Topic: Lemons Guide to Wound Care

Disclaimer:  I am a physician.  However, during the course of this post I'll be offering free advice.  Take it for what it's worth ($0.00) and at your own risk.  There is no guarantee that the recommendations I'm about to give will work in your situation.

This post is in direct response to some of the more alarming injuries detailed in the Most Severe Build Injury? thread.  It will cover some basic wound care and infection avoidance techniques.  Again, apply at your own risk.  If you try to die, don't blame me.

Topic #1 - Bad Lacerations:

If you're getting cut to the point where you can see bone, or at least the periosteum covering the bone, please:

1)  Stick a finger on it... then figure out how badly it's bleeding.  If the wound is spraying or pumping or otherwise somehow projecting blood forcibly out of the wound instead of just steadily oozing - worry more.  Keep direct pressure on the cut.  That means one - ONE - finger directly on the source of the spray.  No light dabbling, no palms over the area unless the cut is just that big.  And then KEEP THE FINGER IN PLACE until you get somewhere with help.  Spraying wounds require an ER visit, period.

If the wound is steadily oozing, as most of them do, hold direct pressure (again, just one finger if possible) for at least five minutes.  Picture a radiator leak - if you get the right stuff to the right spot, it will stop.  The body needs at least five minutes to get the right stuff to the leak to really get it to stop.  Yeah, a temporary fix can be achieved in less time, but the leak (ie bleeding) is likely to return.  Then follow point #5.

2) Make DAMN sure your tetanus shot is up to date.  Tetanus is relatively rare these days, therefore if it happens, many docs won't put the picture together if/when someone gets sick.  It's a disease we're all taught about but never see.  We all seem to be in a high risk group, so just avoid the problem by getting the vaccine.

3) Watch joint mobility, especially in fingers.  The tendonous insertions (where the tendons connect to make things move) are funky on the finger.  If, for example, you can't flex your last knuckle, you have a problem.  Common sense, but sometimes folks think, "I can't move it because of pain" even when they're tough and "it doesn't actually hurt all that much" so they let it go.  A fresh tendon injury is fixable.  One that is more than 24h old is much MUCH trickier.

4) Any redness/swelling/increase in pain or for God's sake FEVER means at least a doctor's trip and possibly an EC visit.  Bone-deep injuries (like the kind described by JThw8) are a HUGE infection risk... and bone infections in particular are NOT fun.  They require at least 6 weeks of IV antibiotics.  They suck. 

5) Strategies to avoid infection:  wash the hell out of the wound.  There are good studies that show that tap water is as good as anything found in an ER or OR.  Furthermore, there are more studies that show that the more you irrigate (wash) your wound, the lower the infection risk.  You also need to worry about water pressure; get at least 5-8 pounds per square inch of pressure.  So stick your wounds under a tap on full blast and you'll be fine.

6) Go buy yourself this: 2x2 gauze pad from http://www.medexsupply.com/wound-care-g … 1378.html. Then cover those with electrical tape or duct tape or whatever.  That way you'll have something sterile/clean next to the wound.

Topic #2 - Burns

1) Wash the hell out of them.  See #5 above.  But use cool water.  DON'T put ice straight on a burn, you'll just end up with two type of thermal burns instead of one.

2) Petrolatum ointment (aka Vasalene) works wonders.  Apply liberally.  Also: keep the burn out of the sun and keep it clean.

3) Do NOT use Silvadene.  If you have any around, throw it out.  If you don't know what Silvadene is, never mind.

4) Point #4 applies here as well.

Good luck Lemoners!  I am not available for consults or questions.  I am available for stickin' a finger on it around the paddock, if necessary.

(And for those of you who are still confused, I'm a doctor who is a wife... Not a wife of a doctor.)

I'm the doctor who is a wife. Which makes the grease hard to explain to my patients... www.tetanusneon.com.

Re: Lemons Guide to Wound Care

Great post, thanks. (shuffles off to make an appointment for tetanus shot)

Bloomington, IN
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Re: Lemons Guide to Wound Care

davisriley wrote:

Great post, thanks. (shuffles off to make an appointment for tetanus shot)

As you should.

I'm the doctor who is a wife. Which makes the grease hard to explain to my patients... www.tetanusneon.com.

