Topic: 16" wheels for E30

Hey guys,

My team is looking for some new wheels for our 1987 E30. The 14" bottle caps just aren't doing it as we can't get our falken tires for them any more. There are 15" rims out there all day long on the cheap for E30s, but we figure that if we are going to drop some coin on new rims, we may as well get some 16s, or dare I say 17s, if we're going to be dropping cash anyways - the tires aren't that much more for the plus sizes anyways. I know this has probably been asked on here before, but I couldn't find anything by doing a search. I've scoured the internet trying to find what will work, but most of the wheels on the bimmer forums are high-dollar pieces, and I can't seem to make sense of backspacing and offsets to find what will work on my own. Any enlightenment will be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Re: 16" wheels for E30

For an E30 you want a 4x100 lug spacing, 57.1mm centerbore, and offset around 27mm, depending on wheel width. 

There are plenty of 4x100 wheels around for FWD cars, but they do not fit on E30's without spacers. 

Lots of E30's run Rota wheels, and there are usually deals out there on Slipstreams or RBs that are made to fit directly on the E30. 

Having had one for 7+ years, I would suggest sticking with the 15" wheels, as 16" tires are hard to find and 17's are starting to get big for the E30.  A 15"x7" or 15x8 will let you fit plenty of widely available, fairly inexpensive tires and give you a performance bump, but be a bit more forgiving.

Chris from 3 Pedal Mafia

3 (edited by boon_doggin 2010-06-16 05:11 PM)

Re: 16" wheels for E30

Sonic wrote:

For an E30 you want a 4x100 lug spacing, 57.1mm centerbore, and offset around 27mm, depending on wheel width. 

There are plenty of 4x100 wheels around for FWD cars, but they do not fit on E30's without spacers. 

Lots of E30's run Rota wheels, and there are usually deals out there on Slipstreams or RBs that are made to fit directly on the E30. 

Having had one for 7+ years, I would suggest sticking with the 15" wheels, as 16" tires are hard to find and 17's are starting to get big for the E30.  A 15"x7" or 15x8 will let you fit plenty of widely available, fairly inexpensive tires and give you a performance bump, but be a bit more forgiving.

Thanks for the heads up. Any reason not to go for 16s other than tire size? Because our tire of choice comes in a 215/45/16, which we were thinking would be pretty decent.

And do you know of spacers that will make FWD applications work? Or is that just asking for trouble?

4 (edited by Mulry 2010-06-17 08:24 AM)

Re: 16" wheels for E30

boon_doggin wrote:

Thanks for the heads up. Any reason not to go for 16s other than tire size?

If you don't pay attention to your sidewall height, going to bigger wheels can mean that you are going to a larger diameter tire. The practical effects of this are (1) your speedometer and odometer aren't accurate anymore unless you reprogram or swap them (no biggie for Lemons) and (2) you are effectively gearing down your car, which means that you'll get more distance per revolution, but it could hurt your acceleration too. Since the strong suit of the e30 isn't monster horsepower, you might want to consider if you want to hurt your acceleration potential. Or make sure to get a very low profile tire such that your overall diameter of wheel + tire is about the same as it was on the 14" tire/wheel combo. But those aren't going to be cheap, typically.

OTOH, it's not very difficult to find 14" Azenis that will fit your existing bottlecap wheels. The new K compound Azenis is getting good reviews. Ultimately, it is very unlikely that it is your wheel/tire combo that will have a dramatic effect on your result in a Lemons race. Sure, if your drivers are all very good and can stay out of black flag situations, and your pit stop procedure is down cold, then it's something to consider. But if you're a typical Lemons team, you'd be much better off spending the coin that you'll plunk down on new wheels & expensive larger tires on things that will make a real difference. Like driver training/practice days at the track. YMMV. Good luck.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: 16" wheels for E30

Short, stiff sidewalls and soft Lemons suspension will result in some horrific tire wear on the outside shoulders.

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Re: 16" wheels for E30

Ah, typical street car mentality. Big is cool, big is better, big is fast. Nope not always true. Now they do look cool, but it won't necessarily make your car faster.

The problem with wheels and tires is they are heavy. And bigger tires and wheels are heavier. But you get more grip, right? Dilemma. You will get more grip with a wider bigger tire, but only up to a point. Its one of those diminishing return thingies. Yes a 205/50/15 is better than a 165/70/14, but there are other things to consider. A rule of thumb is that every 1 lbs of wheel/tire weight is = to 3-4 lbs of car body weight. Did you spend a whole bunch of time stripping out the interior to make your car lighter and faster??? So an extra 3 lbs per wheel = 36-48 lbs of car weight.

More on being heavy: Inertia. This is the energy in the rotating mass (weight) of the wheel plus tire. Did you swap out that heavy flywheel for a lighter one to get better acceleration (or at least you were thinking about it??)? By putting on heavier wheels its like putting on a heavier flywheel, exactly the wrong direction for acceleration.

