Topic: F&*ked up the ignition

Sitting here feeling like torching the 92 grand prix that I already have the roll cage in, brakes purchased, interior gutted and gas tank reinstalled.
I had the roll cage sandblasted but forgot to cover up the steering column.  So now the ignition key will barely turn, the engine won't crank, and the electric system will briefly flash on.  I have tried using compressed air but it isn't helping.  The key will turn but not the full motion.  The car has fuel injection and I don't know if it is possible to just rig up an ignition switch. 
Is it possible to replace whole steering column?  The grand prix has the ignition contacts up inside the column.  Can the wiring harness be disconnected, the column unbolted and taken out?
I would take any advice besides don't be a dumb@ss and forget to cover the column when sandblasting.

Re: F&*ked up the ignition

If criminals can figure out how to turn on a car without a key, surely you can.

In our car ('84 Celica Supra) the ignition connects into the body's wiring harness underneath the steering column with a 6 pin connector.  I know for a fact that if I short pins 1 and 6 the main electrical system will be on.  Then you just add pin 3 to those two and the starter motor will crank.

If you can find a place to mount a toggle switch and a button, you can definitely bypass the stock ignition switch.  You just need to figure out which wires are which.  The Haynes manual for our car has that info, so I'm sure there's something similar for yours.

Re: F&*ked up the ignition

All our cars have fuel injection and have had thier ignitions removed and are driven off switches.  It requires you have wiring diagram so that you know what wires need to get connected.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: F&*ked up the ignition

Factory shop manual, $30 shipped.

Get the wiring diagram and hook up your own ignition and starter switches. Shouldn't be too hard. Definitely easier than replacing the whole steering column. In any case, you're better off without the steering wheel lock in a race car.

Re: F&*ked up the ignition

Once I got away from the car, had a beer and thought about it, I am going to rig up the switches.  This is such a great learning experience!

6 (edited by EyeMWing 2010-07-13 04:50 PM)

Re: F&*ked up the ignition

The Complete Idiot's Guide to Building a Switch-based Ignition (Also, how to hotwire a car):

1) Get your wiring diagram. (If you can't find one, use the forum's email function and let me know. I've got one for damn near every car sold in America for the past 50 years)
2) Locate the following tires going to the ignition switch:
- Accessory (Will connect to one or more relays or fuses)
- Ignition (Will connect to a relay or fuse)
- Starter (Will connect to a relay or fuse)
3) Make note of any "other" wires that go to the ignition switch assembly and make note of what they go to. One of them will either be a 12v always hot (goes to the battery positive, possibly via a fuse) or a ground (goes to either chassis, another ground, or to battery negative). This 12v hot or ground will be called, for our purposes, the "power wire". If you have both a ground and a 12v hot, then you need to read and comprehend the part of the diagram that has to do with how the original ignition switch worked.
4) Connect a regular ol toggle switch between the Accessory line and the power wire. Flip the switch and notice your radio and shit comes on, just like you put the key in the accessory slot.
5) Connect another regular ol toggle switch between the ignition line and the power wire. Flip the switch and notice the car responds just like you put the key in the ignition slot.
6) Connect a momentary pushbutton between the power wire and the starter line. Push it and note the engine cranks.

How to use it:
1) Turn on the accessory power and ignition power.
2) Push the starter button.

My starter doesn't crank!
1) Are you sure it worked in the first place?
2) Examine your wiring diagram for any interlock circuits. Using a multimeter, check to make sure those interlock circuits are doing what's expected of them, and if they aren't, fix them.... Or if you don't know how to make sure they're working, just bypass them. If you don't know how to do that, I suppose I can help you.

My starter works, but the engine won't start!
1) Did you turn on the ignition switch?
2) Did your engine EVER start?
3) Check the diagram for interlocks on the ignition circuit. This could be things like a security system, or a goddamn electronic coded key. Bypass them.



Fancy modifications:
A) Technically, you don't need two switches for accessory and ignition - you can just tie the two lines together on the same half of the switch.
B) Technically, you don't need that switch at all, because you need a killswitch that interrupts the ignition circuit anyway. Use a 4 pole killswitch with the battery disconnect across one pair of poles and the ignition/accessory switch setup on the other pair. Note that you will need to shut off your killswitch to power down the ignition system, which may or may not be a good idea, depending on a variety of factors.

Wiring in your killswitch:
If you didn't do B from the mods section, then just take your power wire from the ignition switch and run it through the second set of poles on the kill switch. It'll perform the same function, but BOTH switches will have to be in the on position to function, and either one can be shut off to remove power from the ignition system (the battery will continue to supply power to other systems if you don't shut off the killswitch, though).


Bonus feature - Hotwiring a car:
Find the ignition, accessory, starter and power wires. Cut them, strip them. Twist accessory, ignition and power wires together. Touch the starter wire to the unshielded bundle to operate the starter. If this doesn't work, the car is either broken, has a security system, or has an electronic key.

