Topic: Turbocharge British Leyland 4-kabanger? or no?

We have 4 drivers for the upcoming Thunderhill event. 2 want to turbocharge our little 998cc bundle of flat tappetty pushrodness, 1 doesn't (a first-time racer), and I'm about 50/50 to just leave it alone for one more event.

I've been wanting to do it, and if our residual is anything like our last one, I can do it well within budget, but there's no testing time and I don't really want to blow up too soon since 2 of our drivers are first time Lemons participants (I'm doing my best to spread the disease). And for the same $ I could probably just plunk in an Austin America 1275 that would put out similar power (about 65hp).

Another concern is putting a return line into our fuel cell. It's only got provisions for the fuel filler, the pickup and a vent line. Could we use an extended filler neck tube (to reach the original high filler neck location on the fender) and use a breather fuel cap and use the vent takeoff as a return fuel feed?

Yea turbo
or
Wait until August event to melt your engine and blow a rod through the transmission

And
Return line thoughts?

Re: Turbocharge British Leyland 4-kabanger? or no?

Melt it baby! Oh yeah, remember to install some diamond plate over the rust holes in your floorboards to protect your little feet against connecting-rod acupuncture wink

Re: Turbocharge British Leyland 4-kabanger? or no?

You're saying "turbo", but you're talking about "fuel return line".  Just what exactly do you have in mind?  A full FI conversion to go with your turbo?  Sounds like overkill.

Think "old school".  Just blow a low pressure turbo (3-4 psi... maaaaybe 6) straight into the carb and re-jet the carb accordingly.  Simple.  Lemony.

And if your carb isn't up to the demands of 65 hp... get a bigger carb!

To answer your question, though... if you're going FI, probably best to construct a swirl tank and just run your return line to it.  Then you'll have a low pressure feed pump in the tank (or gravity feed if you put the swirl tank below the level of the main tank), and a high pressure FI pump between the swirl tank and the fuel rail.

Really, really overkill for 65 hp, though.  More fuel lines and fittings that can leak, more fuel pumps that can break, etc.

Lemons South 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Spring 2009 - Fail, Lemons Detroit(ish) 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Fall 2009 - Fail, Lamest Day 2009 - Fail, Miami 2010 (Chump) - 2nd!, Sebring 2010 (Chump) - Fail, Cuba 2010 - Crew Chief, Roebling 2011 (Chump) - 8th!, Sebring 2011(Chump) - 19th!

Re: Turbocharge British Leyland 4-kabanger? or no?

2 words; Endurance race.

I've given a lot of thought towards turbocharging as well, and decided I'd rather see the checker under power. That way I don't have to listen to another 18 hour round of "what we should have done".

Holy crap! I can't believe I just urged restraint. Time to go light something on fire.

"Real ZomBees prefer Bacon"
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Re: Turbocharge British Leyland 4-kabanger? or no?

If it's a 998, then it has Siamesed cylinders except between two and three....head gaskets might be an issue. My Cooperized 998 would "wire through" between the cylinders...the 1275 would be better, IMO. Late 998's (they sold Minis up here until 1981) used much lower compression with very dished pistons, so there's a piston option if you want to try serious boost...but stay away from the air injection heads!

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: Turbocharge British Leyland 4-kabanger? or no?

I'd say no........  its not worth the drop in reliability and drop in fuel economy...typically boosted Lemons racers (other than Eyesore...who has a Garret engineer on the team) tend to have poor reliability......

http://austin-rover.co.uk/index.htm?engineaseriesf.htm

It appears your engine makes between 38-44hp stock...so 4 psi would give you a pretty good gain on that.....if 65 is the goal I'd say you can do it easy

Do you drive the Mr Bean mini.....if so that car gets around the track pretty darn well as is.... 

I am tempted to add a supercharger to the 928 Estate...even have one lying around...& the judges love ghetto chargers......  but with the well known oil problems 928's have I can't imagine adding boost to the crankcase (I don't really think the rings will hold it) could possibly help....