If you know how to calculate inertia, you can make a rough model of a wheel (a disk, and a ring), and a tire (two side disks and a ring). then you can look at the rotational energy require to spin a 14", 15" 17", and do a 22 or 24" while your working the spreadsheet. Going up two or three sizes can really take a lot more energy!!!.

So more tread = good for traction, but a 350/45/18 on a BMW with 185 Hp is probably a waste of tire.
Bigger tire means more tread, good.
Bigger outer diameter = higher gearing, more top speed (up to the limits of the engine Hp), but SLOWER acceleration.
Smaller outer diameter = faster acceleration, less top speed (did you calculate your top speed for the straight aways?? you'll probably never be able to hit max speed on any Lemons track so you don't need top speed). the shorter the track and the more turns, the more acceleration you want.
Heavier tire/wheel combination = SLOWER acceleration.

So if you want to move away from the 14", go to a 15" and look for wide rims that fit under your car. Look at the outer diameter of the tires (its listed in the specs page on most tire sites) and find the smaller diameter. maybe a 16".

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Re: 16" wheels for E30

I have somewhere near a 1500lb car, but running the not exactly light 16x7 Team Dynamics Monza R wheels probably negate the weight loss, although at this point  its progressed to removing captured nuts from the body tongue

Team Dai Hard Home Page

1989 Daihatsu Charade

8 (edited by boon_doggin 2010-06-19 11:38 AM)

Re: 16" wheels for E30

I understand the concerns about changing the gearing of the car and adding rotational mass, but we're not dealing with the stocker M20B25 in our car. We've got a Ford 302 swapped into it. Getting the tires rotating isn't our chief concern here. Plus, a few of our team members were hitting the shift light at the end of the straight at Thunderhill in 3rd gear (we're running a C4). We're not exactly geared for speed. That being said, we're not trying to make our gearing any taller. A 205/4016 actually shrinks our OD down 7/10", while a 215/45/16 takes us up 4/10". I'm not sure how much of a difference 4/10" of an inch will make, but I wouldn't assume it would add even 10mph to our top end. But I'm no expert by any means, so I may be completely off-base here.

What is our concern is the fact that Falken RT615k tires for a 14" rim have become difficult for us to get ahold of reliably. We've been able to get them before, but not other times. I know we don't want to add weight to the wheels adding unsprung weight and additional rotational force that is gonna work our brakes harder, but going with light rims might not actually make our wheels any heavier. Plus, the 205/40/16 Falken tire is actually lighter than the 195/60/14. And if we're gonna pay to replace the 14" wheels with light 15s, I figured that it would make as much sense to get some light 16s if we're already spending the money. Its gonna be a stiffer sidewall and a wider tire, both positives as far as I know.

The Rota Slipstreams look like they would work, and are pretty light at (allegedly 13.5lbs a wheel). Any other rims you guys have had success fitting to E30s.

Re: 16" wheels for E30

I'm in a similar situation.  At this point I am primarily focused on grip/sticky tires.  Doesn't matter how much power you make if you can't plant it.  The pursuit of traction and 14" and 15" wheels quickly narrows us down to Azenis and Dunlop Star Specs.  They have very limited 14" & 15" options.  The options increase in the 16s but you really need to get all the way to 17s to have much in the way of options.  There are also additional grippy tires available for bigger wheels.

Azenis RT615K:

195/60R14      $85
205/50R15      $104
205/40R16      $113
215/45R16      $126
225/50R16      $140

Dunlop Star Spec Z1:

185/60R14              $96.00 (ea.)   
195/60R14              $95.00 (ea.) 
195/50R15              $110.00 (ea.)   
195/55R15              $95.00 (ea.)
205/50R15              $107.00 (ea.)
205/50R16              $115.00 (ea.) 
205/55R16              $114.00 (ea.)
225/50R16              $124.00 (ea.)

I could not get the current sizes from Dunlops site so I think some of these are old sizes which Tirerack still has in stock.  I don't think they really have multiple 14" or 15" options.  The pricing between the Azenis and Dunlps are about the same now.

We have been running TOYO T1Rs in a 225/40r14 since our  first race.  Our overall gearing is about  4.38 due to the 21" tall tires.  We get lots of acceleration and the car is REALLY low!  Not so great for our exhaust.

While we are quick out of the turns, we end up needing 5th gear on long straights.  So we are into an overdrive gear as opposed to say a power gear.  In our case, I think we should try to keep the car in 3rd and 4th.

Gearing and weight are all factors to consider when looking at tires and wheels.

Power to grip is hard to quantify.

So is size versus compound in the pursuit of traction.  Is a wider 280 Treadwear going to offer more grip than a narrower 200?

Taller tires turn less RPMS per MPH which will help keep heat down and increase tire life.

There are many factors that can affect tire selection so it's hard to say which is best or for which applications.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: 16" wheels for E30

15 X 7s are the way to go, cheapest and fastest, anything else is just window dressing.

Gosh, my business card says 'Tech Tyrant'

Re: 16" wheels for E30

It's Lemons! Run 20's or go home smile


Pen

Re: 16" wheels for E30

Evil Genius wrote:

15 X 7s are the way to go, cheapest and fastest, anything else is just window dressing.

Window dressing? Really? Don't you guys run 17's on the V8olvo? That's just for show....?

