1 (edited by Petroman 2010-06-21 10:05 PM)

Topic: What are our odds

Hello,
Team Petroman is new to 24 hours of Lemons and would like some advice. My team aquired a 1997 740i through the Dallas Craigslist 4 months ago. The car has a flood damaged title, a salvage title and a bonded title. We beleave the car was a Katrina victim. The car sat for 4 years  with drivers window open and was filled with trash and water. The owners husban thought the engine was fried. We put gas in it  and changed the oil .We put a new crank position sensor  from e-bay and a used power steering hose on it and it now runs and drives great, It has a laundry list of electrical problems on the dash due to corosion, but the drivetrain works fine .We aquired the car for a honest $300 dollars. My team is a friendlly group of people, we have  a great super hero theme that young and oid will be completely entertained with. What are the odds of this car type car making it on the track? Has anyone entered a mid to late 90's BMW 7 series? I have seen the video of the one that was crushed. We would like to know how much of a uphill battle this project would be before we invest the energy. Any advice would be well received .

Team Petroman
PS - Petroman has come to save the planet with petroleum based products!

2 (edited by Judge Jonny 2010-06-21 10:56 PM)

Re: What are our odds

From the Lemons FAQ (bold added by moi for emphasis):

"And even if your car survives out on the course, halfway through the race one entry will be chosen by popular ballot for immediate crushing. Could be yours. Heck, it probably WILL be yours. Be prepared.

"This is the scene where I get shot," Bronson said. "I have these little squibs that explode to make it look like bullets are hitting." "Fascinating," said Bergman. "I never knew how they did that." "You mean," asked Bronson, "you don't use machine guns in your movies?"

3 (edited by RogueLeader 2010-06-22 05:20 AM)

Re: What are our odds

can't access youtube here at work but someone needs to post the video of the LAST time someone brought the same car to Lemons!

edit: im an ass just saw he mentioned the video... 

IMO part the car, find something else, or find a way to use the drivetrain in something cool!

Tom Lomino - Proud to be a 23x Lemons Loser, 3x Class B, and 1x IOE Winner!
Craptain, Team Farfrumwinnin - 1995 Volkswagen Golf #14
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Re: What are our odds

RogueLeader wrote:

find a way to use the drivetrain in something cool!

This.

Lemons South 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Spring 2009 - Fail, Lemons Detroit(ish) 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Fall 2009 - Fail, Lamest Day 2009 - Fail, Miami 2010 (Chump) - 2nd!, Sebring 2010 (Chump) - Fail, Cuba 2010 - Crew Chief, Roebling 2011 (Chump) - 8th!, Sebring 2011(Chump) - 19th!

Re: What are our odds

A 140 chassis S-Class just won at C/O, go for it!  You stand no greater or less of a chance than any other pile out there.

Rich DeFrancisco
Chump Change Racing aka "The Bridesmaids"
1986 BMW 535im
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?topic … 8418604559

Re: What are our odds

I prefer E38s to E30s and E36s in Lemons.

That said, we'd be overjoyed to see a Volvo 740 with a BMW 740i engine: Volvo 740i! How hard could it be?

7 (edited by thomasfoolary 2010-06-22 03:01 PM)

Re: What are our odds

Modelwerks wrote:

A 140 chassis S-Class just won at C/O, go for it!  You stand no greater or less of a chance than any other pile out there.

+1
If you honestly picked it up for 300 and don't drive like an ass on the track, you probably won't be the people's curse. IMHO, I wouldn't try to do some out of this world engine swap for your first race. Like with other things, your first time is about feeling things out and trying not to finish too early. Do your super hero theme, pound out some laps, and have fun.

86 Honda Prelube - Team Inspite: Rabid Hybrid Racing

8 (edited by FJ40Jim 2010-06-22 08:33 PM)

Re: What are our odds

There was a 7xx bimmer at NL last fall.  IIRC, it didn't turn many laps, don't remember why.

Bring the bimmer to a race.  Don't drive like a douche.  You'll be fine.

PS I think the cursed car the OP refers to was a heavily modded 540i.

Jim C.
If God meant for us to race, we'd all have baggy Nomex skin.
08TMS.09NL.10GM, SP, NL.11SP, NL.12SP, VIR, NL.13GM, NJ.14NJ, VIR, WGI.15AB.16GM.17NCM.18GM.19...

Re: What are our odds

Put all the garbage back in the car. Run with a Katrina victim theme.

Dudes Ex Machina: https://www.facebook.com/dudesexmachina

?Everyone who has ever built anywhere a 'new heaven' first found the power thereto in his own hell- Frederick Nietzsche

Re: What are our odds

IIRC, the 740i at Lamest Day got t-boned, but what put it out of the race for good was computer failure. I'd bet that Murilee remembers this better than me, I think he had good photos of the driver's side t-bone damage.

As SpeedyCop can attest (it appears), the main downside of the big Bimmers is that you just can't run them without their computers all being attached and talking to one another in properly accented Bavarian. And unfortunately, those are the kind of gremlins that often don't fix cheap.

All that said, strip it down and run it. I like the Katrina theme idea, but what I really like is the idea of making it a roadster.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

11 (edited by AllYaGottaDoIs 2010-06-23 05:04 PM)

Re: What are our odds

Mulry wrote:

the main downside of the big Bimmers is that you just can't run them without their computers all being attached and talking to one another in properly accented Bavarian.

Not to sidetrack the discussion, but I keep thinking that's going to be a bigger problem with everything as time goes on. (Actually I was thinking that from another thread speculating about which of today's cars would be popular for Lemons 2025... and I was thinking, not a single current-model production V8 will run without an entire dashboard full of computers doing all sorts of nonsense that used to be accomplished by a couple metal rods and some screws.)

