The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Tech → Hans device... why aren't you guys running one?
From what I've seen, working on a Lemons car is more dangerous than actually driving one.... you might as well require neck restraints on the expressway, 'cause the risk is about the same or greater IMO. I'd trade the neck brace requirement for a window net in a heartbeat.
Eric
From what I've seen, working on a Lemons car is more dangerous than actually driving one.... you might as well require neck restraints on the expressway, 'cause the risk is about the same or greater IMO. I'd trade the neck brace requirement for a window net in a heartbeat.
Eric
Window nets sure seem like a great way to end up stuck in your car.
We had one at gingerman and our driver got stuck in the car in front of Jay and the judges.
The conversation was to set the car on fire to see how quickly he could get out. 
If you look at the video where the guy fractured his neck at sears pointless, you can see him hit the roof with his helmet right when the roof hits the ground.
Hans device isn't going to help much there, what would have helped that is tighter seatbelts.
My only personal experience is being t-boned in a sprint kart wearing a collar, it did the job just fine. No neck soreness at all afterwards or anything. I've never noticed any significant reduction in mobility with it personally.
That said, were i racing in something with seatbelts i'd want to go Hans if i could afford it.
Word is the ER doc concluded, after viewing the in-car video of the Sears crash, that Tylers's neck was most likely fractured from the violent whiplash when he hit the wall - which is precisely the injusry the HANS is designed to prevent. The neck collar possibly reduced the severity of the injury, but it didn't prevent it. Don't skimp on safety gear - like a HANS. Another item teams should spring for is a good, safe and well-constructed purpose built racing seat. You just can't be too "overly safe" when it comes to safety equipment/gear
foam collar = $45
helmet = $200 (CHEAP for SA2005 tbh)
other fire gear = $400
Steel for rollcage =$500-600
THE CAR = $500
If I had bought a HANS I never woulda made my first race. I love my neck, but I see better places to put that $600-$1200(depending on the version you get) especially when it comes to safety. what about a better cage? upgraded brakes? Thicker Fireproof panties? I'm not saying this is a joke/disregard safety or anything like that, but given the shitpiles with shoddy suspensions we're racing, we're just about 3000% more likely to flip & burn.
Example: I've been to 7 races, of those races I've seen:
5 roll-overs
3-spectacular fires
5 hard hits to a barrier
maybe one neck injury
definitely one back injury albeit minor
Everyone's walked away OK afaik. Sears Pointless is the first race since I've started watching these things in 06 that's given me any cause for looking into more neck protection. The point is though, I think I'd rather spend my money to upgrade my fire protection. I'm currently looking good and hard at the Leatt Moto-R brace though so don't assume I'm ignoring risks to my neck/back. (It seems like it stabilizes a neck more like a medical brace and almost all tested scenarios showed less force being transmitted)
I want the best I can get for my money and at this point in the game I do not think HANS is it.
EDIT: just thought of another sticking point. My helmet would probably need to get replaced by something with pre-drilled attachment points, as i don't like the concept of home-drilling a helmet...that's another $300 roundabouts regardless.
foam collar = $45
helmet = $200 (CHEAP for SA2005 tbh)
other fire gear = $400
Steel for rollcage =$500-600
THE CAR = $500EDIT: just thought of another sticking point. My helmet would probably need to get replaced by something with pre-drilled attachment points, as i don't like the concept of home-drilling a helmet...that's another $300 roundabouts regardless.
Og Racing mounts it on your helmet for free w/ purchase
A life threatening fire is far less likely than a neck inury accident in a Lemons crap heap. Fires happen, but they are almost exlusively limited to the engine compartment initially, (leaving plenty of time to egress the car).
I think the most dangerous aspect of Lemons are high-G collisions with other cars or walls, that has a higher potential of occuring than a fatal fire, IMHO.
Disclosure. We're a certified Hans dealer. Not here to sell you anything, just comment on the comments FWIW.
