Topic: Cold Source Racing 73 Super Beetle for CMP

Not sure which section is best to post these...This is Herpes (or Herbies), the Bug of Love. '73 Super Beetle we bought for $400 with a sweet engine- except it was completely disassembled and had spent the last 4 years in boxes. Nevermind that none of us had ever owned a beetle let alone built an engine for one before, we figured how hard could it be? Now if it doesn't implode in the first few laps (though realistically, it will) the engine should push us around pretty quickly (90.5x74, bore and stroke- heck should make 90 hp!). Other than an extra oil-cooler everything else is bone stock. Ok sure we did give it the bitchen "Harrod Helper" spoiler. See y'all at CMP!

http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad188/jsamanta/Lemons%20September2010/iPhonePhotos005.jpg

http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad188/jsamanta/Lemons%20September2010/iPhonePhotos009.jpg

http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad188/jsamanta/Lemons%20September2010/iPhonePhotos042.jpg

http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad188/jsamanta/Lemons%20September2010/iPhonePhotosa009.jpg

RetroRacing-1973 Super! Beetle
Nine Finger Drifters- 1982 te72 Toyota Corolla Wagon (BEAMS PWRD!)
My one man show: G. D. Yo-Man: No! YOU Ams Da A&&hole!
2010 CMP Fall-Judges' Choice, 2014 Barber-DFL and I Got Screwed!, 3X- You Talk Shit Better Than You Race (YTSBTYR) Award, 2017 NCM- IOE (thanks, Speedy!), 2018 Inde-Heroic Fix, 2019 Inde-Winner C Class

Re: Cold Source Racing 73 Super Beetle for CMP

I wouldn't worry about blowing up so much as getting blown off the track, that thing couldn't weigh more than 1,500lbs if even that much.

Team Final Gear Crew Chief
#138 1997 Pontiac GTP - Supercharged 3800
#42   1999 Ford P71 Crown Vic

Re: Cold Source Racing 73 Super Beetle for CMP

True! Weve been working on aero mods to help that out. Plus we've got all our drivers on a special (Beer, fries and donuts- mostly) high calorie diet. That should give some good balast.

RetroRacing-1973 Super! Beetle
Nine Finger Drifters- 1982 te72 Toyota Corolla Wagon (BEAMS PWRD!)
My one man show: G. D. Yo-Man: No! YOU Ams Da A&&hole!
2010 CMP Fall-Judges' Choice, 2014 Barber-DFL and I Got Screwed!, 3X- You Talk Shit Better Than You Race (YTSBTYR) Award, 2017 NCM- IOE (thanks, Speedy!), 2018 Inde-Heroic Fix, 2019 Inde-Winner C Class

Re: Cold Source Racing 73 Super Beetle for CMP

Hmm, idea, aero mods designed to push light-weight cars off the track, either while passing or being passed. Team Massive Lateral Turbulence.

Re: Cold Source Racing 73 Super Beetle for CMP

I'd suggest putting on the widest wheels and tires you can find then strapping down some cinder blocks at each corner.

Team Final Gear Crew Chief
#138 1997 Pontiac GTP - Supercharged 3800
#42   1999 Ford P71 Crown Vic

Re: Cold Source Racing 73 Super Beetle for CMP

PunisherBass wrote:

I'd suggest putting on the widest wheels and tires you can find then strapping down some cinder blocks at each corner.

i'd sugest putting that thing down in the weeds! there is way to much room for air under your super. Get that thing dropped stat!

Team Lost in the Dark
Winner " I got screwed" and "Jay's dream car"
2012 Gulf region champs

Re: Cold Source Racing 73 Super Beetle for CMP

It just seems too fundamentally "wrong" to add weight to a race car. I'm not arguing that the strategy isn't sound- it just feels like it goes against the whole "damn the torpedoes" mentality this sort of racing should have. We've been scheming to come up with a front spoiler/air dam to increase downforce and/or discourage lift. The problem, of course, is just how much down force can you generate in a beetle doing 50 mph?!