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2

Re: Turbocharge British Leyland 4-kabanger? or no?

What about upping the compression, a cam  and some headers? Turboing it seems like a quick way to the DNF column. With catastrophic results, like in non-repairable, holey block, etc etc.

Hey, I have a turbo motorcycle for sale. 81 1300cc 6 cylinder Kawasaki with a draw-thru 15psi turbo on it. It's water cooled, has low compression pistons, shaft drive, and water injection. It's reliable on 93 pump gas. Came 120hp stock, never dynoed it with the turbo, but it's probably pushing 200hp. The bike wieghs 660lbs, the engine is probably half that.

Re: Turbocharge British Leyland 4-kabanger? or no?

"Sparky" Pete wrote:

Holy crap! I can't believe I just urged restraint. Time to go light something on fire.

Whoa... I've got to call my friend Pete and tell him that someone has hijacked his Lemons profile and is posting ridiculous things about "restraint." wink

Re: Turbocharge British Leyland 4-kabanger? or no?

We're running a modified setup with a 1275 head on the 998 block, so that gives us a budget equivalent of a big valve head. Compression is about 11.5:1 and we had the cam reground for cheap, too. All of that gives us about 50hp at the wheels with the current setup.

The drivers at Sears got probably about as much as can be gotten out of that car/engine as it was built-- and they drove 2nd and 3rd gears right off of it (we've just learned). So I think our residual this time around has to be used to get the transmission working again-- In addition to it kicking out of 1st as it has from day 1 (who needs first?) it now kicks out of 2nd, and 3rd is a vague sorta guess at where it has moved to (ummm, is this it SCRRRRRUUUNNNCHHHHH --no, that's the reverse gate)

It's gonna have to be August before we go for forced air injection/rod ejection.

Re: Turbocharge British Leyland 4-kabanger? or no?

Do it!

Re: Turbocharge British Leyland 4-kabanger? or no?

Well, my residual request is in. We'll see.

Re: Turbocharge British Leyland 4-kabanger? or no?

50whp in Mr Bean....DAMM that things gets around the track VERY well for "50hp"....

It just goes back to the old motto of racing..LIGHT LIGHT LIGHT.... less is more....   big power = big weight = bad fuel mileage = brake-tire wear & so on.... 

Were quite lucky that the 928 is fairly light given its 600lb 200hp engine!!

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2

Re: Turbocharge British Leyland 4-kabanger? or no?

icemang17 wrote:

50whp in Mr Bean....DAMM that things gets around the track VERY well for "50hp"....

It just goes back to the old motto of racing..LIGHT LIGHT LIGHT.... less is more....   big power = big weight = bad fuel mileage = brake-tire wear & so on.... 

Were quite lucky that the 928 is fairly light given its 600lb 200hp engine!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZL_ZpLGi8c

It was done on a dynojet in 2nd gear. I actually think the claimed numbers are higher than the truth, so I don't trust raw numbers. We were just going for fueling corrections and could care less about the actual barstool hp numbers. That said, I was rather tickled that it got that high!

Re: Turbocharge British Leyland 4-kabanger? or no?

just be careful the 66whp Sunbeam Alpine doesn't come hunting for ya!!

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2

Re: Turbocharge British Leyland 4-kabanger? or no?

The 50 whp mini was flying around our 295 whp jaguar at Infineon. Goes to show you what hp means.

Turbocharging it would be cool... but I'd bet money you'd regret it... then again I would have bet money against the Shitroen completing more than 3 laps also.

Pendejo Engineering "Captain" - 1991 Alfa 164
1983 Shaguar XJ-S V-12 "The Two Ton Miata"
1995 Mercedes S600 V-12  - First car ever CLAIMED by JAY!
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Re: Turbocharge British Leyland 4-kabanger? or no?