Re: Lemons Guide to Wound Care

My doctor now gives routine tetanus shots.  In the old days, they'd wait until you came in for stitches and then give you one.  I got one last year, so I'm good for a while.

Thanks for taking the time to gives us tips to help keep us alive.  We've ALL been injured to varying degrees and we might just remember what you posted the next time we're bleeding (while teammates laugh at us).

BRE Datsun (Broke Racing Effluence) formerly Dawn of the Zed Racing
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5 (edited by Spinnetti 2010-05-03 04:47 PM)

Re: Lemons Guide to Wound Care

Um, Gross!

Hopefully, people who do that much damage have the sense to go to the ER...

PS., can you get too many tetanus shots? They always ask me when in for some injury or another, but I don't remember when, so they tend to not give them to me.

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Re: Lemons Guide to Wound Care

Spinnetti wrote:

PS., can you get too many tetanus shots? They always ask me when in for some injury or another, but I don't remember when, so they tend to not give them to me.

No.

I'm the doctor who is a wife. Which makes the grease hard to explain to my patients... www.tetanusneon.com.

Re: Lemons Guide to Wound Care

One extra tip - when grinding, don't rely on safety goggles. Use a full-face shield. It sounds like overkill until you're grinding bigger ports on your rotary engine end housing and feel a shaving bounce off your cheek and into your eye. Then a week later on a Friday night the shaving (that you thought had fallen out) starts irritating you so bad you have to have your fiance drive you to the ER. Once there the emergency room technician says "I can't do anything but give you this numbing medication. Go see an eye specialist on Monday." You have to work Saturday and Sunday but can't do a damn thing because you have goop oozing out of your eye. Monday morning your eye is feeling fine (and numb) and you go and see the eye doc. He looks and looks and says "I see the rust ring, but the shaving appears to have fallen out." but you never knew because your eye was numb. So you pay the eye doc his $200 (after insurance[/i]) and you pay the ER $400 (after insurance[/i]) and you wonder to yourself. "How the f#$% did that expensive piece of junk get in my eye? I was wearing goggles!"

Just a tip.

Re: Lemons Guide to Wound Care

I was really, really hoping that you were going to advise in favor of super glue in the lacerations section, but I suppose that really depends on the depth of the laceration.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: Lemons Guide to Wound Care

EriktheAwful wrote:

One extra tip - when grinding, don't rely on safety goggles. Use a full-face shield. It sounds like overkill until you're grinding bigger ports on your rotary engine end housing and feel a shaving bounce off your cheek and into your eye. Then a week later on a Friday night the shaving (that you thought had fallen out) starts irritating you so bad you have to have your fiance drive you to the ER. Once there the emergency room technician says "I can't do anything but give you this numbing medication. Go see an eye specialist on Monday." You have to work Saturday and Sunday but can't do a damn thing because you have goop oozing out of your eye. Monday morning your eye is feeling fine (and numb) and you go and see the eye doc. He looks and looks and says "I see the rust ring, but the shaving appears to have fallen out." but you never knew because your eye was numb. So you pay the eye doc his $200 (after insurance[/i]) and you pay the ER $400 (after insurance[/i]) and you wonder to yourself. "How the f#$% did that expensive piece of junk get in my eye? I was wearing goggles!"

Just a tip.

Wow! must be the standard experience.  Been there twice!

"Don't mess with Lexas!" LS400. We survived another one! See website link for build details.
Maker of the "unofficial Lemons fish!" - If you ask nice, I'll likely give you one at the track.

Re: Lemons Guide to Wound Care

Mulry wrote:

I was really, really hoping that you were going to advise in favor of super glue in the lacerations section, but I suppose that really depends on the depth of the laceration.

It depends on the depth and the location. Superglue (ie Dermabond) works on straight lacerations on areas that are not under tension.  Shins, forearms, and under the chin are good places for dermabond/superglue. Hands, elbows, and knees are bad places. The face should be checked out by a doc before glue is applied.

However, the wash the heck out of it rule applies even more to anything glued. Irrigation is like braking, it's almost impossible to have too much.

And remember, my advice is worth exactly what you paid, $0.00.

I'm the doctor who is a wife. Which makes the grease hard to explain to my patients... www.tetanusneon.com.

