• From: Frisco, Texas
  • Registered: 2009-05-02
  • Posts: 1,430

Re: How many honestly stay under $500?

gielamonster wrote:

I think a lot of you guys are missing the point entirely. You're not supposed to find the awesomest car you can at a crazy insider police auction that no one shows up to and then lie/cheat to put sooper go-fast parts on it.

You're supposed to find the CRAPPIEST car imaginable. Put a cage in it. Race it. If you have to show receipts to the judges to prove your story, I'd argue you're doing it wrong. The goal should be to bring a car that they won't even pop the hood on.

If it were up to me no one would be allowed to sell anything for budget room. If you're afraid the judges won't believe your story, don't bring the car. You're not proving anything bringing a $1000 car that you "sell" $1000 of stuff off of and then put $500 worth of go-fast goodies on. You're still going to lose anyway. Some '84 cavalier is going to beat you. And they'll probably have a lot more fun doing it.

Hmm.. Maybe true.. Looking at your site, those are Lemons cars? A Talon? a Volvo with Cams and Megasquirrt? A "Black Iron"  (illegal) roll cage? If that's all Lemons, somebody ain't drinking the kool-aid, not to mention impossible sounding budget smile I'd be "Opening the hood" on all of those.....

"Don't mess with Lexas!" LS400. We survived another one! See website link for build details.
Maker of the "unofficial Lemons fish!" - If you ask nice, I'll likely give you one at the track.

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  • From: Hayward, CA
  • Registered: 2010-03-23
  • Posts: 1,762

Re: How many honestly stay under $500?

PleadingThe5th wrote:

That seems great, but after a few trips to autozone for a couple replacement hoses and belts, maybe some new spark plugs and all the other little things that you never think of before you start, it's very likely that you've spent another $100 just to get the engine to a point where it has a fighting chance of staying on the track for more than 20 laps.  So now lets say in the process of testing the car out your fuel pump goes out or your alternator or any number of other components that can fail in a car with 250,000 mi on it that the previous owner only thought was worth $300.  In my experience it's really easy to blow through $500 without doing anything to improve the performance of the car at all.

Don't get me wrong, diagnosing and finding a cheap solution to the hundreds of problems you encounter while trying to get a car ready is one of the reasons why Lemons is so fun.

Well you are saying two different things there:
You get a cheap car and then you hit auto zone for new plugs, radiator hoses, belts, etc... How about hit the JY and get all that for $10. The JY is full of cars, and cars that have usable parts. find out what cars are running the same plugs, go unscrew some and you will probably find a set that is nearly new. Soak them in Super Clean for a while and touch up with a file and you'll have that new set of plugs. get a couple sets, change every 5 hours during racing.
Rad hoses, same deal, walk around find a JY car with new hoses, belts too.

Some parts are easily repairable. Most starters fail because the copper armature gets smeared and shorts out the armature. Take it a part and scrape the insulator slots with a screw driver. Fixed!
Some parts just need cleaning. I was stripping down a JY short block, and the oil pan gasket is hard and crunchy, so I know I need a new gasket, and I'll just get new front and rear seals since they are probably hard as rocks also. Nope, just scrubbed them clean with some Super Clean and the seal lips are nice and rubbery, just cleaned out all the dirt and oil crap. That saved $40 in new parts.

More elbow grease, less wallet grease.

Dudes Ex Machina: https://www.facebook.com/dudesexmachina

?Everyone who has ever built anywhere a 'new heaven' first found the power thereto in his own hell- Frederick Nietzsche
  • From: Dallas, TX
  • Registered: 2010-06-11
  • Posts: 90

Re: How many honestly stay under $500?

I'm pretty new to Lemons (driven in 2 races) so I don't have a ton of experience to base this on, but I think it's more about the story of the car and what it brings to the table vs. the exact amount spent.  If you have a Miata you genuinely got for $500, but it has no theme and your team is only interested in coming in first, IMO you probably deserve a few penalty laps since you're not really bringing anything to the race.  On the other hand, if you manage to get some some esoteric old car that was only imported to the US for a few years in the mid 80's up and running and cover it in fur and add a tail, who really cares if it actually cost you $800?