You NEED to turbo the Mini!!!  What's the point of even entering the race if the car is not TURBO!?!?!?  50 whp??  Come on!!  I'm surprised you can even get out of the paddock.  You need a turbo just for the sound if nothing else.  ZZZZZIPPPPFFFFTTTTTTT!!!!!

I have a set of bike carbs you can have for $50.  They can be set up for a blow through turbo with not much effort and will flow up to 150hp...

Cars, cameras, and easy living...

Re: Turbocharge British Leyland 4-kabanger? or no?

magnusracing wrote:

The 50 whp mini was flying around our 295 whp jaguar at Infineon. Goes to show you what hp means.

Turbocharging it would be cool... but I'd bet money you'd regret it... then again I would have bet money against the Shitroen completing more than 3 laps also.

BINGO we have a winner......  the MOST powerful car in the Lemons field got passed by the 50whp Mini.......  Really who else has more than 295whp.....I don't know of anyone within 30whp of that.....

My advice is DON'T DO IT.....why...IT WILL BLOW UP....when you have a well running car that is competitive don't mess with it...... increasing HP will only break it FASTER....

Yes I know...its way more fun adding boost + speed...but it rarely works.....(again other than eyesore at 4 psi)....I think Eyesore and the turbo Saab are the only turbo cars to ever win....

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2

Re: Turbocharge British Leyland 4-kabanger? or no?

icemang17 wrote:

BINGO we have a winner......  the MOST powerful car in the Lemons field got passed by the 50whp Mini.......  Really who else has more than 295whp.....I don't know of anyone within 30whp of that.....

My advice is DON'T DO IT.....why...IT WILL BLOW UP....when you have a well running car that is competitive don't mess with it...... increasing HP will only break it FASTER....

Yes I know...its way more fun adding boost + speed...but it rarely works.....(again other than eyesore at 4 psi)....I think Eyesore and the turbo Saab are the only turbo cars to ever win....

DON'T LISTEN TO THIS DRIVEL!  T U R B O THAT CAR  N O W ! ! ! !!!!

Cars, cameras, and easy living...

Re: Turbocharge British Leyland 4-kabanger? or no?

Ok, well, we were able to get some tranny stuff cheaper than we had expected, so that's, ahem, "fixed":  we've figured out a way to pressure feed some bearings that have severely worn bearing surfaces in an effort to get it to last 1 more event-- I guess that's one good thing about the engine and transmission sharing the same oil-- we tapped into an oil galley in the block and ran a piece of brake tubing down to the layshaft of the transmission. *might* help. We'll see.

Anyway, the upside is that we got some o-l-d turbo stuff to try and rig up. Cut up the firewall to make room for it (can't just turn the exhaust upside down like everyone else, unfortunately. Intake runners in the way). There's about 1/8" of shaft play on the turbo, though. One guy on our team who plays with volvo turbos says it'll probably break the shaft sooner than not, but could potentially last the race...

MIGHT happen .

Oh, I'm flattered when you called the mini "competitive". Nearly squeeked into the top 25%. I guess that's competitive.

Re: Turbocharge British Leyland 4-kabanger? or no?

icemang17 wrote:

I'd say no........  its not worth the drop in reliability and drop in fuel economy...typically boosted Lemons racers (other than Eyesore...who has a Garret engineer on the team) tend to have poor reliability......

http://austin-rover.co.uk/index.htm?engineaseriesf.htm

It appears your engine makes between 38-44hp stock...so 4 psi would give you a pretty good gain on that.....if 65 is the goal I'd say you can do it easy

Do you drive the Mr Bean mini.....if so that car gets around the track pretty darn well as is.... 

I am tempted to add a supercharger to the 928 Estate...even have one lying around...& the judges love ghetto chargers......  but with the well known oil problems 928's have I can't imagine adding boost to the crankcase (I don't really think the rings will hold it) could possibly help....

