Topic: t-stat
I am looking for advice/suggestions on running without a t-stat in our e30. We have a little debate going on within the team on the pluses/minuses of running stat-less and would like some more learned feedback.
Thanks
The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Tech → t-stat
I am looking for advice/suggestions on running without a t-stat in our e30. We have a little debate going on within the team on the pluses/minuses of running stat-less and would like some more learned feedback.
Thanks
Cut the guts out, but leave the outer ring and bridge. It will give the right flow restriction without risking sticking closed.
I debated this on our E30 and have decided to keep running a t-stat. The general consensus when I asked about this is that if you want to do anything, cut the center out so it still restricts flow and can keep the water in the radiator long enough to cool off. Don't just remove it altogether.
I replaced the t-stat on our car 4 races ago and it has run cool as a cucumber since, even at the Arse-Sweat race. I know this is risking overheating the car if the t-stat sticks closed, but so far, so good.
Cut the guts out, but leave the outer ring and bridge. It will give the right flow restriction without risking sticking closed.
+1
My $.02 We ran our 2.3 mustang without a thermostat at Eagles Canyon this summer when it was 100+ outside and would start to get hot if you pushed it hard. We put a stocker T-stat (192 degree I think?) back in it and the temperature gauage stayed right near the bottom of the dial where it should be. I never bought into all that crap before, but now I have all the proof I'll ever need.
EFI cars need to be at the correct operating temp to run correctly. If it never gets up to temp, it will always run in warm-up mode. This is usually open loop and very rich, you will have poor performance and waste fuel.
Thanks for the help guys
EFI cars need to be at the correct operating temp to run correctly. If it never gets up to temp, it will always run in warm-up mode. This is usually open loop and very rich, you will have poor performance and waste fuel.
Very true. We witnessed a team's car with poor performance partly because they removed the sender for the stock temp gauge and replaced it with an aftermarket one. The ECU never knew the car was up to temp and it ran in the open loop mode all day.
For everyone worried about your t-stat failing...you do know you can buy one from FailSafe that will stick in the open position if it fails right?
A guy on our team was all gung ho for using a thermostat that twists to open instead of just using a spring to open. He swears by them and we ran one in our SBC without issue.
We have had the best luck running a T-stat blank. They make them for most cars...but its more Lemons to attack your T-stat with your favortie cutting tool I thinks
All I've ever run is short tracks, but the SBC and SBF's run very well @ 190* - 200* with an appropriate sized washer drilled @ 5/8". The most I've ever run is 100 laps, but it always seemed to work just fine!
We just run a 180* t-stat and a big stock radiator. Engine warms up quickly, then temp is always 180-185*. The elec fan comes on at 200*, if the car sits still.
FWIW.
No race car should ever need a thermostat. If it runs too cool, tape off part of the radiator.
The 'theory' of slowing the water down so it can cool off is bunk. It's an old wives tale mixed with poor understanding of the physics involved.
High flow rates improve the thermal transfer and prevent localized nucleate boiling in the head. If allowed to stand too long the nucleate boiling becomes an air pocket effectively preventing the water from reaching the metal and you get hot spots. That leads to pinging which leads to melting parts.
Thought exercise: If the water entering the engine is at 140 degrees because it spent a long time in the radiator and the water leaving the engine is at 200 degrees is your engine all at the same temperature? Do you think the front cylinders are running cooler than the rear? Think this is good for some reason?
The SAE papers are full of work on slow flow cooling attempts, intentional nucleate boiling systems and the horrible failures from trying this in real world situations. One easy to read book available for $15 or so from amazon is this one http://www.amazon.com/Engine-Cooling-Sy … mp;sr=1-10 but for some reason the current price is absurd...
I understand what you're saying, but RX-7s overheat if you remove the thermostat, and blocking off some of the radiator is NOT a solution. Cutting the guts out of the thermostat works excellent. Why mess with success?
I will note that I neglected to mention that you must block or remove the bypass system if your thermostat includes the bypass block-off valve or as you indicate, it will very likely overheat.
Do not run your E30 without a thermostat. It does not have the typical cooling system of most cars. Notice the third hose? It allows coolant to circulate even if the radiator is not needed. As a 20 year BMW Master Technician - don't do it.
Do not run your E30 without a thermostat. It does not have the typical cooling system of most cars. Notice the third hose? It allows coolant to circulate even if the radiator is not needed. As a 20 year BMW Master Technician - don't do it.
Well that certainly makes me feel better about my decision.
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