Topic: chump car broke it off in us

Yes, we strayed.  I couldn't resist.  The track is shouting distance from my house.  Never again though.

Cliff notes:  cut the race from 24 to 14 hours.  No refunds and no rebate.  Dicks

P.O. Box 1541 Morgan Hill, CA 95038 ChumpCar World Series info@ThatOtherSeries.com
14 April 2010
Memo: To All Nashville ChumpCar Teams
From: ChumpCar World Series Management
Subject: Nashville Event Format Change
Greetings, Chumps!
We closed registration for the Nashville event last Friday and we received a total of 21 team entry
applications for the Nashville-9 ChumpCar event. Here’s the final entry list:
Team Name Captain
Property Devaluation Racing Brian Pollock
Property Devaluation Racing II Brian Pollock
White Lightning Daniel Vaught
EggBoy Racing Jeff Krekeler
Ramrod Racing Michael Chisek
His Panic Racing Vince Rosenthal
Team Fustercluck Adam Thomas
Blitzen Benz Rusty Tredinnick
Son of a Blitzen Ned Gallaher
Omayonesa Omar Salcido
Kentucky Spirits Gene Young
The Rotary Rotards Les Law
Team Top Gear Bob Rutzky
Team Skid-Mark Brian Yorks
Sooper Duper Robert Drake
Team Red Rocket Bill Kropff
Team Confederate Yankees Michael Eddings
Pure Luxe Rusty Bittle
Team Non Sequitur Edward Knapp
Moneyshot Motorsports Mitch Lockler
Flying Chicken Donnie Weymer
Then we started calling to confirm entries and payments and we received 5 cancellations. That
brought the race total to 16 cars. I’d be lying if I said that I was happy with that number, as we had
higher expectations for the race. Personally, I was hoping for 30 solid entries. Regardless,
ChumpCar is 100%, solidly committed to holding the Nashville event! The issue, as with any
endurance race, is that we all know we’re going to have a few DNF’s and we want to make sure that
we have more than three cars running at the finish. After all, we’ve got more than 3 trophies to hand
out! However, the longer the race, the more DNF’s we’ll have.
So, what do we do? Do we cancel the event and make teams, like yours, which are ready to race
pay the price for those that didn't sign-up or cancelled? Do we penalize those teams, like yours, who
are committed to ChumpCar? Do we postpone the event and see what kind of date we can get later
in the year – like August or September? Or, do we continue with the event, as planned?
P.O. Box 1541 Morgan Hill, CA 95038 ChumpCar World Series info@ThatOtherSeries.com
I don't know about you, but I'm a racer. Yes, I'm a business man, but still (and always) a racer. And I
know that Lloyd, Erik, Ron, Cathy and Dave are all racers, too. If there is a silver-lining to this
situation, it’s that ChumpCar has already faced this same issue – with our event at Rockingham.
So, just like we did with Rockingham, we’ve chosen to take the high-road and support our teams,
and that means continue with the event. HOWEVER, we are experienced enough to know (as are
most of you) that a race with 16 cars is fine if it's a 30-lap sprint race; but, a 24 hour race with 16
cars is not only stupid, it's boring, and when there's boredom in a motorsports race, there are errors
and accidents. Because of that, ChumpCar's management team pulled from its experience at
Rockingham and looked at various race format options, including changing the race into our normal
Double-7 Enduro format. The problem with that format is that it does not allow for night racing, and
that's half (or more of) the fun of endurance races.
So, the best and only possible option was to create a "different" format that engaged a shorter race
(to keep the competition high and attrition low), and create a timeframe that allowed both daytime
and nighttime racing. A non-stop twelve hours would make for a great race but it wouldn't equate to
