the suggestion about sliders at a vertical angle if possible; I've also seen that numerous times.

Re: Mounting seat

etb1009 wrote:
Mr.Yuck wrote:
Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:

I see a number of suggestions here to mount the seat before planning the cage. I didn't get whether you're doing that now, or have already built the cage.

If you share, I'll be interested in your experiences with your project.

THAT. get the seat in and set the cage for the tallest driver. Your helmet cannot be closer than 2 inches from any bar. We run a Gen III f-body, we are all around 6'1"-2" Our seat is basically on the floor. It backs right up to the cross bar.



hey so, this is the first car we are building that will have sliders, (this is a mk5 GTI) the other car has the seat hard mounted with no adjustment able (foxbody) the tallest driver 6'2" to the shortest about 5'8" so we were trying the silder. the cage is in and before having the cage installed we mounted the seat close to where we wanted it but had the cage builder, build it so that we could play with it a bit. worst case we will hard mount the seat but thought we would give this a try. happy to share my experience so we can all learn from my mistakes lol.

P.S. the cage builder is JPC Fabrication in stroutsberg PA. they did a fantastic job.

\

Just make sure your tallest driver's melon is 2" away from the cage and you should be fine.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Mounting seat

Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:
etb1009 wrote:

[snip] the cage is in and before having the cage installed we mounted the seat close to where we wanted it but had the cage builder, build it so that we could play with it a bit. [snip]

That's good information.

I'm endlessly curious:

Was pre-mounting the seat as a result of:
1. The cage builder's suggestion, or
2. Pre-Lemons team knowledge, or
2. A result of discussions at a Lemons race, or
4. From the knowledge base of either this forum or the F-book group?

The reasons I'm asking is because I'm curious if this advice has become acknowledged as "best practices", and if so, how widespread it is.

Same for the suggestion about sliders at a vertical angle if possible; I've also seen that numerous times.


so it was a combination of all of that and the time frame. we knew we needed the cage built and they had one opening and our building time leading up to the appointment was limited so we got it in the best we could. if we missed the cage appointment than there was no way we were going to be able to have the car ready for pit trace. we have looked at this forum, the FB Pagel page, the  unofficial FD Lemons page, internet, videos and things we saw and talked to other racers about at the 3 races we did last year, in adding we have another car that my buddy owns that we raced last year and we are trying to do it different from the things we learned with that car which was the first we had done.

Team Captain: Highway to Schnell '06 VW GTI, it will run, we hope!
Team member: The Neighbors "89 Foxbody notchback 3 races, finished 2
no wins yet but hoping!

Re: Mounting seat

I have to also imagine that things go differently depending on how hard your car is to cage and how tight the seating is.

Like if you are caging a small 2 seater for example a hard top miata and keeping the cage inside the bounds of the hard top (many people push the roof higher on these to get helmet clearance) or someone said the c4 corvette is very hard to cage due to the height of some rail.  Either way on these cars you may be very limited on where you can put the cage especially if trying to fit tall drivers and a slider.  I imagine that takes a lot of planning.

If you have an easy car (4 door 4 seater with headroom for example) all we had to do with the seat was bolt in a commercially available sear slider and rails to the factory mount no fab needed.  Then just marked tallest and shortest driver locations on a slider with a sharpie.  Since we welded our own cage in we didn't have to communicate with a cage builder.

If I had to tell a cage builder where my seat goes in an mg midget or how to fit a 6'7" driver it would have been a different experience

Re: Mounting seat

Mr.Yuck wrote:
etb1009 wrote:
Mr.Yuck wrote:

THAT. get the seat in and set the cage for the tallest driver. Your helmet cannot be closer than 2 inches from any bar. We run a Gen III f-body, we are all around 6'1"-2" Our seat is basically on the floor. It backs right up to the cross bar.



hey so, this is the first car we are building that will have sliders, (this is a mk5 GTI) the other car has the seat hard mounted with no adjustment able (foxbody) the tallest driver 6'2" to the shortest about 5'8" so we were trying the silder. the cage is in and before having the cage installed we mounted the seat close to where we wanted it but had the cage builder, build it so that we could play with it a bit. worst case we will hard mount the seat but thought we would give this a try. happy to share my experience so we can all learn from my mistakes lol.

P.S. the cage builder is JPC Fabrication in stroutsberg PA. they did a fantastic job.

\

Just make sure your tallest driver's melon is 2" away from the cage and you should be fine.

This 2” distance you keep suggesting is inaccurate

"THE WONDERMENT CONSORTIUM"
Everything dies baby that's a fact,
But maybe everything that dies someday comes back?

Re: Mounting seat

etb1009 wrote:
Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:
etb1009 wrote:

[snip] the cage is in and before having the cage installed we mounted the seat close to where we wanted it but had the cage builder, build it so that we could play with it a bit. [snip]

That's good information.

I'm endlessly curious:

Was pre-mounting the seat as a result of:
1. The cage builder's suggestion, or
2. Pre-Lemons team knowledge, or
2. A result of discussions at a Lemons race, or
4. From the knowledge base of either this forum or the F-book group?