By the same token if there's a team that really puts a lot of effort into their theme, they drive well on the track and they're friendly in the pits, I don't have a problem if they try to sneak a few things past the judges in an effort to make their car go fast.  It is a race after all and it's fun to go faster.  As long as you're participating in the spirit of the event and you're trying to be a part of the community I think pushing the envelope in terms of what you can get away with is fine.  Spending extra money and BSing your way out of penalty laps is far less egregious to me than driving like the F1 championship was on the line or being unhelpful to the team in the pit next to you because you're trying to beat them on laps.

  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 297

Re: How many honestly stay under $500?

Spinnetti wrote:

Hmm.. Maybe true.. Looking at your site, those are Lemons cars? A Talon? a Volvo with Cams and Megasquirrt? A "Black Iron"  (illegal) roll cage? If that's all Lemons, somebody ain't drinking the kool-aid, not to mention impossible sounding budget smile I'd be "Opening the hood" on all of those.....

Do as I say, not as I do. wink

Just another crappy BMW and moto-powered MR2: http://www.facebook.com/BlackIronRacing
Gnome money, Gnome problems. (RIP) http://www.facebook.com/MetroGnomeRacing
  • Troy
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  • Registered: 2009-04-30
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Re: How many honestly stay under $500?

gielamonster wrote:

I think a lot of you guys are missing the point entirely. You're not supposed to find the awesomest car you can at a crazy insider police auction that no one shows up to and then lie/cheat to put sooper go-fast parts on it.

You're supposed to find the CRAPPIEST car imaginable. Put a cage in it. Race it. If you have to show receipts to the judges to prove your story, I'd argue you're doing it wrong. The goal should be to bring a car that they won't even pop the hood on.

If it were up to me no one would be allowed to sell anything for budget room. If you're afraid the judges won't believe your story, don't bring the car. You're not proving anything bringing a $1000 car that you "sell" $1000 of stuff off of and then put $500 worth of go-fast goodies on. You're still going to lose anyway. Some '84 cavalier is going to beat you. And they'll probably have a lot more fun doing it.

I've gotta agree with the previous posts, I'd say 4wd Talon is pretty damn bad ass and I think it would be cool to race one too.

Defining a Lemons car is difficult and is up to each team and their interpretation.  Then the Judges lay their assessments on your Crap Can and you get to go pound the hell out of it.

With safety requirements almost in line with SCCA and NASA, outside of requiring DOM tube cages, you are going to put a decent investment in your POS.  I suggest you pick something that you feel is worth your time, money and effort. 

If that's a Renault, fine, go play an be happy.  Just don't complain about the teams that chose Integras, E30s or whatever.

My personal opinion is to race a car that will be fun to drive, not to hard to build, maintain or repair.  In our case, we started with an Old Z.  It's fun, fast and on occasion semi-reliable.  Parts availability could be better but I manage.  I pick up complete cars and scrap them myself more than hitting Pick-A-Part. 

My only concern about the other cars on the track is that they play nice with others.  I don't care what they are.

The Sable powered Renault is awesome.  The SHO-Stang is also really cool and crazy too.

One other issue regarding the investment in the car is the cost to run it and keep it running.  Entry fees start around $1000.  Wearable safety items cost money too.  I suggest trying to be as reliable as possible to get as much seat time out of your dollars and elbow grease as possible.

While not specifically in the rules, major leaks will result in Black Flags as a safety hazard.  So fix your major leaks with new or refurbished gaskets and seals.  Personally, I'd just replace them with new stuff or silicone.  Engine gasket kits give you the most bang for the buck.

As others have mentioned, lots of parts can be refurbished with some cleaning and re-greasing too.

Creativity is the key to problem solving as well as building.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z
  • From: Hayward, CA
  • Registered: 2010-03-23
  • Posts: 1,762

Re: How many honestly stay under $500?

Quote: "No anal SCCA rules."

The more competitive it gets, the more rules we will see. Just wait. Unless the judges start slapping down penalty laps as a leveler.