the dollars-per-seat-time that ChumpCar teams pay for when they enter a Double-7 Enduro. (The
entry fee for a ChumpCar Double-7 and a ChumpCar 24-hour event are the same. We don't
increase the price for the latter.) In the end, ChumpCar's management team agreed on a 14-hour
race… the same seat-time as in a Double-7... the same value as a Double-7… the same solution we
used at Rockingham (that worked extremely well!).
As for what hours to run the event -- yes, we could have started at noon and raced until 2:00am, but
who wants to end at 2:00am? Start at 4:00pm and run until 6:00am, or start at 6:00pm and run until
8:00am? Either of those are a total waste of Saturday and there's very little daytime driving. The
only logical timeframe was to run the race so we'd get as close to equal daylight and nighttime racing
as possible, and end the race at a decent hour -- an hour that we can either party afterwards, or go
to bed and get a good night's rest. That said, the 9:00am - 11:00pm timeframe was agreed to.
This decision was also made in consideration of team expenses and safety. Local teams can now
pack-up after the event and head home -- no later than if they were running in the 'Main' at any local
short track. Travel teams can get a hotel room Saturday night and get a fresh (and safe) start out of
town Sunday morning.
Here’s the revised event schedule:
Friday: 3:00pm – 7:00pm Registration
4:00pm – 7:00pm Safety, Tech & Theme Inspection
4:00pm – 7:00pm Driver’s Gear Inspection
5:00pm – 6:00pm Driver’s School
Saturday: 7:00am Gates Open
8:00am – 8:30am Last Chance Driver’s Gear Inspection
8:30am – 8:50am Drivers Meeting
9:00am Parade Laps and Start Race
11:00pm Checkered Flag
11:05pm Post-race inspection and Awards Ceremony
Additionally, we’re going to have to modify the race purse: $750 1st; $500 2nd; and, $250 $3rd based
on a very small pool of funds generated by the event. Hey! It’s still better than running for a plastic
trophy!
P.O. Box 1541 Morgan Hill, CA 95038 ChumpCar World Series info@ThatOtherSeries.com
Because you paid to run “The Nashville 9” – a full 24-hour endurance event, ChumpCar wants to
make sure that you and your team don’t feel like you got the short end of the dipstick. Sure, a 14-
hour race is the same seat-time as our Double-7 Enduro (which costs the same entry fee)… and,
yes, there’s still quite a lot of nighttime racing to enjoy. However, it’s just not the same and we know
it. Therefore, by means of a correction, ChumpCar will issue your team a $250 entry fee discount
(that’s ½-price!) and a letter of guaranteed acceptance at any future ChumpCar’s event… any event,
be it Homestead, Sebring, Roebling Road, Texas Motors Speedway (24 hour race), Hallet (24 hour
race), Harris Hill… wherever you want to race.
This is ChumpCar’s way of thanking you for your support and flexibility. We apologize for the format
change and appreciate your understanding.
ChumpCar feels bad about having to re-format this event, but there were very few options left to us
and we didn't want to cancel the race. I think that it's important for everyone to remember that
ChumpCar (just like any race track owner, race promoter or series organizer) puts the opportunity
out there for the teams and drivers to come and participate. That's all we can do. We present the
opportunity. It's up the teams to sign-up, commit and follow-through. Neither ChumpCar, nor
Nashville Superspeedway, can force the teams to show up and race.
I look forward to meeting all of you at the track and for a great event! We’re going to have great
time, regardless!
All the best –
John Condren
“…just another chump”

