1 (edited by Team Infinniti 2010-10-27 05:07 PM)

Topic: Chump car kill switch location Lemons legal?

Hello, long time lurker , first time poster and used chump car driver/owner, a J30 infiniti .

We just got our "accepted" email (new years) and now are wondering what changes we need to make for our first attempt at Lemons, namely  the kill switch. It is currently hooked up per the rules, painted red and marked but it is mounted on the drive shaft tunnel next to the driver, easily accessible from either window or the driver.

Will this fly?

Homestead Chump 5th-Sebring 6th-PBIR Lemons 9th - Charlotte Chump  CrashnBurn 9th
Sebring 6th again -NOLA Chump 1st -PBIR Chump Trans Fail 16th
Daytona 11th - Sebring 6th - Atlanta Motor Speedway 2nd - Road Atlanta Trans Fail 61st-Road Atlanta 5th
Daytona 13th - Charlotte 9th - Sebring 2nd-Charlotte 25th broken brakes - Road Atlanta 14 10th-Daytona 14  58th- Humid TT 19th Judges' Choice!

Re: Chump car kill switch location Lemons legal?

from the rules:

The switch should be located on the cowl; or on the outside edge of the dash near the driver's-side window opening; or on the deck at the base of the rear windshield.

The best way to check if yours is ok is to take pics and email it to Jay and Nick.  My guess is that if something is horribly wrong and someone has to turn of the car they won't want to crawl that far inside to shut it off.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
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Re: Chump car kill switch location Lemons legal?

Cowl front is inaccessible, cowl/deck in the rear is directly above the stock gas tank& filler neck,dash mounting on the drivers side will require a rewire using 6 or so feet(3ft each way) of additional wires to cause troubles.

I will snap some pics when I get a chance but for now I just wanted to hear from some experienced  people. Thanks

Homestead Chump 5th-Sebring 6th-PBIR Lemons 9th - Charlotte Chump  CrashnBurn 9th
Sebring 6th again -NOLA Chump 1st -PBIR Chump Trans Fail 16th
Daytona 11th - Sebring 6th - Atlanta Motor Speedway 2nd - Road Atlanta Trans Fail 61st-Road Atlanta 5th
Daytona 13th - Charlotte 9th - Sebring 2nd-Charlotte 25th broken brakes - Road Atlanta 14 10th-Daytona 14  58th- Humid TT 19th Judges' Choice!

Re: Chump car kill switch location Lemons legal?

yeah, honestly Im surprised the interior kill switch passed tech at chump.  Every racing organization in the world (other than Chump I guess) wants them where a corner worker can get to it without obstruction, having to reach to your center console doesnt really meet that criteria.   Exterior of the car is always best, if there's a fire noone is reaching in the car to kill power.

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

Re: Chump car kill switch location Lemons legal?

I think what you're calling a kill switch is the driver cutoff switch so the driver, while belted, can shut the car off if you're not using a column key switch from stock.

FWIW, we have our driver kill switch and starter button on the tunnel for the driver, and we also have the kill switch on the cowl. Them's the rules.

There IS an option for you, though. well, maybe.

I've seen remote kill switch and fire system switches are are nothing more than a cable and housing that run to a remote location-- they are PULL switches-- pull the cable and it turns the key-- If you are that against running some new wire (safety so budget exempt you could argue), you may ask it that is an acceptable option.

http://www.rennline.com/images/EL21-1.jpg

http://www.rennline.com/Switches-Remote … ducts/277/

Re: Chump car kill switch location Lemons legal?

Team Infinniti wrote:

Cowl front is inaccessible, cowl/deck in the rear is directly above the stock gas tank& filler neck,dash mounting on the drivers side will require a rewire using 6 or so feet(3ft each way) of additional wires to cause troubles.

I will snap some pics when I get a chance but for now I just wanted to hear from some experienced  people. Thanks

Definitely will need pics because in my car if it was there the safety crew would have to dive through a window to get to the tunnel.

