The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Newcomers → CLONE Cars?
Newbie here.. I've got 3 1976 Jaguar XJ-S sitting here..
Could I paint them alike, number them the same and when the prince of darkness attacks or some other such typically limey failing attacks pull in swap cars and resume?
Then in my wild imagination I'd have a full time mechanical crew repair them so that in a few laps when another failing attacks I'll have another car to swap into..;-)?
Brilliant!
KT
They'd probably give you a billion penalty laps (merely to discourage anyone from trying it with a car that might actually finish), but as long as each chassis went through tech and no more than one of them was on track at any given time... what could possibly go wrong?
Seriously... better run this notion past Jay before taking it too seriously.
One technicality that would be easy to overlook: You'd have to move your transponder onto whichever car is going out.
I think you'd do better to prep two of the cars, enter two teams, and bring the third car complete as a parts car. Fully preparing 3 cars to race and only racing one team would be painful... you could almost run a pro race on that kind of budget!
Jaguars. What could go wrong.
Sweet bring all three! As each one breaks down the Lemons officials pull it off the track and directly over to the crusher. The only rule is no matter how easy it is to fix the car your not allowed to work on it. By noon on Sunday the third one will be ready to crush then we line up all three for the Peoples curse. One Vote three cars...NICE......
This theme only works if you have identical quadruplets as drivers same car(s), same driver(s)...
Noon Sunday?
Really? These are Jaguars, I'd be happy with noon on Saturday. (hence the need for clones) Don't forget these would easily quailify for Vintage status.. 34 years old!
The transmission is an ancient Borg Warner design in the early the 1950's (Used in Stdebakers, Packards and other such well known reliable cars).. While the fuel rejection system was a last minute lash up when the Brico system originally designed failed to work..
Take the absolute worst of British electronics with Bosch programming and you have a recreation of WW 2 going on under the hood.
It doesn't have a computer as most people understand it.. No prom chip etc.. instead the system electronically measures stuff and then batch fires the required system.. It's sort of like a electronic carburator. Not really EFI!
OH! and just to add excitement, the rear brakes are really tiny!(MG midget small) Right next to the differental to really concentrate heat in one place! Tiny brakes in a tightly enclosed space really soften up seals and gaskets. OH! and don't forget the weight of the Queen Mary to haul down from speed!
As for smashing them, Would you really do that to her majisty the queen?
No No these cars were vintage right off the sales lot, very few of them were on the road, most were back at the dealer being repaired. We just want to see a trio of cars crushed and you just want to drive three of them, so I think it's a great trade off. We will sing all "Hail to the Queen" as Jay starts up the backhoe if it would make you feel better. 
This theme only works if you have identical quadruplets as drivers same car(s), same driver(s)...
AH Ha! you foiled my scheme!
But wait wouldn't we need twelve clone drivers?
I mean three cars, 4 drivers per car =12 right?
Forget racing them, post pics and sell them to me. Surely between them one actual good, streetworthy (for 20 minutes at a time) car can be built.
(No, seriously. I want an XJS SOOOOOOOOOO bad, dammit.)
Forget racing them, post pics and sell them to me. Surely between them one actual good, streetworthy (for 20 minutes at a time) car can be built.
(No, seriously. I want an XJS SOOOOOOOOOO bad, dammit.)
They are all over! I have 4 right now.. 3 1976's plus one 1990 convertable (pure lust) It would potentially be a great car to race since it was cheap enough to buy and the covertable looks really sexy compared to the coupe version. With only 88,000 miles and flawless except for the left bank #2 cylinder exhaust valve which choose to go on vacation. Other than a noise at idle it's baby buttom smooth.
Pop the head off, replace the valve, put it back together. Too easy to do and too much potential profit..
Seriously if you are interested and anywhere near by I suppose running 2 clones would be still cool.. Even better if you wanted to be as insane as I am and race it! Then I would get extremely reasonable about it..
By the way there is already one running in Califonia and another here in Minnesota as a track car..
My team ran the 94 XJ12 last month at Thunder Hill. If for some reason you fail to come to your senses and choose to run one or all three of these royal land yachts, be prepared to spend a lot of time wrenching in the pits and calling junkyards.
Pandejo knows a million times more about these cars than myself and my team, but we might be able to answer some questions about them. Like the best way to ease the pain from their sudden but inevitable failure (Newcastle and sake worked for me).
Don't worry too much about penalty laps. It seems that Jaguar = insta-pass at BS. It works even better if you have to push it through tech and BS because it suddenly won't start.
My team ran the 94 XJ12 last month at Thunder Hill. If for some reason you fail to come to your senses and choose to run one or all three of these royal land yachts, be prepared to spend a lot of time wrenching in the pits and calling junkyards.
Pandejo knows a million times more about these cars than myself and my team, but we might be able to answer some questions about them. Like the best way to ease the pain from their sudden but inevitable failure (Newcastle and sake worked for me).