Re: chump car broke it off in us

That's motor racing.

You are only entitled to the space you occupy.

Re: chump car broke it off in us

Well... to be fair to them... I'd imagine they're loosing their shirts with such a small field.

Pendejo Engineering "Captain" - 1991 Alfa 164
1983 Shaguar XJ-S V-12 "The Two Ton Miata"
1995 Mercedes S600 V-12  - First car ever CLAIMED by JAY!
1980 Maserati Quattroporte - Judge's Choice

Re: chump car broke it off in us

magnusracing wrote:

Well... to be fair to them... I'd imagine they're loosing their shirts with such a small field.

that is 100% their problem.  you know what your getting into organizing events.

Mike Peters
Former rotary brat pioneer.
3.17.08 Jalopnik Hoon of the day.  #hasbeen
1984 Dodge Rampage, A few SHO engines, a Mustang 8.8, and a lot of hot glue going on now.

Re: chump car broke it off in us

doesn't surprise me......really 16 cars paying $1k each or $16k total....do you really think anyone can rent and STAFF a race track for 24+ hours straight over a weekend for that amount..NO WAY....  I know for a fact that some 1 day DE events cost more than that!!! 

Racing is NOT cheap....ambulance, corner workers, registration, corrupt judges, tech inspectors all cost money and LOTS of it....

There is NO WAY chumpcar made any $$$ at Infineon in December....even if all 25 cars paid....  they still lost their shirts....

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2

6 (edited by edward 2010-04-14 10:32 PM)

Re: chump car broke it off in us

$250 off your next race... that's...  dare I say it ... Chump change smile

Edward

Edward
Angry Hamster Racing
Angry Hamster Racing on Facebook

Re: chump car broke it off in us

Yup, them not making enough money is not my problem.  You have to take risks in business and it takes money make money.  Where is the limit that I shouldn't be pissed?  Cut the race in half instead of a third?  Make it a 2 hour sprint race in an autocross parking lot?  Them trying to sell it like it's a good deal and they are great guys for making this sacrifice makes it that much worse.  Bottom line is they cut 10 hours of seat time.  Bait and switch.

They should have cancelled the race after the first pay deadline.  They then extended the deadline and still didn't get anymore cars.  Then they take a whole day out of the event.  I think it's complete bullshit.  I could have been in New Orleans this weekend having an awesome time.  Never again will I cheat on you Lemons.  Please forgive me.

Re: chump car broke it off in us

Each experience is different.  We ran the 24 hour event with them at VIR and had a great time.  I think we had just over 30 cars and like two black flags the whole weekend.  Great racing for sure.

Also their live real time timing and scoring rocked the house.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: chump car broke it off in us

bob-e wrote:

Cliff notes:  cut the race from 24 to 14 hours.  No refunds and no rebate.  Dicks
<snip>
Therefore, by means of a correction, ChumpCar will issue your team a $250 entry fee discount
(that’s ½-price!) and a letter of guaranteed acceptance at any future ChumpCar’s event… any event,

That looks like a rebate to me.

Besides, would you have entered the race if it were originally advertised as a twin-7? I'm betting you would have especially since "the track is shouting distance from [your] house."

Also, think of it this way:
A) there is an equally good chance that your POS will only last the first 3 hours before dieing a wonderful death as there was if you were still running a full 24 hour event.
B) You have a better chance of your car making it to the finish.
C) There is a better chance of getting a podium/payout position.

So in closing, pull up you panties (no offense intended to any ladies [or gents] that wear panties), put on your racing suit and enjoy the race.

Justin
Team Cardorks: #901 Amtrack E36 / # 902 Philly E30 / #903 Integra TypeArrr!
Driving something, somewhere.

Re: chump car broke it off in us

oneday wrote:

That looks like a rebate to me.

Rebates can be cashed in - this is a coupon which requires another purchase.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: chump car broke it off in us

^ Fair enough. It's still something. bob-e made it sound like they said, "Hey, we're changing the game. Screw you guys." Which they did not.

Justin
Team Cardorks: #901 Amtrack E36 / # 902 Philly E30 / #903 Integra TypeArrr!
Driving something, somewhere.

Re: chump car broke it off in us

oneday wrote:
bob-e wrote:

Cliff notes:  cut the race from 24 to 14 hours.  No refunds and no rebate.  Dicks
<snip>
Therefore, by means of a correction, ChumpCar will issue your team a $250 entry fee discount
(that’s ½-price!) and a letter of guaranteed acceptance at any future ChumpCar’s event… any event,

That looks like a rebate to me.

Besides, would you have entered the race if it were originally advertised as a twin-7? I'm betting you would have especially since "the track is shouting distance from [your] house."

Also, think of it this way:
A) there is an equally good chance that your POS will only last the first 3 hours before dieing a wonderful death as there was if you were still running a full 24 hour event.
B) You have a better chance of your car making it to the finish.
C) There is a better chance of getting a podium/payout position.

So in closing, pull up you panties (no offense intended to any ladies [or gents] that wear panties), put on your racing suit and enjoy the race.

Would I have entered it if it were a twin 7?  Probably.  Would I have entered it if it was advertised as a single 14?  Probably not. 

