• erdero
  • Rookie Driver
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  • From: Worcester, MA
  • Registered: 2010-06-22
  • Posts: 14

Topic: Cage/helmet interference

We're doing the race in Chicago in October, and we're getting our cage built right now.  Our tallest driver is about 6'6", and when he's sitting in the car with a helmet on, the side of the helmet contacts the side of the halo bar (all the other topics with helemet/cage interference problems have been the crossbar).  We can lower him a few more inches by mounting the seat lower and minimizing the butt padding, but he may still be either touching or very close to it, especially once it's wrapped in foam.  We'll probably be able to get him another 3-4" lower, but we're not sure if that would be enough for "adequate" clearance.

Has anyone else had this problem, or know of a way to get around it?  Would it be legal to run the cage through a hole in the roof with the front half of the halo bar outside, or is he totally out of luck?  Thanks.

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2 Reply by Uncle Humjaba (edited by Uncle Humjaba 2010-09-23 03:48 PM)

  • From: Norcal or South Carolina
  • Registered: 2010-04-23
  • Posts: 87

Re: Cage/helmet interference

Not sure about Lemons, but I know in SCCA you have to have 2" between the top of the cage and the top of the driver's helmet. I wouldn't be surprised if tech here had a similar rule.

We've got two guys who are 6'3" on our Lemons team and we had to custom fab a mount for our kirkey seat. We were originally going to go with the factory sliders but that put my head in the sunroof, so they had to go.

  • From: ny
  • Registered: 2009-05-15
  • Posts: 525

Re: Cage/helmet interference

belts stretch when you go upside down.  i wouldn't want my melon near the cage if i could help it

  • Spank
  • Utter Madman
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  • From: Escondido, CA
  • Registered: 2009-06-10
  • Posts: 5,864

Re: Cage/helmet interference

Generally, tech does not check each driver in the car for helmet clearance and so forth. It's up to you to make sure it fits each driver.

That said, I've seen a few cars where the cage area around the driver's head is higher than elsewhere, and I've even seen 2 cars with a bowl in the roof where the driver sits to get the clearance.

It seems the most common "serious accident" in Lemons is a rollover-- and after seeing a guy in VARA roll at Buttonwillow and his head hit before his cage, I think the FIA rule of having a helmeted head 2" below the rollcage is a very very VERY good idea.

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  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 526

Re: Cage/helmet interference

We had a 6'6 driver race with us at Sears, and I race with him at Houston.
Both races in a MR2 we used this seat bracket. http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/produc … RecID=5885 It allows you to go almost if not directly to the floor and still be able to adjust for shorter drivers. One of our drivers is 5' and ended up using a lawn chair pad for a cushion to get to the right height. Costs around $75.00 bucks and can be argued as safety equipment due to the cage restriction you have in your car.  We use the Kirkey seat with ours.

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  • From: Safety Harbor, FL (Tampa)
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 668

Re: Cage/helmet interference

Bender/StickFigureRacing wrote:

can be argued as safety equipment

No argument.  Seat mounting is absolutely and undeniably safety equipment.

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  • From: Dallas Tejas
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 527

Re: Cage/helmet interference

Abarth in the 1960's used to 'bubble' the roof on their cars to allow normal sized drivers to drive their tiny cars.  This was long before roll bars were required so even a LeMans car like the 1964 Abarth Simca I drove were made of tin foil and fiberglass.  Kind of scary since no part of the car was solid and the aluminum fuel tank was in front.

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  • erdero
  • Rookie Driver
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  • From: Worcester, MA
  • Registered: 2010-06-22
  • Posts: 14

Re: Cage/helmet interference

The problem isn't helmet clearance to the roof, it's to the driver's-side part of the halo bar.  The door starts canting in pretty well once it hits the window, so the (freakishly tall) driver's head is very close to it.

Uncle Humjaba wrote:

Not sure about Lemons, but I know in SCCA you have to have 2" between the top of the cage and the top of the driver's helmet. I wouldn't be surprised if tech here had a similar rule.

We've got two guys who are 6'3" on our Lemons team and we had to custom fab a mount for our kirkey seat. We were originally going to go with the factory sliders but that put my head in the sunroof, so they had to go.

Yeah, this is about what I assumed.  We may end up having to mount the seat directly to the floor without sliders, and unbolt it and move it each time he drives.

Pushing The Nimitz: 1995 Cadillac STS
2010 Chicago: "Most From The Least" Award Winner
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  • From: Houston (Spring) Texas
  • Registered: 2010-02-22
  • Posts: 1,624

Re: Cage/helmet interference

You best bet is probably a custom mount, as close to the center as uncomfortable.