Don't worry too much about penalty laps. It seems that Jaguar = insta-pass at BS. It works even better if you have to push it through tech and BS because it suddenly won't start.
Well I just dopuble checked the rules and since they speak nothing about sanity I'm free to admit.
This will be my 3rd Jaguar race car (and yes I still own them)..
Ones a "D" type. (I've been involved with since I was 14) ones a Jaguar XK-E V12 Roadster race car.. (Patterned after the Huffacker car) and now these three XJ-S's
For the sake of full disclosure I should also admit that in the shop right now there are 6 V12 engines on stands and stacked up.. plus several 6 cylinder engines for the "D" type (not real "D" type motors, far too spendy)
Thank god there is no sanity clause!, I could never prove sane
With Jaguars, I'd say you should have five cars: one race car and four parts cars.
With Jaguars, I'd say you should have five cars: one race car and four parts cars.
Rule Britania, Britania rules the waves!
How did Jaguar ever win Le Mans 5 times?
FraidyCaptain wrote:My team ran the 94 XJ12 last month at Thunder Hill. If for some reason you fail to come to your senses and choose to run one or all three of these royal land yachts, be prepared to spend a lot of time wrenching in the pits and calling junkyards.
Pandejo knows a million times more about these cars than myself and my team, but we might be able to answer some questions about them. Like the best way to ease the pain from their sudden but inevitable failure (Newcastle and sake worked for me).
Don't worry too much about penalty laps. It seems that Jaguar = insta-pass at BS. It works even better if you have to push it through tech and BS because it suddenly won't start.
Well I just dopuble checked the rules and since they speak nothing about sanity I'm free to admit.
This will be my 3rd Jaguar race car (and yes I still own them)..
Ones a "D" type. (I've been involved with since I was 14) ones a Jaguar XK-E V12 Roadster race car.. (Patterned after the Huffacker car) and now these three XJ-S's
For the sake of full disclosure I should also admit that in the shop right now there are 6 V12 engines on stands and stacked up.. plus several 6 cylinder engines for the "D" type (not real "D" type motors, far too spendy)
Thank god there is no sanity clause!, I could never prove sane
Well then, it sounds like I should be asking you for help!
...Help, it's like Jaguar never intended on people racing 16 year old versions of the XJ12!
Please run! You're infected already having "raced" a Jaguar.. There is no known cure and associating with the likes of me will likely put you on several watch lists.
Well I suppose Once infected you can't get much more infected.
Drop me an E-mail and I'll share decades of experiance racing Jaguars with you.. First Jaguar raced was a DP SCCA XK150 in 1969 First race attended as a crew member of a Jaguar race team, 1962
If you are interested there are simple (and free ways) to pull a lot more power from that V12. 100BHP is doable. plus there are cheap fixes for some of the problems (Over heating inboard brakes)
Noon Sunday?
While the fuel rejection system was a last minute lash up when the Brico system originally designed failed to work..
Take the absolute worst of British electronics with Bosch programming and you have a recreation of WW 2 going on under the hood.
It doesn't have a computer as most people understand it.. No prom chip etc.. instead the system electronically measures stuff and then batch fires the required system.. It's sort of like a electronic carburator. Not really EFI!
OH! and just to add excitement, the rear brakes are really tiny!(MG midget small) Right next to the differental to really concentrate heat in one place! Tiny brakes in a tightly enclosed space really soften up seals and gaskets. OH! and don't forget the weight of the Queen Mary to haul down from speed!
As for smashing them, Would you really do that to her majisty the queen?
You don't need no stinkin fuel injection. Put some Stromberg's on those things. What could possibly go wrong? That's why they make us have a fire extingusher on board.
Anybody want a 71 (or whatever the hell year it is) V12 Coupe? It's got carburators on it, four of them.
what infected? no, I would never. I would never get that attached to such an over complicated under engineered boat of a car. Even if it made the most wonderful noise while floating down the track, or showed that in the proper hands it really could be a competitive car, or even if the shear joy of finishing an entire race in it without breakdown would most likely bring a tear to my eye... yeah who am I kidding? see you at Sears Point next year.
Alan
Fraidy Cat Racing
what infected? no, I would never. I would never get that attached to such an over complicated under engineered boat of a car. Even if it made the most wonderful noise while floating down the track, or showed that in the proper hands it really could be a competitive car, or even if the shear joy of finishing an entire race in it without breakdown would most likely bring a tear to my eye... yeah who am I kidding? see you at Sears Point next year.
Alan
Fraidy Cat Racing
Alan! You've raced a 94? That is the later HE engine which was modified by Mays to get better fuel mileage. Thr problem is they did it with the stratified charge design..