There is no rebate.  That's a coupon that requires getting bait and switched on a future race.

So since your car would have a better chance of finishing, you wouldn't mind if Lemons changed their race to a 4 hour enduro for the same price?  I don't see how there is a better chance of podium.  Horrible logic.  You must work for Chump.

Re: chump car broke it off in us

oneday wrote:

^ Fair enough. It's still something.

If / when they go under - it's nothing.  I've said it before, they are working on the wrong business model - "We want to cater to the _serious_ racer who only spends $500 on his car."

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: chump car broke it off in us

bob-e wrote:

You must work for Chump.

Nope. But I had a blast at the VIR 24 and look forward to running in more of their events.

bob-e wrote:

Would I have entered it if it were a twin 7?  Probably.  Would I have entered it if it was advertised as a single 14?  Probably not.

Really? I know I'd be hard pressed to pass up a 14 hour enduro close to my house.

bob-e wrote:

There is no rebate.  That's a coupon that requires getting bait and switched on a future race.

I conceded that it is, in fact a coupon, not a rebate after RobL made that statement.

bob-e wrote:

So since your car would have a better chance of finishing, you wouldn't mind if Lemons changed their race to a 4 hour enduro for the same price?

Of course I would mind if a seven hour got shortened to four with no compensation or considerations, but that is not what happened. A 24, that costs the same to enter as a 2x7 (right?), got truncated to 14, which I admit, sucks. Even Chump admitted it sucked and they put out an offer for future races to help ease the pain of the shorter than advertised event. I'm sure I wouldn't be all smiles and praise about it if I were entered, but I would certainly not lambaste the organization and piss on them for all future events. They did put on a very good event at VIR so my experience with them is vastly different than yours is.

RobL wrote:

If / when they go under - it's nothing.  I've said it before, they are working on the wrong business model - "We want to cater to the _serious_ racer who only spends $500 on his car."

Do I think Chump will last? Eh, not with small fields and pricey tracks, but they should last the rest of this year...so use the coupon for another upcoming race and enjoy it.

Hmm, I wonder if the $250 off coupon is transferable? I'll give you $50 for it since you won't be using it, bob-e ;^)

Justin
Team Cardorks: #901 Amtrack E36 / # 902 Philly E30 / #903 Integra TypeArrr!
Driving something, somewhere.

Re: chump car broke it off in us

Never seen someone complain so much about getting to go race lol.  I'd love to have that event 1hr from my door.

16 (edited by Troy 2010-04-15 06:43 AM)

Re: chump car broke it off in us

We did a DE at MSRH last year and it was like $10-12k.

Track rent runs around $1000 an hour for the first 8ish hours just for the track time.  They would shut the track down 30 minutes to an hour for Lunch.

Additional track time only cost the price of the safety workers.  So extra time was not that bad after the initial rental.

By going to a single 14 hour race in one day, they probably cut their track rent bill by about 40%.

We have been considering the 24 Hour Chump Race at TMS but have not committed.

Three Main Considerations to race:

1. True 24 race

2. Proximity: it's close

3. Unlimited drivers: we can run 10 drivers and still get a couple hours of seat
    time and keep the cost down.

Reason Not to race:

1. Chump Race: I have mixed feelings

2. Close to Eagles Canyon: car might not be up for it

3. True 24 Hour race means more tires, gas and maybe brakes plus general
    wear and tear.

A couple of interesting side notes from the Chump letter:

ChumpCar's management team pulled from its experience at Rockingham and looked at various race format options, including changing the race into our normal Double-7 Enduro format.

Chump was all big on promoting More 24 hours races.  A few races into their season and now a Double 7 is their Normal format.

Additionally, we’re going to have to modify the race purse: $750 1st; $500 2nd; and, $250 $3rd based on a very small pool of funds generated by the event. Hey! It’s still better than running for a plastic trophy!

They were also big on giving out more prize money and money to charity.

Sounds to me like they are scrambling to keep Chump afloat.  Small fields do not pay the bills.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: chump car broke it off in us

double 7s would be so much better than a single 14.
2 chances to win and paddock parties at night
it's not the same.