11 (edited by TrackGeeks_Chris 2010-05-03 07:44 PM)

Re: Lemons Guide to Wound Care

+1 on the irrigation. Plenty of experience on that one on myself as well as others.

Dermabond is a lot easier than doing your own stiches. Also I do think stiches you put in yourself hurt less than those done by others. At least my own personal experience as a DIYer suggests so.

Having your x-wife who is a BSN watch you stitch up your forehead, now that was priceless.

Re: Lemons Guide to Wound Care

I presume Ya'll's have some form of First-Aid kits in your pit/paddock area.  Adrenaline, hot car parts, hotter fluids can be a bad mix.

Re: Lemons Guide to Wound Care

curious, what's wrong with Silvadene? I used it a lot when I got road rash back in my cycling days. Current science dictate otherwise? Guess I should google it, huh?

Re: Lemons Guide to Wound Care

I presume Ya'll's have some form of First-Aid kits in your pit/paddock area.

It's on my packing list, and I mean the big first aid kit, not the band-aids & aspirin kit.

Re: Lemons Guide to Wound Care

Spank wrote:

curious, what's wrong with Silvadene? I used it a lot when I got road rash back in my cycling days. Current science dictate otherwise? Guess I should google it, huh?

Seems that it kils bacteria, but it also kills the skin.
OK, throw that stuff out.  Replace with.....?

Is there an OTC burn/abrasion antiseptic that is better than common neosporin/betadine products?

Jim C.
If God meant for us to race, we'd all have baggy Nomex skin.
08TMS.09NL.10GM, SP, NL.11SP, NL.12SP, VIR, NL.13GM, NJ.14NJ, VIR, WGI.15AB.16GM.17NCM.18GM.19...

Re: Lemons Guide to Wound Care

FJ40Jim wrote:
Spank wrote:

curious, what's wrong with Silvadene? I used it a lot when I got road rash back in my cycling days. Current science dictate otherwise? Guess I should google it, huh?

Seems that it kils bacteria, but it also kills the skin.
OK, throw that stuff out.  Replace with.....?

Is there an OTC burn/abrasion antiseptic that is better than common neosporin/betadine products?

Absolutely correct on the first point; burn centers no longer use Silvadene because its damaging to the regrowing skin.

OTC Neosporin is great for burns.  Apply liberally.

I'm the doctor who is a wife. Which makes the grease hard to explain to my patients... www.tetanusneon.com.

Re: Lemons Guide to Wound Care

Spank wrote:

curious, what's wrong with Silvadene? I used it a lot when I got road rash back in my cycling days. Current science dictate otherwise? Guess I should google it, huh?

I used Tegaderm (3M product I think) for my cycling road rash, highly recommended.

Re: Lemons Guide to Wound Care

doctawife wrote:
FJ40Jim wrote:

Is there an OTC burn/abrasion antiseptic that is better than common neosporin/betadine products?

OTC Neosporin is great for burns.  Apply liberally.

Thanks, will make sure it's in the first aid box.

Jim C.
If God meant for us to race, we'd all have baggy Nomex skin.
08TMS.09NL.10GM, SP, NL.11SP, NL.12SP, VIR, NL.13GM, NJ.14NJ, VIR, WGI.15AB.16GM.17NCM.18GM.19...

Re: Lemons Guide to Wound Care

how about welding gigids those annoying little things that burn into skin as the roll down your sleeve.

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Re: Lemons Guide to Wound Care

Any type of occlusive goo turns out to be good. The anaerobic condition (no air) under the vaseline actually helps the nice scar to form. Dermatologists use vaseline on everything.

While I'm at it, if you EVER plan to need an MRI...WEAR FRIGGIN EYE PROTECTION. One little sliver of metal, one little rust ring and no MRI for you. Safety glasses that don't have sides and tops are called sunglasses and don't protect your eyes.

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Re: Lemons Guide to Wound Care

So at what point is it ok to use spray on duct tape on a wound?

Kidding of course, thanks for the advice

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Re: Lemons Guide to Wound Care

Yeah never use spray on duct tape.  Good old cloth back - allows you to pull the wound closed.  Leaks less that way too.

Just kidding.

