Topic: Please explain to me how to cheat.

I figure if I know How to cheat then that's what I won't do.  Winning means absolutely nothing.. I've done more than my share of that and my ego doesn't need a bag of nickels.

   What I'd like to do is run well untill it breaks, Hey it's a 34 year old British car not known for reliability. Fix it and run untill it breaks again etc..
What I really don't want to have happen is lose it to the anger of the mob etc..
    I can figure out how to make it fast.. (without spending any money)  Maybe even fix some known weaknesses..
   IF I make a nice clean car that runs well, will I earn the wrath of the club?

If I don't ever win an event can I keep the car? Say  a nice Gentlemans 4th?
The whole idea of  a budget limited endurance race is really exciting. It means a guy willing to work and put the effort into his car can take an ancient wreck and do well with it without spending money..

Re: Please explain to me how to cheat.

not sure what you mean by "can i keep the car?"  it's yours.  there is a claiming rule but it's only been used once, and at the team's request, i believe.

unless you are more than one of the following:
-hella cheater
-rude in the pits
-rude on track

you are most likely safe* from the curse.  if you're running a V12 Jag, i would say you are almost definitely safe* unless you guys are incredibly misbehaved on track.

BTW, no one buys your "if i know how to cheat that's what i won't do" business.  riiiiiight.  wink

anyway:  here's a handy guide:

http://jalopnik.com/400309/what-would-s … ge-murilee

*No warranty express or implied.  Your mileage may vary.  All predictions and advice guaranteed correct, or they are free.

mike - Schumacher Taxi Service
12+-time loser
"Winner" - We Got Screwed, NJMP '11

Re: Please explain to me how to cheat.

In general your car will not cause you to "loose it to the anger of the mob" by which I assume you mean the curse.

The curse is reserved for people/teams who dont get it, those who drive like idiots and anger other teams. 

The cheaters are handled by BS inspection.

When in doubt bring good food/beer.  Its hard to stay mad at someone offering good beer.

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

Re: Please explain to me how to cheat.

and don't take the lazy way out by leaving a cooler of "free" Natty Light in your paddock space when you leave for the night.

mike - Schumacher Taxi Service
12+-time loser
"Winner" - We Got Screwed, NJMP '11

Re: Please explain to me how to cheat.

Jay is the only one who can claim a car, and I know that he doesn't want some hoopty-ass Jag lowering his property values.

Re: Please explain to me how to cheat.

Buzz Killington wrote:

and don't take the lazy way out by leaving a cooler of "free" Natty Light in your paddock space when you leave for the night.

I said good beer for a reason....Natty Light?!?  really?  ewwww

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

Re: Please explain to me how to cheat.

JThw8 wrote:
Buzz Killington wrote:

and don't take the lazy way out by leaving a cooler of "free" Natty Light in your paddock space when you leave for the night.

I said good beer for a reason....Natty Light?!?  really?  ewwww

True story.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Please explain to me how to cheat.

Buzz Killington wrote:

not sure what you mean by "can i keep the car?"  it's yours.  there is a claiming rule but it's only been used once, and at the team's request, i believe.

unless you are more than one of the following:
-hella cheater
-rude in the pits
-rude on track

you are most likely safe* from the curse.  if you're running a V12 Jag, i would say you are almost definitely safe* unless you guys are incredibly misbehaved on track.

BTW, no one buys your "if i know how to cheat that's what i won't do" business.  riiiiiight.  wink

anyway:  here's a handy guide:

http://jalopnik.com/400309/what-would-s … ge-murilee

*No warranty express or implied.  Your mileage may vary.  All predictions and advice guaranteed correct, or they are free.

Back in the 1950's there was a guy who took an old hotrodded car called old Yellar.  It gave the fancy Ferrarri's, Maserati's, Jaguar's, etc fits often beating them. In  car few even thought  should be allowed..  (probably the original low dollar racer)
  His "secret" was to simply do what was effective not the lastest thing..
   When I started racing back in the 1960's I took a junk Jaguar and raced with the high dollar factory teams very effectively..
In racing there is too much of the stuff that's expensive, looks cool but only saves a 10th of a second a season.  Usually there is a lot of lost potential.
  As for behavior,  Like most people I'm a tad bit shy untill I'm comfortable.  However I sure like to have fun both on and off the track..  So I tend to stick out my hand and introduce myself,, help anybody who needs it.  Lend, give parts if they help and in general try to be a nice guy..     Conduct on the track is careful untill I know you or am comfortable with dicing with you.  Once I get to that point then we'll go at it to whatever level you are willing to go to..
I'm proud of the fact that in over 40 years of racing the only fender scrape I've had (other than rolling it out of the trailer or in the garage) occured when a throttle stuck wide open on the cool off lap.. While they towed my car in it was because I was afraid it might happen again, not because of the minor damage done..