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Gator-O-Rama 2012 "Organizers Choice" -2 laps 1 trophy, but i still finished ahead of an E30
Yee-Haw 2013 No trophy -26 laps, I think I see a pattern here
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  • From: Wheaton IL
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 408

Re: Cage/helmet interference

Or maybe just ditch the sasquatch?

You are only entitled to the space you occupy.
  • Baron
  • Baron
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  • From: DFW
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 2,408

Re: Cage/helmet interference

erdero wrote:

The problem isn't helmet clearance to the roof, it's to the driver's-side part of the halo bar.  The door starts canting in pretty well once it hits the window, so the (freakishly tall) driver's head is very close to it.

Uncle Humjaba wrote:

Not sure about Lemons, but I know in SCCA you have to have 2" between the top of the cage and the top of the driver's helmet. I wouldn't be surprised if tech here had a similar rule.

We've got two guys who are 6'3" on our Lemons team and we had to custom fab a mount for our kirkey seat. We were originally going to go with the factory sliders but that put my head in the sunroof, so they had to go.

Yeah, this is about what I assumed.  We may end up having to mount the seat directly to the floor without sliders, and unbolt it and move it each time he drives.

We had that issue with the probe we built, had to tilt the seat slightly towards the passenger side for head clearance.

It wasnt enough that you felt like you had the gangster's lean, but it moved our heads about an inch farther from the a-pillar. We also laid it back a bit more.

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  • From: Dallas suburbs. Help me.
  • Registered: 2010-04-21
  • Posts: 145

Re: Cage/helmet interference

I feel the (freakishly tall) pain.

Cutting the floorboard and moving a section of it down an inch or so and angling the seat is the current plan to address it here.  Gotta mount the steering wheel first to figure out where to put seat, then cut.

Angling the seat sounds odd (does anything sound odd in Lemons?), but would be effective too.

The mid-drive crisis guys had an awesome solution, but won't work for RWD.

  • From: Houston (Spring) Texas
  • Registered: 2010-02-22
  • Posts: 1,624

Re: Cage/helmet interference

CBraden wrote:

The mid-drive crisis guys had an awesome solution, but won't work for RWD.

This is Lemons. You are over thinking it. Put things where you want it and fab something ugly to hold it there.

Yee-Haw 2010 "Most Heroic Fix" & "I Got Screwed" -2 trophies for 1 lap, but I took checkered on my lap.
Gator-O-Rama 2012 "Organizers Choice" -2 laps 1 trophy, but i still finished ahead of an E30
Yee-Haw 2013 No trophy -26 laps, I think I see a pattern here
Gator-O-Rama 2014 "Waiting for the Last Minute Call from the Governor Award" -who's counting? John

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  • From: Shakopee, MN
  • Registered: 2009-10-05
  • Posts: 136

Re: Cage/helmet interference

Laying the seat back might be an easier option then chopping up the structure of the car. You can gain quite z bit with minimal movement or the seat angle.

  • Dave
  • Dave
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  • From: PGH PA
  • Registered: 2009-10-09
  • Posts: 993

Re: Cage/helmet interference

One of our team members melon is a good 4" above the rest of us so we had to lower/tilt the seat and raise the roof. We also have the seat track on an incline so as we adjust it forward it also raises the seat.

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  • From: Craphole, NJ
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 517

Re: Cage/helmet interference

erdero wrote:

We're doing the race in Chicago in October, and we're getting our cage built right now.  Our tallest driver is about 6'6", and when he's sitting in the car with a helmet on, the side of the helmet contacts the side of the halo bar (all the other topics with helemet/cage interference problems have been the crossbar).  We can lower him a few more inches by mounting the seat lower and minimizing the butt padding, but he may still be either touching or very close to it, especially once it's wrapped in foam.  We'll probably be able to get him another 3-4" lower, but we're not sure if that would be enough for "adequate" clearance.

Has anyone else had this problem, or know of a way to get around it?  Would it be legal to run the cage through a hole in the roof with the front half of the halo bar outside, or is he totally out of luck?  Thanks.

Our tallest driver was about 6'6" as well.  Before we bent a single tube, we hacked away some of the floor of our E30, welded in reinforcing steel, and built our own seat brackets to get the seat low enough.  While building the cage, we spent lots of time planning out the halo bar to get the tune along the top of the door as far as possible from helmets.

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