Re: 16" wheels for E30

We have a set of 205 50 15s on our E30, Running the Dunlops.

I also have a spare set of 16s that I got off a junkyard Ford escort- they are aftermarket wheels that are a dual lug pattern. I do need 1/4 inch spacers in the front for them to fit properly.

We ran the Azenas on 14 bottle caps our first race they did OK but got greasy at the end. We then ran Toyos and Nittos on 15s  they were really good in the rain, but soft and wore fast. We tried Rs1 ? Hankooks,  Great tires in the Dry  terrible in the rain.
We will be running the Chump event in Miami in 2 weeks, its the 5th event for the car. We have Dunlops this time but I went up to a 300 + treadwear since the tires have to last 12 hours.

EuroTrash E30 - Lemons South 08 (cooling probs) 24th /CMP  Spring 09 (fuel tank damage) one day on track 69th /Lemons South 09 (Hit by an Escort) 27th
MSR Tx, 10 2oth, no issues other than rain. /CHump Homestead Miami 10- 2nd place.

Re: 16" wheels for E30

boon_doggin wrote:
Evil Genius wrote:

15 X 7s are the way to go, cheapest and fastest, anything else is just window dressing.

Window dressing? Really? Don't you guys run 17's on the V8olvo? That's just for show....?

Not my idea,  it was done for gearing and traction and the 17s probably helped blow up the diff.

The Mishat car runs 15 X 7s

Gosh, my business card says 'Tech Tyrant'

Re: 16" wheels for E30

We have two sets of 4x100, 16 inch rims. they are 8 inches wide and have 0 offset. They fit our 85 and 91 e30's. We did have to cut some of the fenders though. Let me know if you are interested in buying them.

Re: 16" wheels for E30

shrimpandboots wrote:

We have two sets of 4x100, 16 inch rims. they are 8 inches wide and have 0 offset. They fit our 85 and 91 e30's. We did have to cut some of the fenders though. Let me know if you are interested in buying them.

Possibly. We did literally just buy some 15" rims for our car yesterday, but if the price is right, I might snatch them up. Do you have pictures? And what is the weight per wheel? Our 15s we ordered are pretty light. So, I guess if they were cheap and light, I might pick them up. Let me know.

17 (edited by shrimpandboots 2010-06-28 09:40 AM)

Re: 16" wheels for E30

These are the rims
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/12/2010/05/500x_lnos10-topcars-05-500px.jpg

Re: 16" wheels for E30

Surprised nobody has mentioned TRM wheels in this thread.  Specific E30 fitments, 15x7, 7.5 and 8, light, and dirt cheap straight from TR.

Re: 16" wheels for E30

ProDarwin wrote:

Surprised nobody has mentioned TRM wheels in this thread.  Specific E30 fitments, 15x7, 7.5 and 8, light, and dirt cheap straight from TR.

The TR C1s in 15x7 is what we ended up ordering. They seem pretty light, but who knows how strong they are. I guess we'll find out.

Re: 16" wheels for E30

boon_doggin wrote:
ProDarwin wrote:

Surprised nobody has mentioned TRM wheels in this thread.  Specific E30 fitments, 15x7, 7.5 and 8, light, and dirt cheap straight from TR.

The TR C1s in 15x7 is what we ended up ordering. They seem pretty light, but who knows how strong they are. I guess we'll find out.

Designed for Spec Miata and Spec E30... I imagine pretty tough tongue

Re: 16" wheels for E30

Rise from the dead, thread! I actually found this thread while searching Google for wheel options on my car.

Other than the TR C1s, are there any other cheap 15x7 wheel options for E30s? The C1s were the cheapest new wheels I could find, but I'm totally not opposed to used/junkyard wheels.

I currently have two full sets of 14" bottlecaps with RT-615Ks. They work pretty damn well, but I want to get some wider rubber on the ground. Unfortunately $800+ for one new set of wheels/tires is a hard pill to swallow, and I'm not sure the cost to performance benefit is worth it.

The Homer: Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.

Re: 16" wheels for E30

shrimpandboots wrote:

We have two sets of 4x100, 16 inch rims. they are 8 inches wide and have 0 offset. They fit our 85 and 91 e30's. We did have to cut some of the fenders though. Let me know if you are interested in buying them.

$200 for one set, with tires that have been raced before but have some tread left. Plus shipping.

23 (edited by sbarton 2010-07-12 11:54 AM)

Re: 16" wheels for E30

LTDScott wrote:

Rise from the dead, thread! I actually found this thread while searching Google for wheel options on my car.

Other than the TR C1s, are there any other cheap 15x7 wheel options for E30s? The C1s were the cheapest new wheels I could find, but I'm totally not opposed to used/junkyard wheels.

The D-Force LTW5 15x7 13.25lbs for E30.  $104ea.  A lot of the BMWCCA racers are using them. 

-Scott

Scott Barton