You should be able to run the two switches in line so you would have the one easy for the driver to use and the one easy for someone outside of the car to use.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
Facebook Page

Re: Chump car kill switch location Lemons legal?

The Chump rules for 2011 specified its location be centralized in either the dash or console area, it can be argued that it is actually more accessible being in the center next to the driver, extinguisher and to any side window (no glass in this 4 door car)

Thanks for the remote idea but that will only add to expenses and unnecessary complexity to a basic switch.
We still have the keys in the column for the driver, the master switch is the one in discussion.

If the pics I eventually supply prove its current location is not going to fly, is a passenger side ,front cage down leg, window height, at  approximately where the passenger outside mirror was, a acceptable relocation?
This would be easiest to do with the way the main power harness is currently designed.

Homestead Chump 5th-Sebring 6th-PBIR Lemons 9th - Charlotte Chump  CrashnBurn 9th
Sebring 6th again -NOLA Chump 1st -PBIR Chump Trans Fail 16th
Daytona 11th - Sebring 6th - Atlanta Motor Speedway 2nd - Road Atlanta Trans Fail 61st-Road Atlanta 5th
Daytona 13th - Charlotte 9th - Sebring 2nd-Charlotte 25th broken brakes - Road Atlanta 14 10th-Daytona 14  58th- Humid TT 19th Judges' Choice!

8 (edited by Spank 2010-10-27 07:16 PM)

Re: Chump car kill switch location Lemons legal?

I would have to respectfully disagree with the inside-the-car central positioning-- I would not want to reach inside of a burning car to shut off power to stop an electric fuel pump from spewing more fuel onto a fire-- or have to crawl on my belly in fuel and then into an upside down car to kill power. I'm sure we could all go back and forth on what's more logical based on a given scenario (kinda like with window net vs arm restraints and no window net)-- but it's their playground and their rules.

Team Infinniti wrote:

If the pics I eventually supply prove its current location is not going to fly, is a passenger side ,front cage down leg, window height, at  approximately where the passenger outside mirror was, a acceptable relocation?
This would be easiest to do with the way the main power harness is currently designed.

I've seen others like this pass tech. But as someone has suggested, your best bet is to send the pic of your suggested location to Nick@24hourslflemons.com

We can speculate all we want and offer advice, but they have the say.

Re: Chump car kill switch location Lemons legal?

I know it could be debated either way, pics soon...

Not like it matters but with years of dirt tracking I feel nude with no window net and any car raced with electric fuel pump is hooked up to cut automatically when a stall occurs.

Homestead Chump 5th-Sebring 6th-PBIR Lemons 9th - Charlotte Chump  CrashnBurn 9th
Sebring 6th again -NOLA Chump 1st -PBIR Chump Trans Fail 16th
Daytona 11th - Sebring 6th - Atlanta Motor Speedway 2nd - Road Atlanta Trans Fail 61st-Road Atlanta 5th
Daytona 13th - Charlotte 9th - Sebring 2nd-Charlotte 25th broken brakes - Road Atlanta 14 10th-Daytona 14  58th- Humid TT 19th Judges' Choice!

Re: Chump car kill switch location Lemons legal?

Throw a pull cable on it, we bought ours at tractor supply.  Cheap, simple. You'll pass tech.  You won't with it where it is.

Re: Chump car kill switch location Lemons legal?

I mounted mine on the drivers side of the dash on the down tube from the roof, its accesible from the outside and for driver. Its also right next to where I mounted the ignition switch which helps to remind me to shut it off also.

2010, 26th @ CMP, 2011, 10th & 5th at CMP, 2012? (MIA), 2013 Spring CMP, 53rd, 2013 Fall CMP 44th, 2014 Barber 14th, 2014 CMP 46th, 2015 CMP 57th, 2015 CMP 80th, 2016 CMP 16th, 3rd in B class, Winner Judges choice, and First car under 2.0 liter Alex's lemon aide stand winner. 2017 WRL, Road Atlanta 43rd, 2017 NCM 9th O/A , 1st in B class, 2018 CMP 13th O/A 3rd in Class B

Re: Chump car kill switch location Lemons legal?

