Topic: pistons, rings, and bore sizes...

Sorry for what is surely a stupid question for those of you who know better, but here goes:

I've trashed a couple of blocks/pistons/rods lately (3 engines in 2 events). One of the blocks looks like it'll clean up ok with an aggressive hone which may make it a couple thou larger than it should be. Could I pick through my remaining std pistons, knurl a set to expand the skirt some, and put some ebay +.-10 or +.020 rings on it (filed down to get a slight gap when shoved in the new bore?

Some made up numbers to help make things more clear:

Bore hones out to be +.005 larger than it should be when used with std pistons.

knurl std piston skirts to make them +.005 (or +.001") smaller than the new bore size

use +.010 oversized rings filed down to give minimum gap in the new bore size.

What could go wrong?

(why go through these gymnastics? It's Lemons and I can use the knurler and hone at the local junior college for free).

Re: pistons, rings, and bore sizes...

I did pretty much exactly that on a Fiat 850 motor that had so much wear you could see the ground past the piston mid stroke ( with rings out ) and it ran pretty good ( for a fiat ).

You will want to run more top ring gap than factory spec so you don't pull off the ring land since road racing gets the motor nice and hot.

If you find a home tool hone that can take off 0.005" you have hit the motherlode.  I'd expect more like 0.001 max with a hand drill hone.  Now if they have a nice fancy one like a real machine shop you can hone each bore to the smallest size that is straight and fit each one by hand. 

Or just buy stock size rings, file to fit and reassemble...

El Capitan de los Bastardos De Lemons
1993 Linco Mark Ate
1957 Renault Dauphine
Driver with LemonSpeed's V6 Mustang

Re: pistons, rings, and bore sizes...

Spank - ring gap for us - 2 thou per inch of bore.
"racers clearance" on skirt = 6 thou and noisy as hell
that big a clearance gets you the wrist pin circlip issue so you gotta go buttons.
knurling is good on the loose pistons - for a while - they will hold more oil.

your bigger problem is the valve springs - you are suffering coil overheat it seems. have you looked around to see if ANYTHING else fits?
... otherwise I had great luck with my ghetto 1100 using Isky outers and old a/a inners without the inners spacers. Hard to find the isky's and everyone says they're crap. You need to machine the cap a bit to get them to work.

Re: pistons, rings, and bore sizes...

Knurling not only works for pistons, but it improves the hell out of the oil control past worn valve guides. Buttons can be fabbed from Teflon round stock for a few bucks. Do it! Post pics...

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: pistons, rings, and bore sizes...

"knurled" for guides is different and a really good idea - it is actually "Rifled" as in the same technique as for gun rifling only more turns per foot/inch... I dunno how you'd do it in a backyard method.

6 (edited by jimeditorial 2010-08-25 11:31 AM)

Re: pistons, rings, and bore sizes...

There used to be handheld kits for guide knurling....sort of a stepped pilot you just screwed in then used progressive grooved reamers...they upset the metal more than cut it. Haven't seen one in years...

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: pistons, rings, and bore sizes...

There's a full albeit dated /old skool machine shop at Palomar JC. I took an automotive machining class and an engine rebuilding class and burned through a bunch of stuff to stick on my shelf and that I've pretty much used all up. Folks thought I was nuts for knurling (rifiling) removable guides, but it worked a treat and the school bought the knurler and reamer for me in the correct sizes. And knurling guides was free, replacing them cost $10-20 in parts.

I cut valves so thin you could shave with 'em. But the worked!

I did all of this with hand held tools-- the knurler was just a bit that attached to a hand held drill with a gear reduction device, and the reamer same thing. I didn't use the power tools to cut the seats-- just a hand cutter. The seats were/are all different depths, but I was in more control and able to only remove necessary material to clean 'em up. Used washers to shim the springs as needed.

Need to sign up for that class again.

Re: pistons, rings, and bore sizes...

Every one of those skills can let you build a reliable engine under budget...maybe Harbor Freight will find Chinese versions of these tools cheap...

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....