Re: Please explain to me how to cheat.

Thank you all for your answers..
Reading the rules I got the impression that anything less than a clown car was likely to be taken and crushed.  I know how much work even the barest effort requires to attempt to put a car on the track safely.  My fear was that All those hours of effort would go away after the first race.
I can appreciate that you  don't want to race with a bunch of jerks. Yes I know some can be and you need a way to have them not ruin your fun..

I wonder though if you aren't scaring off some nice guys as well?    Well as full as your fields seem to be I guess you have even that under control..
Thanks again for welcoming me.

Re: Please explain to me how to cheat.

OMGuar wrote:

Back in the 1950's there was a guy who took an old hotrodded car called old Yellar.  It gave the fancy Ferrarri's, Maserati's, Jaguar's, etc fits often beating them. In  car few even thought  should be allowed..  (probably the original low dollar racer)
  His "secret" was to simply do what was effective not the lastest thing..
   When I started racing back in the 1960's I took a junk Jaguar and raced with the high dollar factory teams very effectively..
In racing there is too much of the stuff that's expensive, looks cool but only saves a 10th of a second a season.  Usually there is a lot of lost potential.
  As for behavior,  Like most people I'm a tad bit shy untill I'm comfortable.  However I sure like to have fun both on and off the track..  So I tend to stick out my hand and introduce myself,, help anybody who needs it.  Lend, give parts if they help and in general try to be a nice guy..     Conduct on the track is careful untill I know you or am comfortable with dicing with you.  Once I get to that point then we'll go at it to whatever level you are willing to go to..
I'm proud of the fact that in over 40 years of racing the only fender scrape I've had (other than rolling it out of the trailer or in the garage) occured when a throttle stuck wide open on the cool off lap.. While they towed my car in it was because I was afraid it might happen again, not because of the minor damage done..

Max Balchowsky, I think. A close friend of mine raced against him a few times back in the day. As I recall, he had WW2 surplus Japanese army helmets welded  into front brake scoops. Probably the original LeMon...

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: Please explain to me how to cheat.

This:
http://jalopnik.com/400309/what-would-s … ge-murilee

Lemons South 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Spring 2009 - Fail, Lemons Detroit(ish) 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Fall 2009 - Fail, Lamest Day 2009 - Fail, Miami 2010 (Chump) - 2nd!, Sebring 2010 (Chump) - Fail, Cuba 2010 - Crew Chief, Roebling 2011 (Chump) - 8th!, Sebring 2011(Chump) - 19th!

Re: Please explain to me how to cheat.

If you're gonna cheat, make it something interesting, crazy, and unreliable or uncompetitive. Like a Cummins diesel stuffed into an S-10, or a turbine-powered MG. Homebrew turbo setups on motorcycle engines chain-driving a gear on the rear axle are always good.

Re: Please explain to me how to cheat.

jimeditorial wrote:
OMGuar wrote:

Back in the 1950's there was a guy who took an old hotrodded car called old Yellar.  It gave the fancy Ferrarri's, Maserati's, Jaguar's, etc fits often beating them. In  car few even thought  should be allowed..  (probably the original low dollar racer)
  His "secret" was to simply do what was effective not the lastest thing..
   When I started racing back in the 1960's I took a junk Jaguar and raced with the high dollar factory teams very effectively..
In racing there is too much of the stuff that's expensive, looks cool but only saves a 10th of a second a season.  Usually there is a lot of lost potential.
  As for behavior,  Like most people I'm a tad bit shy untill I'm comfortable.  However I sure like to have fun both on and off the track..  So I tend to stick out my hand and introduce myself,, help anybody who needs it.  Lend, give parts if they help and in general try to be a nice guy..     Conduct on the track is careful untill I know you or am comfortable with dicing with you.  Once I get to that point then we'll go at it to whatever level you are willing to go to..
I'm proud of the fact that in over 40 years of racing the only fender scrape I've had (other than rolling it out of the trailer or in the garage) occured when a throttle stuck wide open on the cool off lap.. While they towed my car in it was because I was afraid it might happen again, not because of the minor damage done..

Max Balchowsky, I think. A close friend of mine raced against him a few times back in the day. As I recall, he had WW2 surplus Japanese army helmets welded  into front brake scoops. Probably the original LeMon...

Thank you, You're right it was Max Balchowsky.
  MY local guy was named Jack Baker.. he raced my "D" type Jag and he was exactly the same. That or the Echidna team here in Minnesota who took a fiberglas Devin body and slapped it on a narrowed and shortened 56 Chevy Chassis and made 3 of them..
Something to do to keep busy during our long cold winters..
TOO bad SCCA got away from that. I guess the appeal of a restrictive club was greater than the fun creative people can bring to a club..