Extra safety (at the end for darwinism): Pull apart the stock ignition switch assembly and physically remove the goddamn steering wheel lock. God only knows if that thing's going to try to kill you in the middle of turn 1 or not.

Driver, Pit Monkey, Rod Buster and Engine Fire Starter
Team FinalGear

Re: F&*ked up the ignition

EyeMWing wrote:

Fancy modifications:
A) Technically, you don't need two switches for accessory and ignition - you can just tie the two lines together on the same half of the switch.
B) Technically, you don't need that switch at all, because you need a killswitch that interrupts the ignition circuit anyway. Use a 4 pole killswitch with the battery disconnect across one pair of poles and the ignition/accessory switch setup on the other pair. Note that you will need to shut off your killswitch to power down the ignition system, which may or may not be a good idea, depending on a variety of factors.

On B) - Please have a way to shut the car off from the drivers seat.  The main power kill switch isn't always within reach of the driver.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: F&*ked up the ignition

If you think you ever might want to compete in that other crapcan racing series, DO put a kill switch within reach of the driver.  They require it.  Easier to do these things once than twice.

In fact, you'd be wise to read through all of the rules for any series that you might possibly want to compete in and be aware of the differences.  A minor change to your plan now could save a lot of hassle later.

Lemons South 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Spring 2009 - Fail, Lemons Detroit(ish) 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Fall 2009 - Fail, Lamest Day 2009 - Fail, Miami 2010 (Chump) - 2nd!, Sebring 2010 (Chump) - Fail, Cuba 2010 - Crew Chief, Roebling 2011 (Chump) - 8th!, Sebring 2011(Chump) - 19th!

Re: F&*ked up the ignition

EyeMWing wrote:

The Complete Idiot's Guide to Building a Switch-based Ignition

(stands and applauds)

+1. Well done, sir. Brilliant. Should be stickied as its own post. Bravo!

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: F&*ked up the ignition

You're entering a first gen W body? My hat is off to you, transverse mono rear leafspring. We had a 92 Regal (exact same car save for sheetmetal and engine) that we were getting ready last summer, but even if the engine block hadn't turned out to be cracked we would have probably ditched it anyway because of the lack of parts available.

Team Final Gear Crew Chief
#138 1997 Pontiac GTP - Supercharged 3800
#42   1999 Ford P71 Crown Vic

Re: F&*ked up the ignition

Well I now know what the name of the weird rear suspension is.  The car runs very well and is very solid.  I am not really worried about winning.  Don't get me wrong, I would love to win.  But our odds are slightly better than if we didn't race at all.  Our goal is to race hard as we can, and have alot of fun.  I look at some of the cars that run and I know that we won't be the slowest thing on the track!  Least I hope we won't be the slowest!

Re: F&*ked up the ignition

pull the steering column cover
Drill off the two bolts holding on the ignition switch
Remove connector from back of ignition switch, throw away ignition switch. You need to do this to override the steering column lock.

Get a wiring diagram for your car
get 2 good switches, one ON/OFF, one momenetary push button.

Wire the ON/OFF Switch with all the wires in the connector that "run the car"
Wire the Push button switch with only the Starter circuit wire.

Turn ON the ON/OFF switch to turn on the car
Push the starter switch to start the engine.

Piece of Pie. Very race car too. Install all switches in a nice Aluminum/Steel panel within the drivers easy reach. Looks just like race car shit.

Dudes Ex Machina: https://www.facebook.com/dudesexmachina

?Everyone who has ever built anywhere a 'new heaven' first found the power thereto in his own hell- Frederick Nietzsche

Re: F&*ked up the ignition

shabah210 wrote:

Well I now know what the name of the weird rear suspension is.

http://pic.phyrefile.com/p/pu/punisherbass/2009/06/22/LeMons_Buick_6.JPG

You could always say to yourself "we have the same kind of suspension that a corvette has!", it's what we did. After we found out about the engine, we made a profit selling it for scrap.

Team Final Gear Crew Chief
#138 1997 Pontiac GTP - Supercharged 3800
#42   1999 Ford P71 Crown Vic

14 (edited by EyeMWing 2010-07-14 10:55 PM)

Re: F&*ked up the ignition

That's when you know you got the car for a good price - when the scrapyard gives you more for it than you paid.

Driver, Pit Monkey, Rod Buster and Engine Fire Starter
Team FinalGear

Re: F&*ked up the ignition

I just bridged my all the ignition switch wires, then used the cutoff switch for ignition.

Team Dai Hard Home Page

1989 Daihatsu Charade

Re: F&*ked up the ignition

That car might also have a GM "passkey"  like our Camaro.  Its easy enough to disable, but something else to consider if the car won't start after you get rid of the stock ignition switch

Team Sucker Punch: Winner Class B Doing Time at Joliet 2023 Autobahn ,Winner Org Choice award Were the Elite Meet to Cheat 2015
Chevy Camaro (Tiger striped #38)  (1989-2017 RIP old friend)
Chevy Corvette 1984......and still racing!