First off, a foam collar in auto racing is good for three things - being uncomfortable, limiting voluntary head movement, and assisting your neck muscles in holding your grape upright in lateral G situations. It is not designed to be a safety device. Read the included literature so carefully crafted by their lawyers.
A Hans is no more likely to impede an emergency egress than any other equipment or apparel involved. It moves with your helmet, neck and shoulders. There is nothing on the Hans to disconnect to get out of the car. Once you pop the harness loose, your Hans is free to go where you go, just as fast as the rest of you.
No piece of safety equipment in your car or on your body is, or represents, a total guarantee that you can't get hurt, burned or chopped into little bits. But just like a multi-layer suit provides additional protection from direct flame, a Hans greatly reduces the risk of neck-injury.
Price? Yes they are expensive and some of the reasons for that has been touched on. Volume, certifications (they cost a lot of $$$, ask Impact!), type of material used, etc.
A Hans can be fitted to any helmet. Easier on a pre-drilled helmet, yes, but older helmets work just as well.
Get the sliding tethers with the quick clips. You'll love yourself for it (please keep those stories to yourself)
Look, no one plans to nose dive into a wall or Armco at a high rate of speed. Your safety is worth what it's worth to you. We take chances in life just rolling out of bed and dodging soccer moms in SUVs. But the stakes can be higher at the track. I don't race without a Hans.
FWIW.
I used a Hans at the last race. Found it very comfortable and had no issues with mobility while driving or during driver changes. In fact I found it easier to put on before I got in the car.
If you are concerned about getting out of your car in an emergency you have a bigger problem than your neck support. I'm guessing everyone (myself included) could use a little more practice at this. You should not have to think about it.
Edward
PS. I believe we have the smallest car on the track so don't tell me that you can't use a Hans in a small car.
New around here, but a HANS device does not impede getting out of a car. They really should be as mandatory as harnesses and roll cages. IMHO.
The more you use a HANS the less troublesome it is.
We're a rookie team - with some rookie drivers.
Will this be our one and only Lemons race - who knows, but probably yes.
Is it worth the cost of a HANS device for one race? Who knows ... as was said you roll the dice just getting out of bed. Some say you can't and shouldn't put a price on safety and should save to get the best safety before you spend anything on racing. This carries some weight, but the flip side is why don't we all use the F1 rated helmets that retail at $3500 - they are after all the best that money can buy. We don't because we all make a choice on where we draw our own safety/cost line. An SA rated helmet has been found to provide sufficient protection against the most likely situations where it will be used in a car.
All our gear meets minimum standards. Standards that have been historically shown to provide sufficient protection for the situations that arise. What we buy to go beyond that is personal choice. Some will forgo 'this' race to save for a HANS device, others will accept the risk and spend the money on an entry fee.
We as a team were happy to go with the foam collars. However, we have had donated to the team a Defender, which will be used by those who can use it.
Will this be our one and only Lemons race - who knows, but probably yes.
Unless you have found some secret antidote that the rest of us don't know about, this will NOT be your only Lemons race. This shit is like crack. You'll be back...
Split one Hans amongst all of you. Unless you have some large variation in neck size amongst your team, you shouldn't each need to have your own if you wouldn't use it again.
We will have 6 drivers. Four of us already own Hans devices. The other two guys will just borrow one of ours.
Remember, only one guy drives at a time.
Also, used Hans devices hold value reasonably well. You should be able to sell it for 80% of what you paid for it if it's in like-new condition.
We're a rookie team - with some rookie drivers.
Will this be our one and only Lemons race - who knows, but probably yes.
Is it worth the cost of a HANS device for one race? .
I use a hans and it is just as easy to egress in a hans as in a collar. You have to release your harness in both cases. There is no egress problem.
Also, used Hans devices hold value reasonably well. You should be able to sell it for 80% of what you paid for it if it's in like-new condition.