Ours is mounted like Steve above, right where the A/C vent used to be, right by the drivers window.  Passed all inspections, and my understanding is that within a few years this is where most sanctioning bodies will soon require placement.

Rich DeFrancisco
Chump Change Racing aka "The Bridesmaids"
1986 BMW 535im
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Re: Chump car kill switch location Lemons legal?

We went the dual switch route to be compliant with both series. One is on the center tunnel for the driver, and the other is outside on the sail panel on the passenger side.

Re: Chump car kill switch location Lemons legal?

OK I shot a quick vid of the item in question, turn down your speakers it was a noisy shop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGwBq5xL6Q0

Homestead Chump 5th-Sebring 6th-PBIR Lemons 9th - Charlotte Chump  CrashnBurn 9th
Sebring 6th again -NOLA Chump 1st -PBIR Chump Trans Fail 16th
Daytona 11th - Sebring 6th - Atlanta Motor Speedway 2nd - Road Atlanta Trans Fail 61st-Road Atlanta 5th
Daytona 13th - Charlotte 9th - Sebring 2nd-Charlotte 25th broken brakes - Road Atlanta 14 10th-Daytona 14  58th- Humid TT 19th Judges' Choice!

Re: Chump car kill switch location Lemons legal?

Team Infinniti wrote:

OK I shot a quick vid of the item in question, turn down your speakers it was a noisy shop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGwBq5xL6Q0

Sorry, I just dont see that as being easily accessible by a corner worker in case of a fire/rollover.  Only way it could be worse is to put it in the engine bay.  Somewhere they can reach it from the outside of the car is best IMHO.

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

Re: Chump car kill switch location Lemons legal?

Leave that switch there, and put a second one in series with it.  Mount the second one on the roll cage by the passenger window.  Problem solved.

FWIW, I thought Chump required two kill switches.

Dave Heinig - Schumacher Taxi Service
coROLLa - 2 time loser, RWB MR2 - 5 time loser
The Craptation - IOE WINNER! Lemons South Spring 2010
Crown Vic - Please God Don't Ever Make Me Go Through That Again

Re: Chump car kill switch location Lemons legal?

Not required, allowed to transition from 2010 to 2011 rulebook.. I think

I was studying things today and can easily move the center switch to the roll cage passenger window with nothing more then a welded tab and a longer batt cable.

Homestead Chump 5th-Sebring 6th-PBIR Lemons 9th - Charlotte Chump  CrashnBurn 9th
Sebring 6th again -NOLA Chump 1st -PBIR Chump Trans Fail 16th
Daytona 11th - Sebring 6th - Atlanta Motor Speedway 2nd - Road Atlanta Trans Fail 61st-Road Atlanta 5th
Daytona 13th - Charlotte 9th - Sebring 2nd-Charlotte 25th broken brakes - Road Atlanta 14 10th-Daytona 14  58th- Humid TT 19th Judges' Choice!

Re: Chump car kill switch location Lemons legal?

Then you will no longer be legal for Chump, which requires a driver-reachable switch.

That's why a lot of us just opted for two switches.

Lemons South 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Spring 2009 - Fail, Lemons Detroit(ish) 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Fall 2009 - Fail, Lamest Day 2009 - Fail, Miami 2010 (Chump) - 2nd!, Sebring 2010 (Chump) - Fail, Cuba 2010 - Crew Chief, Roebling 2011 (Chump) - 8th!, Sebring 2011(Chump) - 19th!

Re: Chump car kill switch location Lemons legal?

wow. totally not legal. like everyone else here, I'll reiterate; a kill switch that is not easily accessible by safety personnel is simply not a useful kill switch. I'm also not sure how your cowl is inaccessible. you mean, by the driver? because I'm sure a corner worker or just about anyone outside your car can reach a kill switch on the cowl.