The engine is really on the verge of burn down to get that better mileage. In fact If you check with German Jaguar owners you will find nearly everyone of them had major troubles after blasting down the autobahn and then running into traffic and having the overly lean engine burn pistons and melt valves..
AJ6 engineering in England is who youneed to be talking to.. They have E-prom chips for that later fuel injection that will fatten up the overly lean areas and allow you to safely run it on a race track.. You won't believe it's the same engine! That much more snappy and responsive!
There is also the option for the larger diameter throttle body which should kick up power significantly..
Jaguar is fine here in America where full throttle for an extended period legally cannot happen, saeme in England, however with the autobahn that will cause serious engine issues..
(the earlier versions like my 76 use the flat head version rather than the May modified HE engine, so all that is required is a little tweeking of fuel pressure and power comes alive.
Go on line to AJ6 and start reading please!
Actually once you really understand the car/ motor it is very magnifiicent. So how have you dealt with suspension issues? You don't need to spend money there either.. Cut one coil from the front and 1/2 coil from each of the rear coil overs.. The numb power steering can be dealt with in several ways.. Poor boys remove the pump and hoses and drain the fluid leaving just enough for lubrication. But you'd better have a really serious set of bicepts. Another way is to slow down the pump speed with a differant size pully. It will still take real muscle to turn at parking speeds but adds a lot of feel back into steering..
The best way is to buy the Kit that Rob Beere sells which makes the power steering adjustable..
OMGuar wrote:Noon Sunday?
While the fuel rejection system was a last minute lash up when the Brico system originally designed failed to work..
Take the absolute worst of British electronics with Bosch programming and you have a recreation of WW 2 going on under the hood.
It doesn't have a computer as most people understand it.. No prom chip etc.. instead the system electronically measures stuff and then batch fires the required system.. It's sort of like a electronic carburator. Not really EFI!
OH! and just to add excitement, the rear brakes are really tiny!(MG midget small) Right next to the differental to really concentrate heat in one place! Tiny brakes in a tightly enclosed space really soften up seals and gaskets. OH! and don't forget the weight of the Queen Mary to haul down from speed!
As for smashing them, Would you really do that to her majisty the queen?You don't need no stinkin fuel injection. Put some Stromberg's on those things. What could possibly go wrong? That's why they make us have a fire extingusher on board.
Anybody want a 71 (or whatever the hell year it is) V12 Coupe? It's got carburators on it, four of them.
I don't believe the ZK-E V12's came over in 1971 as coupes if they did it was rare.. 72 are much more common..
However the carbs need major rework to operate properly at racing speeds. plus even properly adjusted they cost you 65 Horsepower over the fuel rejection.. Not to mention that reworking the Strombergs is likely to cost you more than $500.00 (and that's if you're allready pretty good at carburator rebuilds)
Group 44 found it was a whole lot simpler to just use 4 HD8' SU's rather than attempt to get the strombergs to perform at racing speeds..
Since HD8's are sellig for about $250.00 each that wouldn't be allowed within the rules either.. (I've got a set of carburators I removed from my V12E type when I put on the Webbers..
Three Rochester 2GC's in a tri-power set up like a GTO ought to work...you can find the carbs on lots of GM pickups, etc. The original had 2G's at the ends but you can cut off the choke easily enough...
Three Rochester 2GC's in a tri-power set up like a GTO ought to work...you can find the carbs on lots of GM pickups, etc. The original had 2G's at the ends but you can cut off the choke easily enough...
ON what Manifold?
Have you ever looked a Jaguar/BMW/Mercedes? Ferrarri, etc. V12? the manifolds all come out sideways. Now the Carters used on 1953/54 Corvettes might work if you have 4 of them, However since the collectotsrs are paying insane money for them I think it would be cheaper to buy a set of webbers! ($7750 currant complete price)
Our '87 XJ6 that we ran at MAM is actually a pretty good car. All of our mechanical woes seem to have been self-inflicted. BTW, want to buy a cooked 4.2 with a good transmission?
jimeditorial wrote:Three Rochester 2GC's in a tri-power set up like a GTO ought to work...you can find the carbs on lots of GM pickups, etc. The original had 2G's at the ends but you can cut off the choke easily enough...
ON what Manifold?
Have you ever looked a Jaguar/BMW/Mercedes? Ferrarri, etc. V12? the manifolds all come out sideways. Now the Carters used on 1953/54 Corvettes might work if you have 4 of them, However since the collectotsrs are paying insane money for them I think it would be cheaper to buy a set of webbers! ($7750 currant complete price)
A simple welded plenum with tube runners to the flanges....or mounting flanges heli-arc'd to the stock alloy intake with the throttle body assembly removed. I'm not saying it's easy, I've done it with a twin SU Rover 3.5 intake modified to a Holley flange, and yes that's more common than Jag, but factory FI can't be easy or cheap either. I think Speedycop did this on his BMW powered car.....was it the T-bird?
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