If they leave the rules up to interpretation, then they are the ones that need to be doing the interpretation. You bolt on a F&R JY sway bar , JY coil overs, a header, that's all going to cost some amount of $$, which will probably push most "$500" cars over the limit. So that implies penalty laps, maybe a few, should be awarded. for more radical cheaters, more laps. The crappiest, least likely to finish car should get zero laps, and that should be the baseline. It were a perfect systems, all cars would finish with the same number of laps at the end of the race (corrected, handicaped).

The interpretation of the rules is also getting divided between the racers and the "run what you brung" mentality. This is getting covered by the division of classes, but are there class prizes or is this just a trophy and title?? If the overall winner is getting the $1500, but the winner in ugly class gets $0, what's the incentive to bring something ugly, unless its cheap, your first time, or your gunning for IoE (index of effluence). maybe the $1500 should be split between the classes ($500 each) and the IoE winner still gets the $1501, which changes the focus more toward the fun crazy side of the equation, and away from the race winner.

If the overall winner in one class gets more $$$$ than the other classes, why would people want to race in those classes, unless its their first time? I like having fun, but if I can have fun and race for $1500 (or $1501 if I choose to take that path), well all the better. I'm going to put my lifetime experience and elbow grease into solving and fixing those problems that will get me to the finish line first and fastest, and under $500. A lot of elbow grease and some permatex can take a $300 JY car and make it run all weekend long. But that is not really "run what you brung"

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57 Reply by Spinnetti (edited by Spinnetti 2010-06-14 10:16 AM)

  • From: Frisco, Texas
  • Registered: 2009-05-02
  • Posts: 1,430

Re: How many honestly stay under $500?

mackwagon wrote:

Quote: "No anal SCCA rules."

The more competitive it gets, the more rules we will see. Just wait. Unless the judges start slapping down penalty laps as a leveler.

If they leave the rules up to interpretation, then they are the ones that need to be doing the interpretation. You bolt on a F&R JY sway bar , JY coil overs, a header, that's all going to cost some amount of $$, which will probably push most "$500" cars over the limit. So that implies penalty laps, maybe a few, should be awarded. for more radical cheaters, more laps. The crappiest, least likely to finish car should get zero laps, and that should be the baseline. It were a perfect systems, all cars would finish with the same number of laps at the end of the race (corrected, handicaped).

The interpretation of the rules is also getting divided between the racers and the "run what you brung" mentality. This is getting covered by the division of classes, but are there class prizes or is this just a trophy and title?? If the overall winner is getting the $1500, but the winner in ugly class gets $0, what's the incentive to bring something ugly, unless its cheap, your first time, or your gunning for IoE (index of effluence). maybe the $1500 should be split between the classes ($500 each) and the IoE winner still gets the $1501, which changes the focus more toward the fun crazy side of the equation, and away from the race winner.

If the overall winner in one class gets more $$$$ than the other classes, why would people want to race in those classes, unless its their first time? I like having fun, but if I can have fun and race for $1500 (or $1501 if I choose to take that path), well all the better. I'm going to put my lifetime experience and elbow grease into solving and fixing those problems that will get me to the finish line first and fastest, and under $500. A lot of elbow grease and some permatex can take a $300 JY car and make it run all weekend long. But that is not really "run what you brung"

Yeah, I've made pretty much the same arguments before. Myself, I don't like it being in "classes".. One is all you need if the "rolling parade float" idea is for real. I also think there should either be $0 for the win, or just a trophy, and give out that same amount of money across "classes" like Craziest engineering, best theme etc... As you mentioned, its getting more like the SCCA all the time, and if I have to invest $5k just to get on track, I'm going to go for the win... Easiest way to steer back to the original theme is to not reward the win at all. I was one that pushed for more money going to IOE than the win, but I think they didn't go far enough..

"Don't mess with Lexas!" LS400. We survived another one! See website link for build details.
Maker of the "unofficial Lemons fish!" - If you ask nice, I'll likely give you one at the track.

Spinnetti's Website

  • RobL
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Re: How many honestly stay under $500?