The Spanish Armada
'51 DeSoto, car #1539: Featuring authentic 16th century engineering

Re: What are our odds

Yes, I don't wanna lemon-ize a '95-newer OBDII vehicle, because as soon as the cats and stock airbox go in the trash, it's gonna light the MIL, throw eleventeen codes and go to limp mode.

Jim C.
If God meant for us to race, we'd all have baggy Nomex skin.
08TMS.09NL.10GM, SP, NL.11SP, NL.12SP, VIR, NL.13GM, NJ.14NJ, VIR, WGI.15AB.16GM.17NCM.18GM.19...

Re: What are our odds

Eh. I dunno about that. Every early OBDII car I've ever dicked with had no problems losing the airbox (as long as you kept the appropriate sensors in place) and most of them will only throw codes but not limp the motor if they lose the post-cat O2 sensor. Most models also have an emulator for that stupid-assed sensor available.

Until very recently, domestic cars still had computer setups which were essentially just simple analog sensors plugged into a box. No digital skills required at all. Of course, domestic cars from the whole era in question kind of sucked, and the Europeans in particular were way ahead in shoving needless digital systems into their cars, which will be trickier to get around than a simple mostly-analog system.

Yeah, in the coming years oscilloscopes and soldering irons will become as vital to the build process as welders, but not for awhile yet. And teams that can't manage that level of expertise can always just run something older or SHOCK HORROR run stock parts.

Driver, Pit Monkey, Rod Buster and Engine Fire Starter
Team FinalGear

Re: What are our odds

Nah, somebody will build a $10 equivalent to the Megasquirt that'll make these motors run. It'll be a wallet sized plastic brick with twenty wires hanging out the end of it. You'll just run the wires and fire it up.

Re: What are our odds

Plenty of cars don't have "limp" modes at all.

And the Bimmer at Nelson Ledges was an E32 V12 750iL (same vintage as the V12 in our Tbird, incidentally) which has a wiring harness that looks like this:

http://i48.tinypic.com/2rwb3ep.jpg

Official photographer/Team Police Brutality|Speedycop & the Gang
Lackey-mechanic-whatever/NSF Racing
Sycophant/Judge Phil, Jay Lamm, Kim Harmon
Galaxie Driver/not Parnelli Jones

Re: What are our odds

Team Petroman would like to think everyone for their commits. Some great ideas and intelligent incites have been floated.  The idea of a Volvo 740 \ BMW 740 mix is a intriguing twist, applying Volvo 740 front sheet metal and grill on the BMW body could be easy accomplished. Leveraging the Katrina theme is a great idea. The idea of a 740 roadster would offer many advantages, such as light weight. I do not believe that the intake or exhaust modifications will be an issue with the computer. I have done these mods on many, ODB1 BMW V12’s and several, ODBII V8’s with great success. With the type of abuse the car will receive in the race, malfunctions with the cars ODBII electronics is a real fear. I could see us easily throwing engine or transmission program codes and going in into limp home mode.  Most likely the codes could be cleared in a 3+ min pit stop. A custom built performance chip for this specific application could help, allowing codes that would normally side line a car running a stock chip. Regarding the vision of what 24hours of Lemons will looks like in 15 years, the Team Captain of The Rusty Nuts was dead on, Computerization! I recently built a Mega-Squirt to replace the world’s first computer controlled engine management, a weber-marelli on my 1986 Aston Martin Lagonda with the famous quad cam V8 and it has open my eyes to the possibilities. This technology will only get more robust, capable of easily replacing the cars original complex production computers. Custom built engine computers will pull the most performance out of these engines adjusting for modifications on the fly and capable of programming itself by just driving the car. Automatic transmission with enhanced computers technology that will out performs manuals. Transmission shift points will be optimized and mapped for each race course as well as learn the driver’s style and apply it. ABS breaking systems correcting out of control situations on the track. Paddle shifters on the steering wheel, will all become the norm in the future.

Re: What are our odds

A custom built engine management computer within this kind of budget?

The Spanish Armada
'51 DeSoto, car #1539: Featuring authentic 16th century engineering

18 (edited by fifty 2010-06-27 05:20 AM)

Re: What are our odds

AllYaGottaDoIs wrote:

A custom built engine management computer within this kind of budget?

Roger that!

I built my last Megasquirt for $140
www.msefi.com

and ... http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/mega … -p-28.html

Re: What are our odds

AllYaGottaDoIs wrote:

A custom built engine management computer within this kind of budget?

I was able to turnkey the entire Mega-Squirt for the Aston Martin v8 for under $200.00 dollars! I mapped over the entire grouping of the existing Bosch sensor on the car and the price listed above included a new Bosch o2 sensor, because the first generation computer technology did not use one.  It would have cost $90.00 less if the car had a factory o2 sensor and if I took the time to build my own wiring harness verses using a pre-made one. This technology will only get better and cheaper in 15 years.

Re: What are our odds

I keep wondering if an arduino board would be fast enough to control an engine (with the proper relays, etc.)

One day, Mister ffffffffffffffffox!

Re: What are our odds

Akaishi wrote:

I keep wondering if an arduino board would be fast enough to control an engine (with the proper relays, etc.)

probably. It's not the hardware that's the issue, it's the software. There's a lot of development in the Megasquirt software.

These guys have a chip on their shoulder about Megasquirt and are trying to develop their own, but it's been slooooow going:  http://www.diyefi.org/

Re: What are our odds

It's been a while since I checked the megasquirt forums. I didn't realize they already made such a box, but for $350, not $10.

http://www.microsquirt.com/