Personally, I'm holding out for the classified ad titled "seriously morbid deal on a HANs/DefNder".....
Foam POS is more than adequate for my needs, leave the expensive stuff to the real races.
Foam POS is more than adequate for my needs, leave the expensive stuff to the real races.
Hitting 100+ mph at Dallas last weekend in a 6 car train made it a real race!
We ran 2 Neck DefnDers between a team of 5. The device and one set of helmet clips are $549, additional clip are $75, which isn't much more than a foam neck brace.
I've also worked in a number of ICUs over 17 years, and have seen just about every kind of bizarre accident there is.
Are the odds of a life altering/ending neck injury small? yes
Do neck, spinal cord and brachial plexus injuries occur in motorsports? yes.
Will it totally change your life if it happens? yes.
Life's a gamble - the smartest thing you can do is improve your odds!
DefNder here. While I dont agree with the argument about the foam collar being restrictive it is hot as hell and not as safe as the hans/def. Before my daughter was in my life I did not give a hoot about it but now if I can spend alittle more to try and insure I will be around to take care of her then that is priceless.
I know this is crapcan racing, but the last thing I want is to face someone's loved ones after an incident where added safety equipment could have prevented further injury.
That's a slippery slope, though... at what point do you stop beating yourself up over it?
If only we had an extra door bar. If only we had a 6-point instead of a 5-point. If only the seat fit more snugly. If only we had a fire suppression system instead of an extinguisher. If only we had...
Racing is risky business. If everyone doesn't accept that you're doing the best you can collectively do within the agreed-upon constraints upon time and money, then they shouldn't be behind the wheel of your car.
My 2¢.
edit: Holy crap, I agree with Troy. :eek:
Doug I wrote:Will this be our one and only Lemons race - who knows, but probably yes.
Unless you have found some secret antidote that the rest of us don't know about, this will NOT be your only Lemons race. This shit is like crack. You'll be back...
An $1800 airfare is a pretty good antidote 
Jeff G 78 wrote:Doug I wrote:Will this be our one and only Lemons race - who knows, but probably yes.
Unless you have found some secret antidote that the rest of us don't know about, this will NOT be your only Lemons race. This shit is like crack. You'll be back...
An $1800 airfare is a pretty good antidote
Where are you flying from?
I hope to get a HANS or defender next year. Money is always tight.
I hope to get a HANS or defender next year. Money is always tight.
this.
I had a hard enough time putting together the cash to run the car with my street car and other sports getting in the way..... oh and the ever present kitchen and bathroom I've been meaning to redo for the past 3 years. That said I hope to expand my schedule next year, and probably get a new helmet as well (since SA2000 will have expired) so I'll hopefully do it all in one shot.
If anyone wants to donate to my HANS fund, buy a t-shirt, mug, or Team Farfrumwinnin thong at the link below!
From what I've seen, working on a Lemons car is more dangerous than actually driving one.... you might as well require neck restraints on the expressway, 'cause the risk is about the same or greater IMO. I'd trade the neck brace requirement for a window net in a heartbeat.
Eric
Careful what you wish for....when you're upside down, things are very disorienting....I've had to crawl out through the passenger side because I couldn't release the net. If there was fire and I had to go out the driver's window I'd have been in trouble. With a racing seat and/or HANS/Defnder, I don't see how your head would get out there anyway...but I agree that HANS is expensive and might not be the best choice in safety if money is an issue....maybe a seat first..
NorDal was my first event with a HNR ... I bought a DefNder. It was kind of a PITA to set up, but once configured and attached, I just took it off with the helmet as one piece after my stint. Not only did it keep me cooler, but it also seemed to help restrain my helmet while driving. (I have some tendonitits in my neck/shoulder, that's usually really bad after races .. but it was fine after this event.)
It takes some getting used to, but well worth the $549 if you think you're going to be doing multiple events in your lifetime.
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