The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Newcomers → How many cars get claimed?
Just kind of curious how often rule 1.4 is invoked.
Seems like even if you stuck to the $500 limit perfectly it would still be a huge loss for your car to be claimed since the cage and all the safety equipment are generally worth a lot more than the $500 crapcan their attached to.
Once, I think.
KT
Rule 1.4 is the claiming rule. AFAIK, trekkor's right. There was a Benz S-Class v-12 coupe that ran one of the California races late last year (Arse-Freeze?) with a history of being seized in a drug forfeiture and a whole bunch of other story. It was too heavy on track and the team kind of begged Jay to claim it just so they wouldn't have to haul it all the way back to southern California.
The curse hardly happens anymore since the debacle at Nelson Ledges last year when a 944 got crushed as the majority-vote winner but still only had like 20 votes out of 100+ cars. Jay changed the Curse balloting rule afterward such that a failure to vote constitutes a vote to crush nobody. A team has to get 50%+1 of the crush votes to get the Curse now.
This may have something to do with an elevated sense of cheat on the part of some teams recently. IJS.
It should be whatever car may get more than 50% of the received votes.
That way, if you only 20 votes are cast, but 15 are for the same car... Buh Bye!
The lack of destruction is disturbing. I think the problem is that half of the time people forget about the curse during the day. I wonder if Jay and the boys reminded people more during the day if it would help.
It should be whatever car may get more than 50% of the received votes.
That way, if you only 20 votes are cast, but 15 are for the same car... Buh Bye!
Sounds right to me... particularly if the car with the majority of votes cast got significant BS laps and is therefore in cheaterific question to begin with. I think a lot of people are so busy wrenching and applying bailing wire & Billy Mays magic fix-it tape to their heaps that they just forget to drop the vote in.
BTW, I heard at Stafford that one of the civics got 500 laps, anyone know if there's an entertaining story behind that?
Only 1 car has been Claimed so far and it was the Mercedes Mulry talked about.
Sergio is referring to cursed Miatas in the Gulf Coast region. Kent Carter had 3 Miatas get curses, they bailed the last time. FYI, he was a Judge in Dallas at Eagles Canyon and still races a Karmin Gia.
Regarding the Curse, I am very happy with the new policy. You still only have to have a majority vote to get cursed. No One Deserves has been the majority for a long time.
So let me explain. You have a 100 car field with several aggressively driven cars.
You've got:
#14, a Boobed out SHO driving like a bunch of idiots
#47, an flying Integra that likes to bump and crowd people too
#11, a Miata that's driving fine but it's still a Miata
#78, an E30 that's driving pretty okay but its too shiny.
Ballot counting time:
#14 SHO: 27 votes
#47 Integra: 29 votes
#11 Miata: 8 votes
#78 E30: 11 votes
No One 25 votes
In this case the #47 Integra gets Cursed with less than 50% but still has a majority.
Even if you get Cursed now, you can buy your way out it via a $1000 donation.
Has no one else noticed that long about the same time cars stopped being crushed, Jonny, Phil, and Jay were collecting more wrist bands?
The Judges are Santa; they know who is naughty and who is flat out, just being a douche. Us naughty drivers are allowed our hoonage, and the D-bags are shown the trailer before they can get a crush vote.
The Judges are Santa; they know who is naughty and who is flat out, just being a douche. Us naughty drivers are allowed our hoonage, and the D-bags are shown the trailer before they can get a crush vote.
The STS crew worked as part of the judging at Stafford. It was eye opening.
With the clamp donw on the black flags, 5 and you are trailered, the driving has become a lot more sane. I absolutely hated calling in the early "2 wheels off" penalties there. But sure enough - those cars that were called in for the 2 offs were the cars that were getting called for contact and spins later in the day.
Has no one else noticed that long about the same time cars stopped being crushed, Jonny, Phil, and Jay were collecting more wrist bands?
The Judges are Santa; they know who is naughty and who is flat out, just being a douche. Us naughty drivers are allowed our hoonage, and the D-bags are shown the trailer before they can get a crush vote.
Yep, I think there's a connection.
I wish "the crush" would go away. Sure, it makes the point, but too strongly, and bitterly. I'd prefer to see the car removed from the race, put on display for Sharpie commentary and ridicule, then banned from Lemons. Let the team take the car somewhere else to race if they want, but make them start from scratch with another car if they want to continue in Lemons.