Spinnetti wrote:

Yeah, I've made pretty much the same arguments before. Myself, I don't like it being in "classes".. One is all you need if the "rolling parade float" idea is for real. I also think there should either be $0 for the win, or just a trophy, and give out that same amount of money across "classes" like Craziest engineering, best theme etc... As you mentioned, its getting more like the SCCA all the time, and if I have to invest $5k just to get on track, I'm going to go for the win... Easiest way to steer back to the original theme is to not reward the win at all. I was one that pushed for more money going to IOE than the win, but I think they didn't go far enough..

The original theme (from everything that I've read and have talked to the organizers about) was cheap racing where nothing goes right.  IE Jay and company were sitting around eating Chinese food talking about their best times on the track and it wasn't when they won, it was when things broke and there was success after misfortune (all night wrenching sessions and unique fixes).   So the original “theme” was who could make a $500 go the furthest.  So both the IOE and the winner on laps BOTH fit the original theme.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

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  • From: Choctaw, Oklahoma
  • Registered: 2009-11-12
  • Posts: 2,145

Re: How many honestly stay under $500?

I was stripping down a JY short block, and the oil pan gasket is hard and crunchy, so I know I need a new gasket, and I'll just get new front and rear seals since they are probably hard as rocks also. Nope, just scrubbed them clean with some Super Clean and the seal lips are nice and rubbery, just cleaned out all the dirt and oil crap. That saved $40 in new parts.

Gray puckey is the greatest cheap gasket ever made.

  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 297

Re: How many honestly stay under $500?

Also, for the record... the second time we raced the talon, one of the judges (can't remember which one) said "you guys brought a DSM? These things are terrible!" He was spot on, I think we finished around 50th out of 150.

Just another crappy BMW and moto-powered MR2: http://www.facebook.com/BlackIronRacing
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  • RobL
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Re: How many honestly stay under $500?

gielamonster wrote:

Also, for the record... the second time we raced the talon, one of the judges (can't remember which one) said "you guys brought a DSM? These things are terrible!" He was spot on, I think we finished around 50th out of 150.

So better than average is still terrible?

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

RobL's Website

  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 297

Re: How many honestly stay under $500?

Not a terrible finish at all, but the terribleness of the car still shined through. While it was on track it could struggle to maintain pace with the "fast guys". While it was on track...

Just another crappy BMW and moto-powered MR2: http://www.facebook.com/BlackIronRacing
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  • Registered: 2009-05-02
  • Posts: 214

Re: How many honestly stay under $500?

mackwagon wrote:

Quote: "No anal SCCA rules."


If the overall winner in one class gets more $$$$ than the other classes, why would people want to race in those classes, unless its their first time? I like having fun, but if I can have fun and race for $1500 (or $1501 if I choose to take that path), well all the better. I'm going to put my lifetime experience and elbow grease into solving and fixing those problems that will get me to the finish line first and fastest, and under $500. A lot of elbow grease and some permatex can take a $300 JY car and make it run all weekend long. But that is not really "run what you brung"

The thing is cars can move up in class. When we finished 3rd at Reno last year we won the ugly class and had been mentioned on Jalopnik as an IOE car. With our 3rd place finish Alfettas are no longer in the ugly class but have moved up to the good class. After the last race look for Z's and SHO's to move up. Once you've proven that a particular car can do well the bar has been set and they don't move down.

Wes Conklin
Team California Mille
2007 Eyetalian Class Champions
20+ races and still going strong, Finally won one. Pacific Northworst Winner 2012.
  • Registered: 2009-10-18
  • Posts: 37

Re: How many honestly stay under $500?

Re the mini cooper.
It was our 1st time at Lemons, We read the rules took a 2400 $ rolled mini with a certificate of destruction tittle.
Sold off the seats, moon roof, side air bags and various other bits. ( We have a company in the salvage business.) Ended with 0 value car. All our salvage cars end up 0 value. We are in the business to make a profit.
It was fully documented and we got 1066 penalty laps. Didn't really care the fun was driving. Car was super reliable and ran all weekend. Laps were around the 2.20 best lap 2.09
However figured it wasn't in the spirit of Lemons so we came back with a 1973 MGB, Had to buy a few parts, not so easy to find at the salvage yard.  We end up around 800$. didn't get any penalty laps though. 34 HP at the rear wheels on the dyno, no way we were getting penalty laps. Only lasted 37 laps blew the head gasket and cracked the block. We were so slow it was dangerous.
The MGB will return for Houston in September with a Chevy 3.4 V6. Easy to find parts and a really cheap motor.
We make an effort with the theme, Austin Powers, for the Mini, Spitfire wings on the MGB
We want to run a Lotus- the search continues!