RetroRacing-1973 Super! Beetle
Nine Finger Drifters- 1982 te72 Toyota Corolla Wagon (BEAMS PWRD!)
My one man show: G. D. Yo-Man: No! YOU Ams Da A&&hole!
2010 CMP Fall-Judges' Choice, 2014 Barber-DFL and I Got Screwed!, 3X- You Talk Shit Better Than You Race (YTSBTYR) Award, 2017 NCM- IOE (thanks, Speedy!), 2018 Inde-Heroic Fix, 2019 Inde-Winner C Class

8 (edited by VKZ24 2010-09-08 10:59 AM)

Re: Cold Source Racing 73 Super Beetle for CMP

yodogg wrote:

It just seems too fundamentally "wrong" to add weight to a race car.

It is!  If we could drop HALF our car's weight (which is what it would take to get to 1500 lbs) it would be like adding 50 extra HP.

BTW, you got any other pics?

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Cold Source Racing 73 Super Beetle for CMP

It's better to work on the aero than to change the suspension. Especially with struts in the front - unless you know what you're doing, it's pretty easy to mess up.

I'd be hesitant to lower it - our Karmann Ghia looks like a 4x4, but it handles great. Light weight + good tires = fun on a track.

Don't add weight either - that's just wrong.

10 (edited by yodogg 2010-09-08 12:49 PM)

Re: Cold Source Racing 73 Super Beetle for CMP

Right now the main mod we're planning on is just to the nose; to reduce its propensity to lift skyward. As for cross winds, there should be enough buicks, crown vics and old benzes at CMP to provide pretty continuous shielding for a little bug.

Here are a few more pics. Will try to post more after we get a chance to run some test laps.

http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad188/jsamanta/Lemons%20September2010/iPhonePhotos009a.jpg
engine-some assembly required?

http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad188/jsamanta/Lemons%20September2010/IMG00152.jpg
Assembled!

http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad188/jsamanta/Lemons%20September2010/iPhonePhotos025.jpg

http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad188/jsamanta/Lemons%20September2010/IMG00172.jpg
Would you let this man drive your kids to school?

http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad188/jsamanta/Lemons%20September2010/IMG00196.jpg
Our chief engineer with his home fabbed dash-panel

http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad188/jsamanta/Lemons%20September2010/iPhonePhotos027.jpg

http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad188/jsamanta/Lemons%20September2010/Picture001.jpg

RetroRacing-1973 Super! Beetle
Nine Finger Drifters- 1982 te72 Toyota Corolla Wagon (BEAMS PWRD!)
My one man show: G. D. Yo-Man: No! YOU Ams Da A&&hole!
2010 CMP Fall-Judges' Choice, 2014 Barber-DFL and I Got Screwed!, 3X- You Talk Shit Better Than You Race (YTSBTYR) Award, 2017 NCM- IOE (thanks, Speedy!), 2018 Inde-Heroic Fix, 2019 Inde-Winner C Class

Re: Cold Source Racing 73 Super Beetle for CMP

well assuming it finds a way to get above 55 mph on the track you may have a quick learning curve with the "super beetle shimmy" if you have left everything stock....be forewarned.

I have a pair of 15x10s that would help you get some nice fat rubber under there smile

Pop over to http://www.superbeetlesonly.com/ and see if you can find some quick and dirty (and cheap) ways to improve the handling a little on her.

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

Re: Cold Source Racing 73 Super Beetle for CMP

JThw8 wrote:

well assuming it finds a way to get above 55 mph on the track you may have a quick learning curve with the "super beetle shimmy" if you have left everything stock....be forewarned.