New rule -- if you mention owning a supercharger to us and DO NOT put it on your car, that's 50 laps right there.

"This is the scene where I get shot," Bronson said. "I have these little squibs that explode to make it look like bullets are hitting." "Fascinating," said Bergman. "I never knew how they did that." "You mean," asked Bronson, "you don't use machine guns in your movies?"

Re: Turbocharge British Leyland 4-kabanger? or no?

GnomeFabTech wrote:
icemang17 wrote:

BINGO we have a winner......  the MOST powerful car in the Lemons field got passed by the 50whp Mini.......  Really who else has more than 295whp.....I don't know of anyone within 30whp of that.....

My advice is DON'T DO IT.....why...IT WILL BLOW UP....when you have a well running car that is competitive don't mess with it...... increasing HP will only break it FASTER....

Yes I know...its way more fun adding boost + speed...but it rarely works.....(again other than eyesore at 4 psi)....I think Eyesore and the turbo Saab are the only turbo cars to ever win....

DON'T LISTEN TO THIS DRIVEL!  T U R B O THAT CAR  N O W ! ! ! !!!!

Exactly right.

"This is the scene where I get shot," Bronson said. "I have these little squibs that explode to make it look like bullets are hitting." "Fascinating," said Bergman. "I never knew how they did that." "You mean," asked Bronson, "you don't use machine guns in your movies?"

Re: Turbocharge British Leyland 4-kabanger? or no?

Judge Jonny wrote:
icemang17 wrote:

I'd say no........  its not worth the drop in reliability and drop in fuel economy...typically boosted Lemons racers (other than Eyesore...who has a Garret engineer on the team) tend to have poor reliability......

http://austin-rover.co.uk/index.htm?engineaseriesf.htm

It appears your engine makes between 38-44hp stock...so 4 psi would give you a pretty good gain on that.....if 65 is the goal I'd say you can do it easy

Do you drive the Mr Bean mini.....if so that car gets around the track pretty darn well as is.... 

I am tempted to add a supercharger to the 928 Estate...even have one lying around...& the judges love ghetto chargers......  but with the well known oil problems 928's have I can't imagine adding boost to the crankcase (I don't really think the rings will hold it) could possibly help....

New rule -- if you mention owning a supercharger to us and DO NOT put it on your car, that's 50 laps right there.

Sorry, that's 50 laps per time we've heard about/seen said supercharger and subsequently told you to put it on the car. So, we're talking 200 laps to the 928 as of right now.

"This is the scene where I get shot," Bronson said. "I have these little squibs that explode to make it look like bullets are hitting." "Fascinating," said Bergman. "I never knew how they did that." "You mean," asked Bronson, "you don't use machine guns in your movies?"

Re: Turbocharge British Leyland 4-kabanger? or no?

Judge Jonny wrote:

Sorry, that's 50 laps per time we've heard about/seen said supercharger and subsequently told you to put it on the car. So, we're talking 200 laps to the 928 as of right now.

Its hard to install a supercharger that cost $50 on an $80 budget......I'm good, but not THAT good......   No matter how hard I crack the whip on Evil Clint....I just don't see it happening..... 

Plus its just not HOT enough in May to add boost......if your gonna add boost it must be for the August race at Thunderhill.....  :>)  That way its guaranteed to fail in spectacular fashion!!!!   

Hmm a normally aspirated 928 that overheats in 70F weather.....  clearly the solution is boost in 100F weather.... :>)

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2

Re: Turbocharge British Leyland 4-kabanger? or no?

We will be very disappointed to see a blower-less 928 at Thunderhill. Very disappointed.

Re: Turbocharge British Leyland 4-kabanger? or no?

MurileeMartin wrote:

We will be very disappointed to see a blower-less 928 at Thunderhill. Very disappointed.

Hey Dick! I think you stepped on your richard here! The words Very Disappointed coming from a judges mouth just make my spine crack...



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