[ Closed ] GREED IS GOOD? (Page 1 of 4)

Angry, isn't he!
Chill out Fransis!!
You knew how this goes before you went in.
Don't drive like an ass hat and play nice and you wont get flagged.
One flag for being hit is usually only a stop and go talking to.
If you act like a fool and come in with attitude,of course they will treat you with an iron hand.
Cool down and remember what this is all about.

Manny.
Elmo's revenge.

yeah, because there are no cheaters in that other series are there Dude?  no miatas dominating the finishes, no cheater e36s?  please, get a grip.

glad you got to try Lemons, sorry to see you go.  but please just go.  go away. far, far away.

you want some cheese with that whine, Sally?  get a grip.

we've done CMP plenty of times, and usually don't have any contact or flags.  maybe the problem is in the mirror.

and i'll tell you what...if you get called in, it's b/c someone saw what happened.  fi you don't get called in, it's b/c no one saw what happened.

i don't think you have any idea what ther hell you're talking about.  do you know Jay, Nick, or Phil personally?

there is no arguing about flags.  the rules are very clear...any off, any contact is a BF.  Period.

It is possible to have more then 4 black flags. If your transponder stops working, you get a BF, but it does not count against your 4. The BF is how the track notifies you.

It was many races back and even the best drivers occasionally have incidents.  If you have a legitimate gripe, feel free to voice it in a rational adult manner. 

If you want to try and start flinging crap at other teams then by all means GTFO.

Your last line there makes it pretty clear to me that you do not "get it"  You want to be a "real" racer.  Good for you, plenty of places to do that.  But Lemons is about making fun of all you types who take it too seriously while having some fun ourselves.

Lighten up, put on a cheerleader costume and change your perspective a bit. 

the same guys but we have a couple of different cars.  that car was being driven by some other guys on our team that day.  i was in an MR2.

but you know what?  when that happened we didn't bitch and moan about it.  even very good drivers (which i never claimed we were) make mistakes.  the question is whether you're going to own up to it or whether you're going to whine about it.

Ok folks, fair warning.  I have no problem with a discussion of the event and as long as Jay or Nick are ok leaving it up then up it will stay.

But personal attacks, rude comments towards other teams are just getting deleted.  Keep it civil and act like adults.

Scumacher - I am sorry, low blow.  The guys right.  Just ease off on the guys that may have a potential argument. Our team has never come out to win, just to be on the track.

We are the same guys and we wear that roll with pride.  We are on our 11th race and about 20th car entry.  We have also volunteered at a race  and do know Jay and Co. personally having hung out with them with dinner and drinks a few times. 

I can personally attest to: they are more gear heads than me, you, and most of the people who show up.  They know more general information about cars than me, you, and most of the people who show up.  Jay is a racer and has been in more races than me, you, and most of the people who show up. 

Black flags are called in from the corner workers (except for those that are for speeding in the pits and fueling areas).  Jay and Co. have absolutely no control of what is or is not called in.  The workers are given instructions as to what to look for and then sent to thier corners.  Penalties are called in over a radio to race control (and black flag station) where it is then relayed to the organizers black flag area via an IM.  Once it is called in, you are going to come in and it's logged.  When you are stopped in the black area, will be the first time in this process that the organizers have any control.

Now that everyone has calmed down I can put on my other hat and give my 2 cents.

Many people tried to talk us out of racing our car because it was too nice to risk the damage (meh)

My drivers had one rule, preserve the car.  Hey, guess what? no wrecks, noone going 2 or 4 off to "avoid a wreck"   You avoid the wreck by giving up the space early on.  Getting into a dogfight in a turn for a single position in an endurance race is just foolhardy. 

Folks who come with the mentality of sprints drivers and want to mix it up are going to end up in trouble.  There's a reason that alot of newbs dont get black flaged, because they are so scared out there they wont get near another car even if it means giving up a postion.  Perhaps some of the "real racers" out there can learn a thing or 2 from them.

If you want to do "real racing" for cheap check out your local dirt tracks.  Lemons isnt just about cars on a track, its about people, its about the party, its about the spectacle.  If you take that away its just NASA/SCCA with crappy cars, or Chumpcar.  I have no interest in that.  It is the ability for the series to not take itself too seriously that has made it great and more importantly kept it from being choked off with too many rules.

If you aren't having fun, dont do it, I will back you up on that 100%.  This isnt for everyone.  The series is pretty clear about what it is and what it isnt, not much has changed over the years.  So evaluate your desires and if it doesnt meet them move on, no shame in that, this aint everyones cup of tea.

Xceler8X forgive me for not quoting, its too time consuming so hopefully my comments will find the right context.

Things are and always have been very clear, 2 off is a black flag.  There's no reason to be 2 off.  What other series' allow is not the point.  Same goes for contact.  I, for one, am very happy that this is not the rolling demo derby it used to be back in the day. 
And a thing to consider, in context with the title of the thread, the greed is all on the part of the insurance man, as are many of the rules.  I cannot even begin to fathom what it must cost to insure events like this and if a firm hand is not kept to prevent it from becoming a hoon fest then the rates skyrocket and you dont have "cheap" racing anymore.

It is not impossible to avoid contact and avoid going 2 off, its just the fact, it can be done.

Also as previously stated, Jay and Co have ZERO to do will calling the flags.  Only the enforcement of them.  There were problems at Summit with bad flagging and Jay read the flaggers the riot act.  He does try to keep things going in our favor.
The only words out of your mouth when you come in for BF should be "Im sorry, it wont happen again" if you try to make your case, no matter how politely you do it, they will come down on you, always has been, always will be.

On BABE...let's make a more realistic comparo, since noone is stopping anyone because they aren't having fun (although you can be penalized in other ways for it)  But if the organizer of the event removed me from the event because my car was unsafe or I was being unsafe then no I wouldn't be upset, because he is doing what he has to do to protect his business and his interests.   (and I highly recommend everyone here doing BABE at least once, crapcans on a closed track with support vehicles and help is for wusses, crapcans on the open road is where the real stupidity is at)

Bottom line and I'm not trying to give anyone a hard time about this, but most of the rules are set by the guys who write the insurance policy.  You can be darned sure they also come around to spot check the enforcement of those rules so Jay has to be on his toes at all times.  If no one will write the insurance, none of us are gonna play.  Jay has to do everything he can to protect that insurance policy.  To be honest I can't even imagine the hoops he had to jump through to get one in the first place.  They must have laughed him out of the office the first time or 2 he tried.