Re: Lemons Guide to Wound Care

doctawife wrote:

Disclaimer:  I am a physician.  However, during the course of this post I'll be offering free advice.  Take it for what it's worth ($0.00) and at your own risk.  There is no guarantee that the recommendations I'm about to give will work in your situation.

This post is in direct response to some of the more alarming injuries detailed in the Most Severe Build Injury? thread.  It will cover some basic wound care and infection avoidance techniques.  Again, apply at your own risk.  If you try to die, don't blame me.

Topic #1 - Bad Lacerations:

If you're getting cut to the point where you can see bone, or at least the periosteum covering the bone, please:

1)  Stick a finger on it... then figure out how badly it's bleeding.  If the wound is spraying or pumping or otherwise somehow projecting blood forcibly out of the wound instead of just steadily oozing - worry more.  Keep direct pressure on the cut.  That means one - ONE - finger directly on the source of the spray.  No light dabbling, no palms over the area unless the cut is just that big.  And then KEEP THE FINGER IN PLACE until you get somewhere with help.  Spraying wounds require an ER visit, period.

If the wound is steadily oozing, as most of them do, hold direct pressure (again, just one finger if possible) for at least five minutes.  Picture a radiator leak - if you get the right stuff to the right spot, it will stop.  The body needs at least five minutes to get the right stuff to the leak to really get it to stop.  Yeah, a temporary fix can be achieved in less time, but the leak (ie bleeding) is likely to return.  Then follow point #5.

2) Make DAMN sure your tetanus shot is up to date.  Tetanus is relatively rare these days, therefore if it happens, many docs won't put the picture together if/when someone gets sick.  It's a disease we're all taught about but never see.  We all seem to be in a high risk group, so just avoid the problem by getting the vaccine.

3) Watch joint mobility, especially in fingers.  The tendonous insertions (where the tendons connect to make things move) are funky on the finger.  If, for example, you can't flex your last knuckle, you have a problem.  Common sense, but sometimes folks think, "I can't move it because of pain" even when they're tough and "it doesn't actually hurt all that much" so they let it go.  A fresh tendon injury is fixable.  One that is more than 24h old is much MUCH trickier.

4) Any redness/swelling/increase in pain or for God's sake FEVER means at least a doctor's trip and possibly an EC visit.  Bone-deep injuries (like the kind described by JThw8) are a HUGE infection risk... and bone infections in particular are NOT fun.  They require at least 6 weeks of IV antibiotics.  They suck. 

5) Strategies to avoid infection:  wash the hell out of the wound.  There are good studies that show that tap water is as good as anything found in an ER or OR.  Furthermore, there are more studies that show that the more you irrigate (wash) your wound, the lower the infection risk.  You also need to worry about water pressure; get at least 5-8 pounds per square inch of pressure.  So stick your wounds under a tap on full blast and you'll be fine.

6) Go buy yourself this: 2x2 gauze pad from http://www.medexsupply.com/wound-care-g … 1378.html. Then cover those with electrical tape or duct tape or whatever.  That way you'll have something sterile/clean next to the wound.

Topic #2 - Burns

1) Wash the hell out of them.  See #5 above.  But use cool water.  DON'T put ice straight on a burn, you'll just end up with two type of thermal burns instead of one.

2) Petrolatum ointment (aka Vasalene) works wonders.  Apply liberally.  Also: keep the burn out of the sun and keep it clean.

3) Do NOT use Silvadene.  If you have any around, throw it out.  If you don't know what Silvadene is, never mind.

4) Point #4 applies here as well.

Good luck Lemoners!  I am not available for consults or questions.  I am available for stickin' a finger on it around the paddock, if necessary.

(And for those of you who are still confused, I'm a doctor who is a wife... Not a wife of a doctor.)

All fine and dandy advice, but I didn't see "more beer" or "Jack Daniels" anywhere in there... big_smile

Re: Lemons Guide to Wound Care

Doug I wrote:

Yeah never use spray on duct tape.  Good old cloth back - allows you to pull the wound closed.  Leaks less that way too.

Just kidding.

Sometimes I wish I could use duct tape in the ER.  It would save a lot of hassels.  Damn Joint Commission rules...

I'm the doctor who is a wife. Which makes the grease hard to explain to my patients... www.tetanusneon.com.

Re: Lemons Guide to Wound Care

Petition to change doctawife's nick to "lemonsmom"?

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