I wish "the crush" would go away. Sure, it makes the point, but too strongly, and bitterly. I'd prefer to see the car removed from the race, put on display for Sharpie commentary and ridicule, then banned from Lemons. Let the team take the car somewhere else to race if they want, but make them start from scratch with another car if they want to continue in Lemons.
It pretty much has gone away. You have to be driving like a true asshole to get crushed now, and even then you can buy your way out of it. If you want to get banned, you can also just run.
Has no one else noticed that long about the same time cars stopped being crushed, Jonny, Phil, and Jay were collecting more wrist bands?
The Judges are Santa; they know who is naughty and who is flat out, just being a douche. Us naughty drivers are allowed our hoonage, and the D-bags are shown the trailer before they can get a crush vote.
Oooooo..... Don't mention Santa or Mulry's head is going to explode.
The curse hardly happens anymore since the debacle at Nelson Ledges last year when a 944 got crushed as the majority-vote winner but still only had like 20 votes out of 100+ cars. Jay changed the Curse balloting rule afterward such that a failure to vote constitutes a vote to crush nobody. A team has to get 50%+1 of the crush votes to get the Curse now.
Technically, that Porsche wasn't crushed, it was fed some of that sodium silicate crap used for the Cash For Clunkers program which was provided by one of our drivers. Phil said they didn't think that car had done anything to deserve the curse so they only poured a little into the crankcase to give it a fighting chance, but that was enough to kill the engine.
It's simple. Don't bring a hella cheaty car, and don't drive like an asshat. Help anyone who you can, ask for help when you need it, and have fun. You will not get in to trouble, I promise. If I am not mistaken, the guys whose car got claimed went in to the event pretty much knowing the car would get claimed, and were not upset in the least bit when it was claimed. Something about the most awful intake to remove, and 47, 000 miles of vacuum line, iirc.
m610 wrote:I wish "the crush" would go away. Sure, it makes the point, but too strongly, and bitterly. I'd prefer to see the car removed from the race, put on display for Sharpie commentary and ridicule, then banned from Lemons. Let the team take the car somewhere else to race if they want, but make them start from scratch with another car if they want to continue in Lemons.
It pretty much has gone away. You have to be driving like a true asshole to get crushed now, and even then you can buy your way out of it. If you want to get banned, you can also just run.
yep. it's really only the teams that really deserve it now. and sometimes not even them.
It's simple. Don't bring a hella cheaty car, and don't drive like an asshat. Help anyone who you can, ask for help when you need it, and have fun. You will not get in to trouble, I promise. If I am not mistaken, the guys whose car got claimed went in to the event pretty much knowing the car would get claimed, and were not upset in the least bit when it was claimed. Something about the most awful intake to remove, and 47, 000 miles of vacuum line, iirc.
Although I'm definitely a "rookie" (having only participated in one race), I'd have to agree 100% with this statement. The people who "get it" are out there for fun, with winning being a much, much less important goal. If you're having fun, you're doing it right. If you're uptight and dickish, that's when you have to worry about the Curse.
--Bob
ps. I almost wrote "competed" instead of "participated", but then I realized that we were no competition for anybody. It was still awesome.
It's simple. Don't bring a hella cheaty car, and don't drive like an asshat. Help anyone who you can, ask for help when you need it, and have fun. You will not get in to trouble, I promise.
Rationally I know this, but now that I'm actually investing the blood, sweat, tears, and dollars on a car instead of just driving someone else's I keep thinking how devastated I would be if our car got claimed or cursed. Even if the likelihood of its happening is really low, the emotional cost is so high that it still scares me a little, but the responses so far certainly ease my mind.
davisriley wrote:It's simple. Don't bring a hella cheaty car, and don't drive like an asshat. Help anyone who you can, ask for help when you need it, and have fun. You will not get in to trouble, I promise.
Rationally I know this, but now that I'm actually investing the blood, sweat, tears, and dollars on a car instead of just driving someone else's I keep thinking how devastated I would be if our car got claimed or cursed. Even if the likelihood of its happening is really low, the emotional cost is so high that it still scares me a little, but the responses so far certainly ease my mind.