The reasons I'm asking is because I'm curious if this advice has become acknowledged as "best practices", and if so, how widespread it is.

Same for the suggestion about sliders at a vertical angle if possible; I've also seen that numerous times.


so it was a combination of all of that and the time frame. we knew we needed the cage built and they had one opening and our building time leading up to the appointment was limited so we got it in the best we could. if we missed the cage appointment than there was no way we were going to be able to have the car ready for pit trace. we have looked at this forum, the FB Pagel page, the  unofficial FD Lemons page, internet, videos and things we saw and talked to other racers about at the 3 races we did last year, in adding we have another car that my buddy owns that we raced last year and we are trying to do it different from the things we learned with that car which was the first we had done.

^This is an excellent explanation. And i totally understand: "we got it in the best we could." - that makes perfect sense to me. At least _something_ in the seat space to visualize clearance for measuring out the cage. Thanks for that.

Re: Mounting seat

Zacks - also an excellent explanation of considerations - thanks.

Re: Mounting seat

derekste wrote:
Mr.Yuck wrote:
etb1009 wrote:


hey so, this is the first car we are building that will have sliders, (this is a mk5 GTI) the other car has the seat hard mounted with no adjustment able (foxbody) the tallest driver 6'2" to the shortest about 5'8" so we were trying the silder. the cage is in and before having the cage installed we mounted the seat close to where we wanted it but had the cage builder, build it so that we could play with it a bit. worst case we will hard mount the seat but thought we would give this a try. happy to share my experience so we can all learn from my mistakes lol.

P.S. the cage builder is JPC Fabrication in stroutsberg PA. they did a fantastic job.

\

Just make sure your tallest driver's melon is 2" away from the cage and you should be fine.

This 2” distance you keep suggesting is inaccurate

what is it?

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Mounting seat

2 in from top of cage to top of helmet

So if you use 1.75 tubing then .25 below bottom of tube

18 (edited by Lemon_Newton-Metre 2024-03-17 08:01 PM)

Re: Mounting seat

^ This.

But as I've said before, the text of the rule is unclear in its interpretation.

3.5.1 [snip]
"On all sides, all drivers’ helmeted heads must be at least two inches inside the area enclosed by the cage."
[snip]

First: the cage defines a VOLUME, not an AREA.
Second: the volume enclosed by the cage - and here's where I agree with Mr. Yuck, the "(whatever it is)" enclosed by the cage ACTUALLY DOES MEAN INSIDE the cage.

Though, as interpreted for so long, it's the exterior dimensions the rule contemplates, not the interior.

I have suggested changing the words to something like:

" 2" below the volume defined by the exterior dimensions of the cage (meaning the outside surface of the cage) " .

(I had posted a more succinct sentence, but can't remember it right now - though it's in my posting history).

That's a little more clear than just referencing "the broomstick rule"; where a stick is laid on the top of the cage, and the helmet can't come within 2" of the stick.

(There's got to be a better way to check, especially when the cage is installed close to the inside surface of the car; but that's not my area of responsibility - or expertise ).

19 (edited by Zacks 2024-03-17 09:30 PM)

Re: Mounting seat

Fwiw The "how not to fail" doc is pretty clear in their interpretation.  Although it only pictures the top and doesn't reference sides or anything.

And yeah dunno how they check it, our cage is almost touching the roof lol.  We subscribe to the theory of exceed minimum rules so it's obvious you're legal.

Re: Mounting seat

Zacks wrote:

2 in from top of cage to top of helmet

So if you use 1.75 tubing then .25 below bottom of tube


I wouldn't want my head 1/4" away from the cage.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Mounting seat

Mr.Yuck wrote:

I wouldn't want my head 1/4" away from the cage.

Yeah people can make judgments about personal safety ect but I was talking about what is required per rules.

However you actually bring up a good point that you wouldn't wanna be too close to the actual cage piping.  Not just because safety but remember you have to install roll cage padding.  This padding is like 1/2 to 3/4" thick I think (from memory didn't measure)  so when planning a cage might wanna test fit with the padding or at least factor that in.

Re: Mounting seat

Mr.Yuck wrote:

I wouldn't want my head 1/4" away from the cage.

Good point!

But: remember you'll be in the seat, and how thick any 'ears' the seat may have, so even the helmet shouldn't be that close. And I can't imagine a cage builder putting another halo cross tube directly over the seat track - I have to think it would be in the middle, front-to-back, to give extra support and height, but not that close to the seat.

Anyway, I looked at the rules of:
The-Series-Which-Shall-Not-Be-Named,

... and their rules state that when belted, "the top of the driver’s helmet does not extend above the centerline of the main hoop. (my clarification: any driver);

and that's even closer to any crush / deform space in the case of a rollover, flip, or tilt.

But it may be easier to inspect.

Re: Mounting seat

this is all fantastic info and has been helpful, I hope it helps other also.

thanks all

Team Captain: Highway to Schnell '06 VW GTI, it will run, we hope!
Team member: The Neighbors "89 Foxbody notchback 3 races, finished 2
no wins yet but hoping!