I have a pair of 15x10s that would help you get some nice fat rubber under there

I hear ya. We've spent alot of time on Shoptalkforums and SBO trying to figure out the best low-tech/low-cost handling enhancements for Ole Herbies. We did relocate the battery to the front right (next to the right strut tower) and have switched to taller tires in the rear to give it a little rake. So far so good, but we'll have a much better idea of how well it handles when we take it out to the local track for testing the weekend before CMP.

RetroRacing-1973 Super! Beetle
Nine Finger Drifters- 1982 te72 Toyota Corolla Wagon (BEAMS PWRD!)
My one man show: G. D. Yo-Man: No! YOU Ams Da A&&hole!
2010 CMP Fall-Judges' Choice, 2014 Barber-DFL and I Got Screwed!, 3X- You Talk Shit Better Than You Race (YTSBTYR) Award, 2017 NCM- IOE (thanks, Speedy!), 2018 Inde-Heroic Fix, 2019 Inde-Winner C Class

13 (edited by Spank 2010-09-08 06:21 PM)

Re: Cold Source Racing 73 Super Beetle for CMP

We're under 1500 lbs and haven't had any "blown off the track" issues. But the mini handles a bit different than a VW, I'd imagine.

But the most HP we've ever had was 58 and max rpm has been about 5500 in 3rd, about 4500 in 4th for 75ish mph

14 (edited by PunisherBass 2010-09-08 06:26 PM)

Re: Cold Source Racing 73 Super Beetle for CMP

Be sure to bring at least one full set of spare brakes with you, CMP is well known for chewing through them like pizzas at a weight watchers convention. If it's at all possible, stuff the biggest brakes you can under there.

Team Final Gear Crew Chief
#138 1997 Pontiac GTP - Supercharged 3800
#42   1999 Ford P71 Crown Vic

Re: Cold Source Racing 73 Super Beetle for CMP

PunisherBass wrote:

Be sure to bring at least one full set of spare brakes with you, CMP is well known for chewing through them like pizzas at a weight watchers convention. If it's at all possible, stuff the biggest brakes you can under there.

^ This   If you can source a set of 944 brake bits the conversion is pretty simple and having used the same bits on the Wartburg (which had a bit more weight and a metric asston more power than a bug) I can vouch for their effectiveness.

The 944 and superbeetle front suspensions are near identical which makes your swap fairly easy.  The rear brakes are a bolt on other than the parking brake which is pretty easy to adapt if you want it.

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

Re: Cold Source Racing 73 Super Beetle for CMP

my dad and i race a formula vee when we're not running saabs, and we use Carbotech brake pads. but only 2. the top shoes on each front, the bottoms and the backs we keep stock because those just don't see any real stopping loads. but we're only 1025 with dad in the car. 1045 with me (i need a diet!) not sure what the extra 450lbs would do to the ability to woah the car down... since brakes are free, you may be able to get a disk conversion in the front (if you don't already have) on the relatively cheap from dunebuggy places.
as for the revs, if you can, perhaps look for the shorter final drive geared transaxles. i'm guessing since it's a superbeetle, it's running the tallest final drive ratio, 3.8something. you want a trans with the 4.125 or shorter to get your car in the meat of the [snicker] power

Re: Cold Source Racing 73 Super Beetle for CMP

The final ratio on our tranny is, thankfully, 4.125. It still has drums all the way round and we haven't committed to converting the front, if anything we may just bring extra drums. So if you see us in your rear view mirror on Sunday you may want to avoid any sudden stops! smile

RetroRacing-1973 Super! Beetle
Nine Finger Drifters- 1982 te72 Toyota Corolla Wagon (BEAMS PWRD!)
My one man show: G. D. Yo-Man: No! YOU Ams Da A&&hole!
2010 CMP Fall-Judges' Choice, 2014 Barber-DFL and I Got Screwed!, 3X- You Talk Shit Better Than You Race (YTSBTYR) Award, 2017 NCM- IOE (thanks, Speedy!), 2018 Inde-Heroic Fix, 2019 Inde-Winner C Class

Re: Cold Source Racing 73 Super Beetle for CMP

yodogg wrote:

if anything we may just bring extra drums.