  • Registered: 2009-10-25
  • Posts: 1,993

Re: How many honestly stay under $500?

Union Jack
Just to be clear, I wasn't taking a pot shot at you or your mini....I was just citing an example....

Clearly you guys "get it"...you parked the cheatonium mobile and came back with a legit Lemons car in the MG...nicely done! 

A lotus would be super cool....but the bummer is they are pricey...there has to be a rusted out POS out there somewhere you can find.....

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2
  • Registered: 2009-10-18
  • Posts: 37

Re: How many honestly stay under $500?

I know you were not taking shots at us. What i was trying to say is the intent is more important than the real value. We had more money in a 73 MGB piece of shit than a 2005 Mini Cooper but the impression of cheating is vastly different.

Its going to be very difficult to be under 500$ for a Lotus but we are trying to bring something different.
Wouldn't be much fun to see a 100 Japanese 4 bangers and 20 fox bodies would it!

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Re: How many honestly stay under $500?

I've seen cheap Lotus Europas.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z
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Re: How many honestly stay under $500?

Troy wrote:

I've seen cheap Lotus Europas.

For good reason.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

RobL's Website

  • From: Houston (Spring) Texas
  • Registered: 2010-02-22
  • Posts: 1,624

Re: How many honestly stay under $500?

Troy wrote:

I've seen cheap Lotus Europas.

I always wanted one.
something about a car that is so low it can drive under a miata...

that will be my nest Lemons

Yee-Haw 2010 "Most Heroic Fix" & "I Got Screwed" -2 trophies for 1 lap, but I took checkered on my lap.
Gator-O-Rama 2012 "Organizers Choice" -2 laps 1 trophy, but i still finished ahead of an E30
Yee-Haw 2013 No trophy -26 laps, I think I see a pattern here
Gator-O-Rama 2014 "Waiting for the Last Minute Call from the Governor Award" -who's counting? John

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70 Reply by Jer

  • Jer
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  • From: West Chester, PA
  • Registered: 2009-05-04
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Re: How many honestly stay under $500?

I want a Europa someday too.  Problem is, once I get it I might want to keep it and not Lemonize it!

Jer / Schumacher Taxi Service
2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)

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  • From: DFW Metromess
  • Registered: 2009-10-30
  • Posts: 279

Re: How many honestly stay under $500?

Eclat/Elite are cheap when you can find them

72 Reply by Jer

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Re: How many honestly stay under $500?

gielamonster wrote:

I think a lot of you guys are missing the point entirely. You're not supposed to find the awesomest car you can at a crazy insider police auction that no one shows up to and then lie/cheat to put sooper go-fast parts on it.

You're supposed to find the CRAPPIEST car imaginable. Put a cage in it. Race it. If you have to show receipts to the judges to prove your story, I'd argue you're doing it wrong. The goal should be to bring a car that they won't even pop the hood on.

If it were up to me no one would be allowed to sell anything for budget room. If you're afraid the judges won't believe your story, don't bring the car. You're not proving anything bringing a $1000 car that you "sell" $1000 of stuff off of and then put $500 worth of go-fast goodies on. You're still going to lose anyway. Some '84 CRAPTATION is going to beat you. And they'll probably have a lot more fun doing it.

FIXED THAT FOR YOU.

Jer / Schumacher Taxi Service
2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)

Jer's Website

  • From: Merrick, NY
  • Registered: 2009-05-13
  • Posts: 2,155

Re: How many honestly stay under $500?

Spinnetti wrote:
mackwagon wrote:

Quote: "No anal SCCA rules."

The more competitive it gets, the more rules we will see. Just wait. Unless the judges start slapping down penalty laps as a leveler.