I wouldn't have a problem if they would have been up front that this was a possibility.  It wouldn't have been hard since they just did the same thing at Rockingham

Re: chump car broke it off in us

VKZ24 wrote:

blah blah blah and like two black flags the whole weekend.

Where's the fun in that?

"This is the scene where I get shot," Bronson said. "I have these little squibs that explode to make it look like bullets are hitting." "Fascinating," said Bergman. "I never knew how they did that." "You mean," asked Bronson, "you don't use machine guns in your movies?"

Re: chump car broke it off in us

http://www.mercedsunstar.com/2009/07/23 … ho-he.html

Re: chump car broke it off in us

That is still cheap for the amount of track time you are getting, considering you racing wheel to wheel.  With less cars out there you will be able to stay in the line and go faster.  Sounds like fun, maybe less fender benders, and you will get some good seat time.

Infinity Q45 #47 @ Gator-a-Rama 09 & #147 @ Nelson Ledges 09
Datsun 510 #102 @ High Plains Raceway 10 & #102 @ Mid-America Motorplex 10
Datsun 280Z #55 @ Autobahn 10

Re: chump car broke it off in us

Judge Jonny wrote:
VKZ24 wrote:

blah blah blah and like two black flags the whole weekend.

Where's the fun in that?

It was closer to 10 I think...I know the one RX-7 had four or five for their RobL style, time-release exhaust attachments.

The fun was in good, (mostly) clean racing. Door-to-door & wheel-to-wheel. No body did anything stupid to anyone else--at least not anything stupid enough to warrant a black flag. Sure, people went two-off, four-off, did 360s, 270s (not that I would know anything about any of those occurrences) and traded some paint. It was racing. It was fun.

Yes, it was lacking the pomp & circumstance and the spectacle that is a good Lemons punishment, so the off track amusement was lacking...but on the track...it was a good time.

Justin
Team Cardorks: #901 Amtrack E36 / # 902 Philly E30 / #903 Integra TypeArrr!
Driving something, somewhere.

Re: chump car broke it off in us

oneday wrote:
Judge Jonny wrote:
VKZ24 wrote:

blah blah blah and like two black flags the whole weekend.

Where's the fun in that?

It was closer to 10 I think...I know the one RX-7 had four or five for their RobL style, time-release exhaust attachments.

Wait a minute here... Well...  In my defense...  Oh...  Nevermind...

http://schumachertaxiservice.com/images/triplefp.jpg

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: chump car broke it off in us

The Chump race at VIR was great.  Super track!   I missed the big field of cars.  Loved the full 24hr race and mega seat time.  Missed the off track fun.  Would do it again anytime.  Looking forward to Lemons racing at CMP.  We had two new drivers at the race and will have to re-education them (no more wheels off!!!)

Not all who wander are lost.

Re: chump car broke it off in us

oneday wrote:

The fun was in good, (mostly) clean racing.

Boring!

We'll have to make up for Chump Car's lack of excitement over the course of the next few weeks.

"This is the scene where I get shot," Bronson said. "I have these little squibs that explode to make it look like bullets are hitting." "Fascinating," said Bergman. "I never knew how they did that." "You mean," asked Bronson, "you don't use machine guns in your movies?"

25 (edited by Jer 2010-04-15 09:44 AM)

Re: chump car broke it off in us

andyshoun wrote:

The Chump race at VIR was great.  Super track!   I missed the big field of cars.  Loved the full 24hr race and mega seat time.  Missed the off track fun.  Would do it again anytime.  Looking forward to Lemons racing at CMP.  We had two new drivers at the race and will have to re-education them (no more wheels off!!!)

+1 on your whole post.

The fun was definitely on the track.  Lemons need to go to VIR! If Lemons ran VIR, it'd get 100 cars.   I really look forward to CMP again, too.  We're lucky to have so many great racing opportunities.

For those complaining about a 14 hour enduro, we will only get 14.5 hours at Summit.  Lots of Lemons races come out around 14 hours, so now that's suddenly not desirable?  Since when?

Jer / Schumacher Taxi Service
2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)