Rule3.23 wrote:

: Master Electrical Kill Switch:  All cars must have a racing-type master electrical kill switch. The control for this switch should be red; the OFF position should be clearly indicated; the switch should be easily accessible from outside the car; and the switch should be clearly marked by a three-inch or larger lightning-bolt symbol. Both the main battery circuit and the ignition circuit must be interrupted by the kill switch (if you don't do that, the engine may still run off the alternator even after the battery circuit is disconnected). The switch should be located on the cowl; or on the outside edge of the dash near the driver's-side window opening; or on the deck at the base of the rear windshield.

fwiw, you really shouldn't be complaining about any costs involved in a safety item, that is not limited by any budgetary constrains. If your ass isn't worth $30-40 in wire or for a second switch, you probably should find another sport.

All that being said, be safe, see you out there...

20 (edited by Team Infinniti 2010-10-30 04:48 AM)

Re: Chump car kill switch location Lemons legal?

Relax Serj this thread is to figure out how  to handle minor safety differences between the rules of 2 series, not a fight.

The front cowl area is not accessible for switch installation and the rear cowl is not safe because of the stock fuel tanks location .Passenger window roll cage mounting sounds legal and accessible by safety crew.

Homestead Chump 5th-Sebring 6th-PBIR Lemons 9th - Charlotte Chump  CrashnBurn 9th
Sebring 6th again -NOLA Chump 1st -PBIR Chump Trans Fail 16th
Daytona 11th - Sebring 6th - Atlanta Motor Speedway 2nd - Road Atlanta Trans Fail 61st-Road Atlanta 5th
Daytona 13th - Charlotte 9th - Sebring 2nd-Charlotte 25th broken brakes - Road Atlanta 14 10th-Daytona 14  58th- Humid TT 19th Judges' Choice!

Re: Chump car kill switch location Lemons legal?

We had two switches on the Craptation, one reachable by the driver and one from outside the car.  We will now be doing that with all of our cars.  There are reasons the rules are written the way they are in each series.  I don't want to be strapped into a car upside down on fire and not be able to reach the kill switch.  At the same time, if I'm not conscious, I want the track folks to be able to reach it easily.  Two switches solves both problems.

Dave Heinig - Schumacher Taxi Service
coROLLa - 2 time loser, RWB MR2 - 5 time loser
The Craptation - IOE WINNER! Lemons South Spring 2010
Crown Vic - Please God Don't Ever Make Me Go Through That Again

Re: Chump car kill switch location Lemons legal?

Team Infinniti wrote:

Relax Serj this thread is to figure out how  to handle minor safety differences between the rules of 2 series, not a fight.

The front cowl area is not accessible for switch installation and the rear cowl is not safe because of the stock fuel tanks location .Passenger window roll cage mounting sounds legal and accessible by safety crew.

Hey, No worries smile

It's just that one of the biggest emphasis in this series other than having fun has been safety. I noticed your complaint about putting extra money into a safety component and it ruffles my feathers a bit. Harbor freight has an Inverter wiring kit and a number of basic kill switches that'll more than adequately take care of your needs in this instance. It's one thing to put the money into safety systems that are supposed to be "safe" and they wind up not be so, and another to not want to pony up in the first place.

Like i said before at the end of my post(really meant to lighten the mood) was be safe, have fun, and see ya out there!

Re: Chump car kill switch location Lemons legal?

My switch resides right next to the point where the a pillar and dash meet, horizontal in a formet vent-hole.. Its perfect for the driver to get in and turn, activate in an emergency (clearly marked on the cage AND door,  as well as commented on positively by the tech inspector at arse sweat!

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1989 Daihatsu Charade

24

Re: Chump car kill switch location Lemons legal?

JBgotM wrote:

We went the dual switch route to be compliant with both series. One is on the center tunnel for the driver, and the other is outside on the sail panel on the passenger side.

We did the same on both the coROLLa and the Craptation.  We need to add the driver kill switch to the Miata still...

Jer / Schumacher Taxi Service
2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)

Re: Chump car kill switch location Lemons legal?

Same here on the dual switches, but our inside, center mounted switch is a simple toggle rather than a traditional kill switch.  The Chump staff OK'd it as long as it kills everything as is properly marked.

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'74 260Z
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