I can't agree with you more. In my opinion, many curse supporters are not car owners/builders. Very few teams seem to have even ownership in cars. Most cars are owned and built by a small group.
Point is, I did most of the work and funding of my car and I know the effort that's in it. I'd hate to see it get trashed. Someone will have to be really bad to get my vote.
Part of me would find it funny to see our car crushed... but most of me would be very sad about it for two reasons (especially now):
1. We really broke our asses working on it this year and last, and I've really come to love it, we have finally almost got it sorted...
2. My fellow participants would feel that strongly that my team was driving and acting like such a bunch of d-bags that we deserved to get crunched.
In the past it was more like you had to vote for someone... now if someone votes for you and you get crushed you know you're a douche. The 5 black flags probably helped, last year we had a few choices of who to vote for, this year we cast a vote but only because the team we voted for punted our car while we were in class lead giving us (and them) a 1 hour penalty (and ending that lead run). I prettymuch knew my vote was useless for these guys (they weren't driving great but they weren't so bad that I imagined they pissed off too many people) , I also knew it was just a racing incident and I'm sure they probably didn't do it deliberately, but I felt better doing it anyway.
As for claiming our car I don't think that would ever happen.... Jay and crew would refuse to OVERPAY so much by giving us $500.
It is important having the curse and claiming in the rules. I was explaining Lemons last week to someone and right after the questions asking if this is actually real, involved what is to stop him from bring a cheaty car. He decided not it wasn't worth cheating after telling him about the curse, claiming cars and finally the judges. But really the curse and claiming is what made him decide it wasn't worth it. Some people will always take a chance of sneaking one past the judges, but not if it will end up getting having to sell the car for $500 or get it wrecked.
As for the curse if people want it more I think it would have to stop always destroying the car. Maybe if you have less than 50% of the eligible votes but are the top vote getter maybe there can be some sort of horrible team punishment that will be annoying, embarrassing, and really really funny for everyone else to watch. The judges and other Lemons staff can determine if the people could race again or have to trailer it afterward, but at least they can keep their car and might be able to race it again.
I wish "the crush" would go away. Sure, it makes the point, but too strongly, and bitterly. I'd prefer to see the car removed from the race, put on display for Sharpie commentary and ridicule, then banned from Lemons. Let the team take the car somewhere else to race if they want, but make them start from scratch with another car if they want to continue in Lemons.
I like this idea. Right now the curse and claim only serves as an incentive to not join the series. I've approached countless people to try to enter a car and the idea is shot down immediately when they read the rules. They understand cheating and poor driving is ill-advised, but it's the idea of the worst case scenario can be brought about in an undeserved, subjective manner that makes them not want to try it at all.
The risk of seeing my entry fees go to waste is enough for me.
Right now the curse and claim only serves as an incentive to not join the series. I've approached countless people to try to enter a car and the idea is shot down immediately when they read the rules. They understand cheating and poor driving is ill-advised, but it's the idea of the worst case scenario can be brought about in an undeserved, subjective manner that makes them not want to try it at all.
The risk of seeing my entry fees go to waste is enough for me.
Good, tell them to race elsewhere... You will only be crushed/claimed if you're cheating or driving like an asshat. period. It will never be 'undeserved' never. Jay has seen to that. People who come into the race worrying about those things are usually Porsche drivers that like to win by spending money and cheating. I've been around these races for a long time. Never has a team that is sleeping in a tent, next to their open trailer pulled by a 1980 F-150 told me they were worrying about being crushed, usually they offer beer and food and want to talk cars. Now, how many times has a member of a Toter-home borne, SCCA/NASA/PCA patch covered suit team come up to me hopping from foot to foot asking if I can intercede with Jay on their penalty laps? Do I know the people's curse vote? Why does 2 wheels off count as a penalty? Will Jay Claim our car? Yep, 'countless' times...
The teams I know that do well, don't even think about the curse or claiming.. Why should they? They play within the spirit of the rules and take their lumps when they make mistakes or overspend on their cars.
The risk of seeing my entry fees go to waste is enough for me.
and how is this different if you actually run the full race without being crushed?
Claiming never phased anyone on my team, the curse always worried people a bit. Whenever voting is involved you just don't know what will happen, so its always a possibility to get crushed for no good reason. Then again being from Chicago we all assume each time you vote its rigged anyway.
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