14 (edited by OMGuar 2010-09-04 07:53 AM)

Re: Please explain to me how to cheat.

EriktheAwful wrote:

If you're gonna cheat, make it something interesting, crazy, and unreliable or uncompetitive. Like a Cummins diesel stuffed into an S-10, or a turbine-powered MG. Homebrew turbo setups on motorcycle engines chain-driving a gear on the rear axle are always good.

Crazy and Unreliable I have down cold..
British and 12 pistons to vacate a block!
   I have been looking at the manifolds and noticing just how simple it would be to put 4 little turbos in place..  One for each exhaust manifold..
For fuel enrichment I could simply use the cold start injectors as a supliment kicked on when say 2 PSI of boost was reached?  V12's are getting between 2-3 MPG so a turbo'd one could decrease that  to 1-2 MPG?
Let's see a turbo'd V12,
    What can possibly go wrong? 
I'm just glad there is no sanity claus in the club..

Re: Please explain to me how to cheat.

OMGuar wrote:

I'm just glad there is no sanity claus in the club..

there is: you have to be insane to race here.
we dont take too kindly to sane "racers"

Yee-Haw 2010 "Most Heroic Fix" & "I Got Screwed" -2 trophies for 1 lap, but I took checkered on my lap.
Gator-O-Rama 2012 "Organizers Choice" -2 laps 1 trophy, but i still finished ahead of an E30
Yee-Haw 2013 No trophy -26 laps, I think I see a pattern here
Gator-O-Rama 2014 "Waiting for the Last Minute Call from the Governor Award" -who's counting? John

Re: Please explain to me how to cheat.

OMGuar wrote:

What can possibly go wrong?

And with that, our work here is done.  You are no longer a Lemons newb.  You get it.

(actually, I think you got it before you even showed up here)

Lemons South 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Spring 2009 - Fail, Lemons Detroit(ish) 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Fall 2009 - Fail, Lamest Day 2009 - Fail, Miami 2010 (Chump) - 2nd!, Sebring 2010 (Chump) - Fail, Cuba 2010 - Crew Chief, Roebling 2011 (Chump) - 8th!, Sebring 2011(Chump) - 19th!

Re: Please explain to me how to cheat.

Now if you could just please provide me with documentation that I'm truely insane perhaps I could convince the IRS that this is a profitable enterprise and deduct all my expenses on my tax forms.  See I'm either insanely clever or cleverly insane..
UM, considering what I want to do ..........

Re: Please explain to me how to cheat.

OMGuar wrote:

Now if you could just please provide me with documentation that I'm truely insane perhaps I could convince the IRS that this is a profitable enterprise and deduct all my expenses on my tax forms.  See I'm either insanely clever or cleverly insane..
UM, considering what I want to do ..........

After your first race, photocopy your comp membership card and race patch and include it with your tax return. That should do it.

Driver, Pit Monkey, Rod Buster and Engine Fire Starter
Team FinalGear

Re: Please explain to me how to cheat.

British?!?!? You can't cheat. I tried. Not possible.

"Real ZomBees prefer Bacon"
IOE(x2) MGB/SAAB 96, Judge's Choice, Class C Win, & 2011 Hooniverse Car of the Year!
MRolla, Stick Figure/Animal House, Free Range MR2, SAAB Sonett, "The Death Flip"
2008 Exoskeleton Jag Fiasco, Concours d Lemons - Rue Britannia, worse British car.

Re: Please explain to me how to cheat.

Only 1 car ever has been claimed by Jay....& not many cars get crushed anymore....

Of course the other racers decide who gets crushed...so if your team behaves on track and follow the "don't be a d!ck" rule...you should be fine....

Bring a cool car with a good theme...British with a British engine is a plus....since its just far to easy to drop an 302 or 350 in about anything and be fast.....  Want a "faster" British car..ghettocharge it....chances are the judges will be so busy laughing and betting each other the number of seconds it will run on track you'll slide through BS pretty easy...

Richard Doty
1984 Porsche 928 "Estate"
Porsche- "there is A substitute" Racing
Dirt Poorsche Racing #2

21 (edited by OMGuar 2010-09-07 01:00 PM)

Re: Please explain to me how to cheat.

icemang17 wrote:

Only 1 car ever has been claimed by Jay....& not many cars get crushed anymore....

Of course the other racers decide who gets crushed...so if your team behaves on track and follow the "don't be a d!ck" rule...you should be fine....

Bring a cool car with a good theme...British with a British engine is a plus....since its just far to easy to drop an 302 or 350 in about anything and be fast.....  Want a "faster" British car..ghettocharge it....chances are the judges will be so busy laughing and betting each other the number of seconds it will run on track you'll slide through BS pretty easy...