Allow me to show you these fine examples of what CMP does to brakes.

http://pic.phyrefile.com/p/pu/punisherbass/2010/08/30/brake_carnage.jpg

http://pic.phyrefile.com/m/mc/mclightning95/2010/08/30/1.jpg


If there's a brake upgrade you can do and it won't set your wallet on fire, then do it. For our GTP we wound up spending more on upgrading the front brakes than we paid for the car itself. We went from the 11 inch rotors with single piston calipers OEM setup to 12 inch rotors and dual piston calipers from a Camaro. It wasn't cheap but it made a huge difference on the track.

Team Final Gear Crew Chief
#138 1997 Pontiac GTP - Supercharged 3800
#42   1999 Ford P71 Crown Vic

Re: Cold Source Racing 73 Super Beetle for CMP

^^^2X

The big cars melted calipers, but even our ~2000lb '88 Civic went through pads every 3 hours before we upgraded to integra brakes and hawk HP+ pads.

Our Lady of Perpetual Downforce
http://www.perpetualdownforce.com/

Re: Cold Source Racing 73 Super Beetle for CMP

Wow, we're not racing hard enough. Brakes are lasting us 2+ races for a set of front stock type pads. Haven't even needed to change the rear shoes yet.

21 (edited by VKZ24 2010-09-09 04:58 AM)

Re: Cold Source Racing 73 Super Beetle for CMP

st_rage wrote:

^^^2X

The big cars melted calipers, but even our ~2000lb '88 Civic went through pads every 3 hours before we upgraded to integra brakes and hawk HP+ pads.

We run the stock brakes on our Prelude and they hold up just fine.   We run Hawk HP+ pads as well.  Why people run Autozone-type pads is beyond me.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Cold Source Racing 73 Super Beetle for CMP

The base level '88 civic has 9.5" front rotors.  The stock prelude rotors are about the same size as the 11.1" integra rotors we upgraded to.  We ran autozone pads our first race in the civic because they held up fine on the Merkur we ran the previous race.  In retrospect it was probably because the Merkur was running on 2-3 of the available 4 cylinders for 90% of the race and never able to build up much momentum.

I think most non-sporty cars are severely underbraked for Lemons.

Our Lady of Perpetual Downforce
http://www.perpetualdownforce.com/

Re: Cold Source Racing 73 Super Beetle for CMP

st_rage wrote:

The base level '88 civic has 9.5" front rotors.  The stock prelude rotors are about the same size as the 11.1" integra rotors we upgraded to.  We ran autozone pads our first race in the civic because they held up fine on the Merkur we ran the previous race.  In retrospect it was probably because the Merkur was running on 2-3 of the available 4 cylinders for 90% of the race and never able to build up much momentum.

I think most non-sporty cars are severely underbraked for Lemons.

Actually the Si Prelude rotors are 10.29" diameter vs. 9.52" for the base IIRC , so a litter smaller than the upgrade you have.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Cold Source Racing 73 Super Beetle for CMP

I guess they didn't get the bigger rotors until they got more power with the 4th gens.  I owned an '84 and an '86 Si back in college, but I wouldn't have been able to tell you anything about their braking performance back then as most of my time/money was focused on just keeping them running.  Computer controlled carbs and vacuum tubes FTL.

Our Lady of Perpetual Downforce
http://www.perpetualdownforce.com/

Re: Cold Source Racing 73 Super Beetle for CMP

st_rage wrote:

I guess they didn't get the bigger rotors until they got more power with the 4th gens.  I owned an '84 and an '86 Si back in college, but I wouldn't have been able to tell you anything about their braking performance back then as most of my time/money was focused on just keeping them running.  Computer controlled carbs and vacuum tubes FTL.

I think the '89 was the first year to get EFI and we are glad it did!

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!