If they leave the rules up to interpretation, then they are the ones that need to be doing the interpretation. You bolt on a F&R JY sway bar , JY coil overs, a header, that's all going to cost some amount of $$, which will probably push most "$500" cars over the limit. So that implies penalty laps, maybe a few, should be awarded. for more radical cheaters, more laps. The crappiest, least likely to finish car should get zero laps, and that should be the baseline. It were a perfect systems, all cars would finish with the same number of laps at the end of the race (corrected, handicaped).

The interpretation of the rules is also getting divided between the racers and the "run what you brung" mentality. This is getting covered by the division of classes, but are there class prizes or is this just a trophy and title?? If the overall winner is getting the $1500, but the winner in ugly class gets $0, what's the incentive to bring something ugly, unless its cheap, your first time, or your gunning for IoE (index of effluence). maybe the $1500 should be split between the classes ($500 each) and the IoE winner still gets the $1501, which changes the focus more toward the fun crazy side of the equation, and away from the race winner.

If the overall winner in one class gets more $$$$ than the other classes, why would people want to race in those classes, unless its their first time? I like having fun, but if I can have fun and race for $1500 (or $1501 if I choose to take that path), well all the better. I'm going to put my lifetime experience and elbow grease into solving and fixing those problems that will get me to the finish line first and fastest, and under $500. A lot of elbow grease and some permatex can take a $300 JY car and make it run all weekend long. But that is not really "run what you brung"

Yeah, I've made pretty much the same arguments before. Myself, I don't like it being in "classes".. One is all you need if the "rolling parade float" idea is for real. I also think there should either be $0 for the win, or just a trophy, and give out that same amount of money across "classes" like Craziest engineering, best theme etc... As you mentioned, its getting more like the SCCA all the time, and if I have to invest $5k just to get on track, I'm going to go for the win... Easiest way to steer back to the original theme is to not reward the win at all. I was one that pushed for more money going to IOE than the win, but I think they didn't go far enough..

I'm torn on this subject.  I have to be honest the prize money was about (and still is) the LAST thing on my mind when it comes to these races.  And I surely didn't spend close to $4,000 building a "race car" to win $1,500 that doesn't make much financial sense.  And considering how many people show up to these things spending less or more than me and my team, I just think there's more to it.  Heck guys spend WAY more money to go SCCA/NASA racing to win a plastic trophy. 

IMO racers want to race, and if you took away the monetary prize there is no way guys would not still show up with well sorted cars pushing harder and harder for the win.  And if they spent a lot of time/money to set the car up they will push just as hard.  Its just not about the money.   The only thing I could see is if they took the money out for the race win but kept it in for IOE/ugliest car/etc, you might see the fast guys put a little more effort into making their car look good(bad), but in the end they would probably never get to the level to win the cash.

Tom Lomino - Proud to be a 23x Lemons Loser, 3x Class B, and 1x IOE Winner!
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  • From: Frisco, Texas
  • Registered: 2009-05-02
  • Posts: 1,430

Re: How many honestly stay under $500?

RogueLeader wrote:

IMO racers want to race, and if you took away the monetary prize there is no way guys would not still show up with well sorted cars pushing harder and harder for the win.  And if they spent a lot of time/money to set the car up they will push just as hard.  Its just not about the money.   The only thing I could see is if they took the money out for the race win but kept it in for IOE/ugliest car/etc, you might see the fast guys put a little more effort into making their car look good(bad), but in the end they would probably never get to the level to win the cash.

Yep, now you've got it exactly.. Now, I'm a racer that spends a lot for plastic trophies, and I'll still show up and want to win, but for those that don't have the experience, skill, car etc to run up front, we still want it to be fun don't we? That's why I say give that money out for othe rprizes.... just thinking aloud here. Once it gets to the leval of SCCA, then that is a better venue where I can race my "nice" car.

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75 Reply by Jer

  • Jer
  • Jer
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Re: How many honestly stay under $500?

We don't run for the 1500.  we run for the fame, glory, and sense of accomplishment.  Keeping the dollars as they are will help keep the cheaters in line, because they're not going to be re-imbursed with prize money for the cheaty money spent.

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2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)

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