OK so if I do ghetto charge  a V12 Jaguar,  No seriously,,
stop laughing!
  I'm serious,
please stop laughing?
please?
  OK I show up with my 41 year old Jaguar V12 ghetto charged and by some miracle it makes several laps..
now stop laughing,,
  Please? 
I wouldn't have to prove what money was spent?   I have found a pair of Turbo's and intercoolers for $75.00 each and can even get a receipt for them That $150.00 added to the nothing I've spent so far  would let me play with you guys? Well naturally for as long as it ran..
   Is there any penalty for blowing up and scattering oil and water all over the track? 
I do have several spare engines sitting here looking for a home so let's say I swap engines and attempt to go out again? Is there somebody with a big butterly net that will stop me? 
Sure assuming I can get a pass from the mental ward,
  But you'd actually let me go on the race track? 
  There is no limit on tire width? 
The only limit I need to worry about is the $500. value number? 
  They don't add a premium for the most insane proposition do they? 
  Um,    Are alternate fuels allowed? 
  I can buy denatured alcohol cheaper than gasolene,  so could I use that instead? 
Are additives allowed?

22 (edited by OlCreFoo 2010-09-07 01:45 PM)

Re: Please explain to me how to cheat.

You have to prove the money you spent before you go out on the track.  If you care more about ridiculousness than winning, do it and the worst you'll get for ghetto charging (assuming it isn't dangerous)?  Penalty laps.  And, you might have it sitting for free but you have to attach some modicum of reasonable price to the car.  It's British, so you're not talking about much.   

It gets better.  If you blow one engine up, and swap in a new engine you'll actually stand a chance for getting an AWARD.  And they'll probably watch intently for the second engine to go. 

You're lucky and don't have to pay a premium for insane propositions, that usually makes it easier for you.

Plain Jane '86 BMW 535i - Current
RIP People's Elbowed Protege - 2010

Re: Please explain to me how to cheat.

I'm pretty sure if you show up with a ghettocharged Jaguar of any sort the only attention you'll get in BS is a betting pool on how long it lasts.

Driver, Pit Monkey, Rod Buster and Engine Fire Starter
Team FinalGear

Re: Please explain to me how to cheat.

I'll sell you a Jaguar 4.2 straight-six with a blown head gasket dirt cheap. You could spend as much as you want ghettocharging it and probably not get any laps. It only got up to 140*C (BTW, what's that in Fahrenheit?)

Re: Please explain to me how to cheat.

OMGuar wrote:
jimeditorial wrote:
OMGuar wrote:

Back in the 1950's there was a guy who took an old hotrodded car called old Yellar.  It gave the fancy Ferrarri's, Maserati's, Jaguar's, etc fits often beating them. In  car few even thought  should be allowed..  (probably the original low dollar racer)
  His "secret" was to simply do what was effective not the lastest thing..
   When I started racing back in the 1960's I took a junk Jaguar and raced with the high dollar factory teams very effectively..
In racing there is too much of the stuff that's expensive, looks cool but only saves a 10th of a second a season.  Usually there is a lot of lost potential.
  As for behavior,  Like most people I'm a tad bit shy untill I'm comfortable.  However I sure like to have fun both on and off the track..  So I tend to stick out my hand and introduce myself,, help anybody who needs it.  Lend, give parts if they help and in general try to be a nice guy..     Conduct on the track is careful untill I know you or am comfortable with dicing with you.  Once I get to that point then we'll go at it to whatever level you are willing to go to..
I'm proud of the fact that in over 40 years of racing the only fender scrape I've had (other than rolling it out of the trailer or in the garage) occured when a throttle stuck wide open on the cool off lap.. While they towed my car in it was because I was afraid it might happen again, not because of the minor damage done..

Max Balchowsky, I think. A close friend of mine raced against him a few times back in the day. As I recall, he had WW2 surplus Japanese army helmets welded  into front brake scoops. Probably the original LeMon...

Thank you, You're right it was Max Balchowsky.
  MY local guy was named Jack Baker.. he raced my "D" type Jag and he was exactly the same. That or the Echidna team here in Minnesota who took a fiberglas Devin body and slapped it on a narrowed and shortened 56 Chevy Chassis and made 3 of them..
Something to do to keep busy during our long cold winters..
TOO bad SCCA got away from that. I guess the appeal of a restrictive club was greater than the fun creative people can bring to a club..

Mine was Jack Barton. His specials evolved into a tube frame A-H 3000 with a modified 327 running through a Jim Hall transmission (a la 2J) to the rear wheels. Bought the trans off the back of Hall's truck at Mosport I think. All I have left is the Nardi wheel, the pith helmet and WW2 pilot's goggles. Tires were slicks retreads on Michelin casings at first, later Goodyear blue streak specials. Drove it to the track. Great days!

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....